I was wondering if any of you have information about the lore of death and the steps after a person goes to the after life into their final destination. And what are interesting things that could happen when a person dies.
Edit: if you got sources i can read to get more info i'd appreciate that as well.
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
In the Forgotten Realms, souls travel to is the city of Judgement, where it's decided what happens to your soul. Usually, a patron of your god (or whatever you worship) will arrive and do whatever it does with souls. Or a demon could steal your soul. Or a devil could offer you a deal. Faithless people were used to build a wall and eventually dissolved. Sometimes a traveling soul gets stuck in the astral plane or the Shadowfell and becomes a ghost.
But it's different in other worlds. Some have a one-size-fits-all afterlife, some skip the BS with the city of judgement and take a soul straight where it belongs. In Theros, while technically a MTG setting, the underworld is basically another place. People can have adventures there, often attempting (and sometimes succeeding) to escape.
I am currently running a campaign about adventurers that want to escape from the afterlife of their world and it's basically a vast ocean, full of soul eating monsters.
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You get a wonderfull view from the point of no return.
Forgotten realms is the current setting for dnd so that is what i was asking about so thanks for the info.
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Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
For Forgotten Realms, Wechselchrat gave a summary already, but I'll add to it a bit:
Faerunians are a largely polytheistic people, praying to several gods throughout their lives. A farmer might pray to Chauntea for crops to grow, and Talos to keep devastating storms at bay, for example. As they go through life, most Faeraunians will begin to "lean" towards one deity above the others. When they die, this is likely the deity that will take them in, as it is the one best aligned with their morals and ethics. Of course, paladins, clergy, and layworshipers will have a defined patron deity, and this is doubtless the deity who will take them in. Even those with a clear patron will acknowledge the other gods.
Species-specific pantheons (elves, gnomes, dwarves, etc) have their realms, and this is usually the destination of for the soul of that species. The pull to Arvandor (realm of the elven gods) is very strong for elves, for example.
Souls of the dead are also known as petitioners, and when they die, the majority go to the Fugue Plane, and wait for their god--or, more likely, a servitor/representative of that god--will come to collect them. A worshiper's soul will automatically recognize the agent of its own deity, and knows it needs to go with them. Agents can't take souls of worshipers of deities other than those they represent.
On the Fugue Plane are devils known as baatezu, and they have an agreement with Kelemvor, god of the dead, that they cannot trick or harm the waiting souls, but they can try to bargain with them. They want these souls so they can use them to create lemures, the lowest form of devil. Over time, the lemures can evolve into something more powerful. This isn't appealing to most souls, who would prefer to be with their deity, but for those who are pledged to an evil deity, or fear punishment, this can be a tempting offer. The success rate for the baatezu is fairly low, but still considered worth their time.
Within the Fugue Plane is the City of Judgement, home of Kelemvor and Jergal. While most souls wait around for their deity's agent to collect them, those who are Faithless or False (or those who's fate is simply more ambiguous) are compelled to enter the city. The Faithless are those who denied any faith (not atheism in the way we would think of it, as the existence of the gods is fact in Forgotten Realms, but more that they didn't acknowledge any of them beyond the fact they exist, and never paid any sort of homage), and the False intentionally betrayed a faith they believed in and to which they had made a personal commitment.
For the Faithless, the punishment is the same: you become mortar on the Wall, where you eventually dissolve. For the False, punishment varies depending on the severity of the crime. For some, the punishment is fairly light, such as escorting visiting baatezu or patrolling the city. Others are punished much more severely.
The Fugue Plane occasionally suffers from tanar'ri raids, a type of demon, who, unlike the baatezu, do not have a contract with Kelemvor. They create a portal from the Abyss and enter the Fugue Plane, ripping souls from the Wall and attempting to raid the city. Kelemvor and Jergal have soldiers who guard against these attacks, and the baatezu even help out ,as they are eager to take on their ancient enemy. These raids fortunately do not happen often, and if Kelemvor deems the tanar'ri are becoming too greedy, he will in turn send his army into the Abyss. This is rarely needed, however, and mostly serves to help keep tanar'ri attacks low.
So yeah, most souls go to their patron deity (which is either clearly defined, like for a priest, or the one they venerated most in life). For sources, regardless of what edition you play in, I recommend the Forgotten Realms 3.0 Campaign Setting Guide, Player's Guide to Faerun, and Ed Greenwood Presents: Eliminster's Forgotten Realms. You could also look up "petitioner" in the Forgotten Realms Wiki. I am always interested in afterlife stuff, myself, so I hope that helps!
