Zooming out a bit, all of this just serves to reinforce the idea that stressing backwards compatibility was a huge mistake. WOTC should've just been very upfront, with lots of advanced warning, that what was coming next wasn't intended to be directly compatible with 5E. They should've taken Colville's approach, with no sacred cows, and really done a complete redesign.
And they should've clearly and well in advance given notice on when 5E content was going to be sunsetted on DDB. (As well as offering some kind of discount or incentive for folks who'd bought the content here.)
Ultimately, all of this mess results from 1) wanting to make everyone happy (which they were never going to do anyway) and 2) poor, vague, and inconsistent communication.
It remains staggering to me how BADLY WOTC has screwed the pooch in the last 20 months or so.
You missed out the most important reason they've misled people over compatibility. They knew if they announced the end of 5e no one would have bought the last few books. This way people have continued buying on the promise of compatibility, only to have the rug pulled out from under them <2 weeks before switchover.
I have no reason to doubt that the content creators at WotC have worked to make the two rulesets compatible, probably with the best of intentions, and from what I've seen there's no reason the two can't exist side by side. It's a business decision by WotC\DnDBeyond to end support for the 2014 rules and force people to the new ruleset.
Zooming out a bit, all of this just serves to reinforce the idea that stressing backwards compatibility was a huge mistake. WOTC should've just been very upfront, with lots of advanced warning, that what was coming next wasn't intended to be directly compatible with 5E. They should've taken Colville's approach, with no sacred cows, and really done a complete redesign.
And they should've clearly and well in advance given notice on when 5E content was going to be sunsetted on DDB. (As well as offering some kind of discount or incentive for folks who'd bought the content here.)
Ultimately, all of this mess results from 1) wanting to make everyone happy (which they were never going to do anyway) and 2) poor, vague, and inconsistent communication.
It remains staggering to me how BADLY WOTC has screwed the pooch in the last 20 months or so.
You missed out the most important reason they've misled people over compatibility. They knew if they announced the end of 5e no one would have bought the last few books. This way people have continued buying on the promise of compatibility, only to have the rug pulled out from under them <2 weeks before switchover.
I have no reason to doubt that the content creators at WotC have worked to make the two rulesets compatible, probably with the best of intentions, and from what I've seen there's no reason the two can't exist side by side. It's a business decision by WotC\DnDBeyond to end support for the 2014 rules and force people to the new ruleset.
All they're doing is forcing folks to go back to Pen and Paper, or switch to a different source such as Roll20 and cancel their subscriptions here. They are shooting themselves in the foot if they follow their current course.
On a side note, I'm having problems trying to download pdfs of my characters. Keeps hanging up. Anyone else having the same problem??
WotC hasn't considered that these changes will break all our current DND Campaigns and the adventure books released before 2024. Campaigns are designed for the rules, items and spells we have now and not the 2024 changes.
DND Campaigns often takes years to come to a conclusion and forcing massive changes to a players spells and magic items mid campaign will break game balance and anger thousands of people playing dnd 5e as they will feel their characters have been "forcefully" changed without their permission. Some players bought specfic spells that fit the roleplay and back story of their charactors and you are taking that away from them.
Your taking away spells and items that players and DM's have paid for and have been using for years. You are forcing changes to charactors we have created over the last 5+ years. Many DM'S and Campaigns carefully consider the spells and items provided to their players and now your destroying all of that to try force us to buy the new 2024 books.
I paid for all the current items and spells from the books released before 2024. I own almost every single book on this site and had a master subscription for 5 years. You are significantly changing and removing all the content I bought without my permission and without any prior warning or knowledge. I haven't recieved a email that your taking away or significantly changing a huge amount of the content I paid for' nor have i been offered a refund or compensation for it.
Other than this thread there's been no communication about the huge amount of content we are about to lose access too and its likely that 90% of community don't check these forums. Just wait till the changes roll out and thousands of people will be flooding these forums asking whats happened to their spells and items. There's going to be thousands upon thousands of players who will be logging in one day to play their Campaigns only to suddenly find out their spells & items are gone. This will break the trust of most of the community.
We were given assurances that we wouldn't lose access to older content we bought with releases of new rules or editions. Myself and I'm sure thousands of others feel they have been completely lied too.
You are not allowed to take that content from me. I do not give permission for you to revoke access to content i paid for myself and the people i play with using my master tier subscription. If you do this I may as well cancel my sub and never buy a single book from you again as you can't be trusted to not take away the digital books i bought over the last 5 years!