I still feel it's BS that you can get away with a black eye for betraying your god but if you didn't worship them at all, in a live and let live way, you are sentenced to dissolving in a friggin wall. Like, I don't like gods, they're rough and coarse and get everywhere, so why can't they just let my friggin soul alone?
And then the gods of death wonder why people want to be Lichs. The nerve.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You get a wonderfull view from the point of no return.
I still feel it's BS that you can get away with a black eye for betraying your god but if you didn't worship them at all, in a live and let live way, you are sentenced to dissolving in a friggin wall. Like, I don't like gods, they're rough and coarse and get everywhere, so why can't they just let my friggin soul alone?
And then the gods of death wonder why people want to be Lichs. The nerve.
Not all of them get dissolved in the wall apparently, some are given the option to work in the city of judgement as well (assuming the site i found is creditable). As if you don't worship any god... where is the soul is suppose to go? you either become a ghost (which normally end up being insane) or end up being taken by a demon or a devil for the blood war. Beyond the mortal realm is the realm of the gods and the other entities so... there ain't much of a choice there. Become a lich and you'll end up crazy and some randoes will come to your house killing you so no matter where you look at it you're screwed unless you just have to be friendly with any of the good gods who offer you endless happiness upon death.
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Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
I still feel it's BS that you can get away with a black eye for betraying your god but if you didn't worship them at all, in a live and let live way, you are sentenced to dissolving in a friggin wall. Like, I don't like gods, they're rough and coarse and get everywhere, so why can't they just let my friggin soul alone?
And then the gods of death wonder why people want to be Lichs. The nerve.
I love the gods. They're actually among my favorite aspects of D&D--and I like that there is an established afterlife(s). I'm not very religious irl, but I try not to project that in fantasy--the gods are very real in D&D, and I actually find that enriching and refreshing. D&D has everything else (dragons, monsters, magic, etc), might as well have gods too.
I will agree however that the Wall sucks. I wish Kelemvor had gotten rid of it like he originally intended. I think the faithless should serve some sort of penance, like the False. However, even though it may feel like you are being "forced" to worship, remember that, like I said above, most Faerunians are polytheistic, worshiping a variety of deities, so you aren't forced to worship one, though most end up leaning towards one above the others, based on outlook.
I love the gods. They're actually among my favorite aspects of D&D--and I like that there is an established afterlife(s). I'm not very religious irl, but I try not to project that in fantasy--the gods are very real in D&D, and I actually find that enriching and refreshing. D&D has everything else (dragons, monsters, magic, etc), might as well have gods too.
I will agree however that the Wall sucks. I wish Kelemvor had gotten rid of it like he originally intended. I think the faithless should serve some sort of penance, like the False. However, even though it may feel like you are being "forced" to worship, remember that, like I said above, most Faerunians are polytheistic, worshiping a variety of deities, so you aren't forced to worship one, though most end up leaning towards one above the others, based on outlook.
I have nothing against gods, per se, I just prefer settings that make dealing with them optional. I don't mind playing a religious character, in spite of my RL atheism, but some players aren't comfortable with religious matters and I just like to have an afterlife that doesn't require them to be pious in any way.
In the Settings I created so far, there was either one afterlife for everyone (even though having connections to gods or fiends had an effect on the way one would live there) or they were sorted rather after alignment than after specific loyalties, for example there'd be one heaven for all the good people, where everyone could find something that would fit their idea of paradise.
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You get a wonderfull view from the point of no return.
I still feel it's BS that you can get away with a black eye for betraying your god but if you didn't worship them at all, in a live and let live way, you are sentenced to dissolving in a friggin wall. Like, I don't like gods, they're rough and coarse and get everywhere, so why can't they just let my friggin soul alone?
And then the gods of death wonder why people want to be Lichs. The nerve.
I love the gods. They're actually among my favorite aspects of D&D--and I like that there is an established afterlife(s). I'm not very religious irl, but I try not to project that in fantasy--the gods are very real in D&D, and I actually find that enriching and refreshing. D&D has everything else (dragons, monsters, magic, etc), might as well have gods too.
I will agree however that the Wall sucks. I wish Kelemvor had gotten rid of it like he originally intended. I think the faithless should serve some sort of penance, like the False. However, even though it may feel like you are being "forced" to worship, remember that, like I said above, most Faerunians are polytheistic, worshiping a variety of deities, so you aren't forced to worship one, though most end up leaning towards one above the others, based on outlook.
I remember reading somewhere that he did destroy it for fair trial but regretted it for some reason then rebuilt it again.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
I love the gods. They're actually among my favorite aspects of D&D--and I like that there is an established afterlife(s). I'm not very religious irl, but I try not to project that in fantasy--the gods are very real in D&D, and I actually find that enriching and refreshing. D&D has everything else (dragons, monsters, magic, etc), might as well have gods too.
I will agree however that the Wall sucks. I wish Kelemvor had gotten rid of it like he originally intended. I think the faithless should serve some sort of penance, like the False. However, even though it may feel like you are being "forced" to worship, remember that, like I said above, most Faerunians are polytheistic, worshiping a variety of deities, so you aren't forced to worship one, though most end up leaning towards one above the others, based on outlook.
I have nothing against gods, per se, I just prefer settings that make dealing with them optional. I don't mind playing a religious character, in spite of my RL atheism, but some players aren't comfortable with religious matters and I just like to have an afterlife that doesn't require them to be pious in any way.
In the Settings I created so far, there was either one afterlife for everyone (even though having connections to gods or fiends had an effect on the way one would live there) or they were sorted rather after alignment than after specific loyalties, for example there'd be one heaven for all the good people, where everyone could find something that would fit their idea of paradise.
That's fair. I think Critical Role does something like that: the faithful go to their god, and those who don't follow a particular deity are sorted based on how they lived their life, and assigned the appropriate afterlife. I too prefer the idea of an afterlife where there are "perks" to worshiping a deity, both in life and in the afterlife, but those who don't aren't stuck on a Wall. Perhaps they have to wait longer to enter a deity's realm, or serve a penance for a time (this doesn't mean torture).
I still feel it's BS that you can get away with a black eye for betraying your god but if you didn't worship them at all, in a live and let live way, you are sentenced to dissolving in a friggin wall. Like, I don't like gods, they're rough and coarse and get everywhere, so why can't they just let my friggin soul alone?
And then the gods of death wonder why people want to be Lichs. The nerve.
I love the gods. They're actually among my favorite aspects of D&D--and I like that there is an established afterlife(s). I'm not very religious irl, but I try not to project that in fantasy--the gods are very real in D&D, and I actually find that enriching and refreshing. D&D has everything else (dragons, monsters, magic, etc), might as well have gods too.
I will agree however that the Wall sucks. I wish Kelemvor had gotten rid of it like he originally intended. I think the faithless should serve some sort of penance, like the False. However, even though it may feel like you are being "forced" to worship, remember that, like I said above, most Faerunians are polytheistic, worshiping a variety of deities, so you aren't forced to worship one, though most end up leaning towards one above the others, based on outlook.
I remember reading somewhere that he did destroy it for fair trial but regretted it for some reason then rebuilt it again.
I remember that too, from the Avatar series. I don't remember the exact reason, but I think it's because; one, mortals were no longer fearing death, and two, the gods felt like there was less incentive for people to worship them.
I still feel it's BS that you can get away with a black eye for betraying your god but if you didn't worship them at all, in a live and let live way, you are sentenced to dissolving in a friggin wall. Like, I don't like gods, they're rough and coarse and get everywhere, so why can't they just let my friggin soul alone?
And then the gods of death wonder why people want to be Lichs. The nerve.
I love the gods. They're actually among my favorite aspects of D&D--and I like that there is an established afterlife(s). I'm not very religious irl, but I try not to project that in fantasy--the gods are very real in D&D, and I actually find that enriching and refreshing. D&D has everything else (dragons, monsters, magic, etc), might as well have gods too.
I will agree however that the Wall sucks. I wish Kelemvor had gotten rid of it like he originally intended. I think the faithless should serve some sort of penance, like the False. However, even though it may feel like you are being "forced" to worship, remember that, like I said above, most Faerunians are polytheistic, worshiping a variety of deities, so you aren't forced to worship one, though most end up leaning towards one above the others, based on outlook.
I remember reading somewhere that he did destroy it for fair trial but regretted it for some reason then rebuilt it again.
I remember that too, from the Avatar series. I don't remember the exact reason, but I think it's because; one, mortals were no longer fearing death, and two, the gods felt like there was less incentive for people to worship them.