You could easily keep all the spells and items in a optional toggle of 2014 ruleset for all our character sheets and by not giving that option you are revealing that you CHOSE to take this away from the thousands of people who purchased these items. You are choosing to deprive us of content we paid for across many books in a effort to force us to buy the new rule books. The reality is people will refuse to buy the new books because your removing huge amounts of content from books released over the last decade.
Give the new 2024 rules spells & items a new ID's and leave the current content we bought alone or prepare to lose your community.
Why should we ever trust you enough to buy a single book from you again if you will always choose to remove content from previous books we bought when you want to sell us a new one?
I will never buy another book from you or carry on my subscription if you go through with this as why buy books if you can delete content from them whenever you want?
I specifically use D&DB for character creation easy link to source books. You are screwing over your members. I stuck around through the last wave of mass subscription cancels and now I massively regret it. You are especially screwing people who purchased the source books in bulk. It be one thing if I were losing the feature for a few books, but for my FULL library. I feel like an idiot for being duped. Jokes on me trying to be high tech. Canceling my preorder and master level subscription. You suck.
It does suck to lose access to the spells, but who is actually interested in using the older version of those spells? The vast majority very much needed the changes. Could just treat it as errata, no?
A lot of people are currently playing 2014 rules and are using the current versions of spells. A lot of them have been badly nerfed and are all but worthless in 2024 (looking at you, Spiritual Weapon) and people don't want them.
Not to be that guy, but "without any prior warning or knowledge" isn't actually true.
This thread would not exist if that were true.
The problem is that very short lead time to the change, and the lack of transparency and clear answers in the information we do have.
As well as not giving owners of 2014 content easy, intuitive ways to choose that content.
Technically, yes they've given us "prior warning", but do you really think <2 weeks warning for something that makes DnDBeyond unusable for many campaigns is adequate time, especially when all prior communication (such as it is) was that both rulesets would be coexist side by side.
As I said in the post you quoted: it's a very short lead time. Communication has been poor. And there's little or no evident care for loyal gamers who've invested hundreds of dollars in content.
If we're homebrewing 2014 spells, how do we handle spells given by subclass features? We can add a homebrew feat to give the 2014 spell, but there's nothing we can do to take the 2024 version out of the spellbook. For some of the players at my table, this is going to be really confusing, and something I definitely want to avoid. I did look at homebrewing the subclass to update the spell references in it, but you can only duplicate core subclasses, not any of the ones found in Tasha's or other books.
As far as I can tell that means that even doing the official suggestion of copying 2014 content into homebrew, there is no way for me to avoid the forced update to 2024 versions of spells granted by a subclass? I'm looking for example at Sleep on the Redemption Paladin, which has noticeable differences between 2014 and 2024.
From a 2014 to 2024 standpoint, what was the process that went into deciding not to offer blanket legacy versions of spells alongside their 2024 counterparts, if they were changed?
This is probably the biggest change I can see where older content is just being updated wholesale, and the solution is "Create a Homebrew" version of it if you want the older version.
Especially since creating homebrew items often does not work as intended with your character sheet.
Yea I'm unsubscribed now. All the conveniences my membership offers will be useless. If I have to homebrew all my spells and items back in I'll just go dicecloud. Hell I might just finally convince my server to go Pathfinder since it'll be easier than reteaching everyone and reworking all the other homebrew we have integrated into our game.
This is bullshit. If I had known this was going to happen I never would have made a purchase here. I would have purchased on Roll20 where I get to keep what I bought.
Joining the see of "Unsubscribes". Its so disappointing and just reaffirms my decision to move back to pen and paper and physical books. This might actually be the move that gets me to try and convince folks to shift over to Pathfinder, cause I have zero interest in purchasing 5.5 at this point.
If we're homebrewing 2014 spells, how do we handle spells given by subclass features? We can add a homebrew feat to give the 2014 spell, but there's nothing we can do to take the 2024 version out of the spellbook. For some of the players at my table, this is going to be really confusing, and something I definitely want to avoid. I did look at homebrewing the subclass to update the spell references in it, but you can only duplicate core subclasses, not any of the ones found in Tasha's or other books.
As far as I can tell that means that even doing the official suggestion of copying 2014 content into homebrew, there is no way for me to avoid the forced update to 2024 versions of spells granted by a subclass? I'm looking for example at Sleep on the Redemption Paladin, which has noticeable differences between 2014 and 2024.
The only workaround given (unacceptable as it is) is to homebrew the subclass as well, replacing the new spells with the old.
You should be able to copy ones from Tasha's etc as well though. Under "Select an existing Subclass as a template:" the drop down should list "Core Rules" with all the PHB subclasses, then "Expanded Rules" with the ones from Tasha's (and probably others), then "Critical Roles" with their subclasses.
If it's not there for you, do you own Tasha's yourself, or is it shared through a campaign? As far as I know you can only homebrew based on features you personally own.
I just cancelled my subscription. This is truly a despicable thing DND Beyond is doing to the 2014 5E players and DMs. I hope this gets fixed or I'm done with them forever.
If we're homebrewing 2014 spells, how do we handle spells given by subclass features? We can add a homebrew feat to give the 2014 spell, but there's nothing we can do to take the 2024 version out of the spellbook. For some of the players at my table, this is going to be really confusing, and something I definitely want to avoid. I did look at homebrewing the subclass to update the spell references in it, but you can only duplicate core subclasses, not any of the ones found in Tasha's or other books.
As far as I can tell that means that even doing the official suggestion of copying 2014 content into homebrew, there is no way for me to avoid the forced update to 2024 versions of spells granted by a subclass? I'm looking for example at Sleep on the Redemption Paladin, which has noticeable differences between 2014 and 2024.
The only workaround given (unacceptable as it is) is to homebrew the subclass as well, replacing the new spells with the old.
You should be able to copy ones from Tasha's etc as well though. Under "Select an existing Subclass as a template:" the drop down should list "Core Rules" with all the PHB subclasses, then "Expanded Rules" with the ones from Tasha's (and probably others), then "Critical Roles" with their subclasses.
If it's not there for you, do you own Tasha's yourself, or is it shared through a campaign? As far as I know you can only homebrew based on features you personally own.
Ah nuts; I own the core three, but we shared book costs out in my last campaign because I couldn't afford them all myself. That'd be why I can't copy it into homebrew then, it's only shared with me. Thank you for the explanation!
This is bullshit. If I had known this was going to happen I never would have made a purchase here. I would have purchased on Roll20 where I get to keep what I bought.
Has Roll20 announced yet how this change will impact their use of the 2014 Core Rules content? As far as I know, they have not.
I saw something on the roll20 subreddit where a staff member confirmed they would keep current rules usable.
Just leave the 2014 stuff on there. There are a lot of people who are upset by these forced changes. My group doesn’t want to change systems mid campaign. Just leave 2014 and add 2024 as well. Let us choose! Don’t force us to make changes we don’t want.
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You missed out the most important reason they've misled people over compatibility. They knew if they announced the end of 5e no one would have bought the last few books. This way people have continued buying on the promise of compatibility, only to have the rug pulled out from under them <2 weeks before switchover.
I have no reason to doubt that the content creators at WotC have worked to make the two rulesets compatible, probably with the best of intentions, and from what I've seen there's no reason the two can't exist side by side. It's a business decision by WotC\DnDBeyond to end support for the 2014 rules and force people to the new ruleset.
All they're doing is forcing folks to go back to Pen and Paper, or switch to a different source such as Roll20 and cancel their subscriptions here. They are shooting themselves in the foot if they follow their current course.
On a side note, I'm having problems trying to download pdfs of my characters. Keeps hanging up. Anyone else having the same problem??
WotC hasn't considered that these changes will break all our current DND Campaigns and the adventure books released before 2024. Campaigns are designed for the rules, items and spells we have now and not the 2024 changes.
DND Campaigns often takes years to come to a conclusion and forcing massive changes to a players spells and magic items mid campaign will break game balance and anger thousands of people playing dnd 5e as they will feel their characters have been "forcefully" changed without their permission. Some players bought specfic spells that fit the roleplay and back story of their charactors and you are taking that away from them.
Your taking away spells and items that players and DM's have paid for and have been using for years. You are forcing changes to charactors we have created over the last 5+ years. Many DM'S and Campaigns carefully consider the spells and items provided to their players and now your destroying all of that to try force us to buy the new 2024 books.
I paid for all the current items and spells from the books released before 2024. I own almost every single book on this site and had a master subscription for 5 years. You are significantly changing and removing all the content I bought without my permission and without any prior warning or knowledge. I haven't recieved a email that your taking away or significantly changing a huge amount of the content I paid for' nor have i been offered a refund or compensation for it.
Other than this thread there's been no communication about the huge amount of content we are about to lose access too and its likely that 90% of community don't check these forums. Just wait till the changes roll out and thousands of people will be flooding these forums asking whats happened to their spells and items. There's going to be thousands upon thousands of players who will be logging in one day to play their Campaigns only to suddenly find out their spells & items are gone. This will break the trust of most of the community.
We were given assurances that we wouldn't lose access to older content we bought with releases of new rules or editions. Myself and I'm sure thousands of others feel they have been completely lied too.
You are not allowed to take that content from me. I do not give permission for you to revoke access to content i paid for myself and the people i play with using my master tier subscription. If you do this I may as well cancel my sub and never buy a single book from you again as you can't be trusted to not take away the digital books i bought over the last 5 years!