So, basically, the wall is an inside job from the gods so people keep relying/depending on them.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You get a wonderfull view from the point of no return.
it's been a long time since I read the series, so I could be wrong. And I think the Wall existed before Ao's mandate (the gods weren't always reliant on worship), so I don't know why it existed prior.
Not BS, being part of a wall and slowly disolve is not exactly a punishment for someone that dont acknowlege no gods at all... Is more like a peaceful way to go... If you know there are gods but dont want anything to do with afterlife so be it... On the other hand the betrayer even thou is going against hisher deity still acknowleges it, its power and influence and must be punished according the severity of his her transgression
So to spare you the following comes from that site -
Afterlife
Where did a mortal go upon death? This article describes the beliefs about the afterlife held by the inhabitants of the Forgotten Realms.
What Is a Soul?
The soul was the lifeforce of a mortal, the part that gave essence and a separate existence to a creature. In some religions, this lifeforce was variably termed a "spirit", and the two terms were synonymous. In the Mulhorandi faith, this lifeforce was termed two separate spirits, ba and ka. The people of Sokkar referred to this lifeforce as ka. And dragons called their lifeforce an anima.
When a mortal died, its soul and body were separated, and the soul automatically began a journey to the afterlife. In the Mulhorandi faith, the ba spirit was said to remain within a mortal's body when they died, while the ka moved on to be judged by Osiris.
In contrast, the case was different for some other kinds of creatures that did not have such a dual nature. For example, some creatures, usually from other planes of existence and sometimes referred to as outsiders, did not have a dual nature. An outsider's soul and body formed a single spiritual existence, tied fundamentally to the essence of its plane. If an outsider died, no soul left the body. Instead, its essence merged with the plane. Moreover, when such an entity traveled to another plane, it remained anchored to its original plane with a mystical silver cord. If the visitor to another plane was killed on that other plane, the silver cord would pull the essence of the creature back, where it would reform into the creature it once was given enough time.
Most plants, oozes, and vermin were not sufficiently sentient and thus did not have souls. Undead and constructs did not usually have souls either, though the creatures from which they were constructed might have.
The Journey from Life to Death
As earlier stated, when en-souled mortals on the Prime Material Plane died under normal circumstances, their souls departed their bodies. They were then pulled to the Fugue Plane. The journey was not instantaneous, although it would seem that way to the soul itself. Some argued that the journey could take as long as three days to even a month of time on the Prime.
In the land of Zakhara, the departing soul was called a hama and it often took the spectral form of a bird.
In the teachings of some draconic religions of Faerûn, the dragon soul, the anima did not immediately depart for the afterlife; instead, it was bound to the corpse of the dragon until the mortal body of that dragon had completely decayed, freeing the anima for its journey. (In such holy myths, the anima could continue to observe the mortal world but could not interact with it in any other way.)
In some cosmologies, departed souls had to first progress through the Astral Plane. In other cosmologies, the souls were believed to first pass through the Shadowfell on the way to the Fugue.
Lost Souls
Some souls, for a variety of reasons, never made it to the Fugue Plane. Some became trapped in the Ethereal Plane or the Shadowfell as ghosts or other incorporealundead.
A number of other extreme factors could also prevent a soul from traveling safely to the Fugue Plane, resulting in other forms of undead. For example, a very small percentage of individuals suffering an exceptionally violent murder might result in the creation of a revenant. A revenant's soul was unable to reach the Fugue Plane until it had obtained revenge for its death or until a certain time limit had passed. In the lands of Zakhara, it was reported that a soul, a hama, could be trapped and tethered to the Material in the form of a bird. Such a hama, interestingly enough, somehow remained free of any connection to the Negative Energy Plane and thus was not properly considered a form of undead.
It was also possible to trap a soul in various magical items. For example, a ghost lantern utilized an entrapped spirit to generate light and grant the bearer a limited number of supernatural powers. The greatswordChalsembyr's Heart entrapped the soul of its wielder—if the wielder was a noble paladin who died while bearing the weapon—and freed the previous soul trapped in the blade. The new soul acted as a guide to the next paladin who bore the weapon in the quest to find the legendary city of Chalsembyr.