You could easily keep all the spells and items in a optional toggle of 2014 ruleset for all our character sheets and by not giving that option you are revealing that you CHOSE to take this away from the thousands of people who purchased these items. You are choosing to deprive us of content we paid for across many books in a effort to force us to buy the new rule books. The reality is people will refuse to buy the new books because your removing huge amounts of content from books released over the last decade.
Give the new 2024 rules spells & items a new ID's and leave the current content we bought alone or prepare to lose your community.
Why should we ever trust you enough to buy a single book from you again if you will always choose to remove content from previous books we bought when you want to sell us a new one?
I will never buy another book from you or carry on my subscription if you go through with this as why buy books if you can delete content from them whenever you want?
I specifically use D&DB for character creation easy link to source books. You are screwing over your members. I stuck around through the last wave of mass subscription cancels and now I massively regret it. You are especially screwing people who purchased the source books in bulk. It be one thing if I were losing the feature for a few books, but for my FULL library. I feel like an idiot for being duped. Jokes on me trying to be high tech. Canceling my preorder and master level subscription. You suck.
A lot of people are currently playing 2014 rules and are using the current versions of spells. A lot of them have been badly nerfed and are all but worthless in 2024 (looking at you, Spiritual Weapon) and people don't want them.
Not to be that guy, but "without any prior warning or knowledge" isn't actually true.
This thread would not exist if that were true.
The problem is that very short lead time to the change, and the lack of transparency and clear answers in the information we do have.
As well as not giving owners of 2014 content easy, intuitive ways to choose that content.
Unsubscribed. tyvm
I wonder what we will lose when the DMG & MM drop, I really hope they will find a better way to deal with this.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
Technically, yes they've given us "prior warning", but do you really think <2 weeks warning for something that makes DnDBeyond unusable for many campaigns is adequate time, especially when all prior communication (such as it is) was that both rulesets would be coexist side by side.
As I said in the post you quoted: it's a very short lead time. Communication has been poor. And there's little or no evident care for loyal gamers who've invested hundreds of dollars in content.
If we're homebrewing 2014 spells, how do we handle spells given by subclass features? We can add a homebrew feat to give the 2014 spell, but there's nothing we can do to take the 2024 version out of the spellbook. For some of the players at my table, this is going to be really confusing, and something I definitely want to avoid. I did look at homebrewing the subclass to update the spell references in it, but you can only duplicate core subclasses, not any of the ones found in Tasha's or other books.
As far as I can tell that means that even doing the official suggestion of copying 2014 content into homebrew, there is no way for me to avoid the forced update to 2024 versions of spells granted by a subclass? I'm looking for example at Sleep on the Redemption Paladin, which has noticeable differences between 2014 and 2024.
Especially since creating homebrew items often does not work as intended with your character sheet.
Yea I'm unsubscribed now. All the conveniences my membership offers will be useless. If I have to homebrew all my spells and items back in I'll just go dicecloud. Hell I might just finally convince my server to go Pathfinder since it'll be easier than reteaching everyone and reworking all the other homebrew we have integrated into our game.
This is bullshit. If I had known this was going to happen I never would have made a purchase here. I would have purchased on Roll20 where I get to keep what I bought.
Joining the see of "Unsubscribes". Its so disappointing and just reaffirms my decision to move back to pen and paper and physical books. This might actually be the move that gets me to try and convince folks to shift over to Pathfinder, cause I have zero interest in purchasing 5.5 at this point.
The only workaround given (unacceptable as it is) is to homebrew the subclass as well, replacing the new spells with the old.
You should be able to copy ones from Tasha's etc as well though. Under "Select an existing Subclass as a template:" the drop down should list "Core Rules" with all the PHB subclasses, then "Expanded Rules" with the ones from Tasha's (and probably others), then "Critical Roles" with their subclasses.
If it's not there for you, do you own Tasha's yourself, or is it shared through a campaign? As far as I know you can only homebrew based on features you personally own.
I just cancelled my subscription. This is truly a despicable thing DND Beyond is doing to the 2014 5E players and DMs. I hope this gets fixed or I'm done with them forever.
Ah nuts; I own the core three, but we shared book costs out in my last campaign because I couldn't afford them all myself. That'd be why I can't copy it into homebrew then, it's only shared with me. Thank you for the explanation!
I saw something on the roll20 subreddit where a staff member confirmed they would keep current rules usable.
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Just leave the 2014 stuff on there. There are a lot of people who are upset by these forced changes. My group doesn’t want to change systems mid campaign. Just leave 2014 and add 2024 as well. Let us choose! Don’t force us to make changes we don’t want.