The Fugue Plane
Once arriving on the Fugue Plane, a soul resided in waiting, wandering about aimlessly, unaware that it had even died, until retrieved by a representative of one of the powers. When—after a time that on Toril would usually correspond to between a day and over a tenday—such a representative arrived, the soul would always recognize this outsider and would then accompany the being to its final plane of existence to live out the rest of eternity. It was impossible to trick or convince a soul into following a divine messenger to the wrong god or goddess' realm.
However, sometimes, if a soul had not been very faithful, it might take centuries for the representative to come. Some souls were said to fade out of existence if a representative never arrived. Others were eventually judged by the lord of the dead.
There was one exception to the rule that it was impossible to convince a soul into following the wrong divine messenger. The baatezu had an agreement that allowed them one final chance to bargain with souls. The baatezu were forbidden to injure or deceive the waiting souls in any way; however, they were permitted to offer them bargains to reject the patron that they worshiped in life in exchange for special benefits in the Nine Hells.
What the baatezu really wanted was more souls with which to create lemures, a form of devil from which more powerful kinds developed, thus building the power of their devilish armies. Most souls would refuse such an offer, of course, but if a soul had lived an evil life, sometimes the chance to avoid torment in the afterlife or to skip a step or two in the hierarchy of the Hells was appealing. Or perhaps the idea of service to the Lords of the Nine seemed better than obeying one's original chosen deity. The most powerful of mortals were sometimes even offered a chance for early promotions to higher forms of baatezu or the promise of some task or gift to be performed or given on the Material Plane in their behalf—for example, money to surviving relatives or a fiendish act of revenge on enemies.
Souls were a valuable commodity to demons as well, who used them to create the lowest forms of their own kind, the manes. The tanar'ri of the Abyss used a different method to acquire them—they stole them in periodic raids upon the Fugue Plane.
The Role of the Gods
There had been several gods of the dead, including Jergal, Myrkul, Cyric, and then Kelemvor, who held sway over this primarily transitory plane.
These gods were those worshiped primarily by human followers. What of other races? Most races had their own gods or goddesses of the dead, and each had a special role in guiding the souls of the dead of that race.
For example, all dead halflings first had to pass through the realm of Urogalan before reaching their final resting places. The elves of some worlds believed that Naralis Analor, servant of Sehanine Moonbow, was the one who escorted souls from life to death.
Among the Mulan, Osiris was held to be the god of the dead, the one responsible for dealing out their judgment in the afterlife. How he worked with Kelemvor in this is unclear, but the two were said to be allies.
The dragon god Null was responsible for shepherding dragon souls to their final destination. Dragons prayed to Null, asking him to speed the process. Some draconic myths about the afterlife held that the animae of dragons were not judged by Kelemvor or his predecessors on the Fugue Plane, instead being judged by Bahamut—if good—or Tiamat—if evil—on the planes of Mount Celestia or Baator, respectively. On occasion, rather than sending on the anima of an exceptional dragon to become a petitioner, these rulers of the draconic pantheon would keep it for their own personal use, to act as a special representative or personal guardian.
Three Kinds of Mortal Souls
Petitioners
The majority of souls who died from the lands of Faerûn had dedicated their lives to particular power, their patron deity. When these souls were taken by the representative to their deity's divine realm, they were transformed into petitioners.
What happened to a petitioner upon arriving at its final destination varied wildly by which deity that petitioner served. A good number of petitioners appeared much as they did in life, but by no means all. Petitioners of some divine realms took on traits of that realm, such as those of the House of Nature and the Plane of Shadow gaining animalistic or shadowy features, respectively. Petitioners who arrived in the Demonweb Pits lived lives as slaves and appeared similar to drow. In similar manner, most petitioners of Arvandor, Dwarfhome, the Golden Hills, and Green Fields appeared as elves, dwarves, gnomes, or halflings, respectively, even if they were not those races in mortal life.
Those souls who ended up in the realm of one of the Gods of Fury sometimes took on elemental forms or the forms of wild animals.
Souls arriving in the plane of Limbo were not allowed to manifest in a form but rather were absorbed into the chaos of the plane.
As mentioned earlier, souls stolen by demons became manes and lost all memories of their earlier lives. Manes often did not survive long, but if they managed to persist for many years, they could advance into a more powerful form of demon.
Souls who accepted a bargain with the baatezu most often became mindless lemures in the Nine Hells, but these could be promoted into higher forms of devil. Less sufficiently evil souls were believed to sometimes be made into nupperibos instead.
Most former worshipers of Bane, Beshaba, Hoar, Loviatar, and Talona became soul larva. Soul larva served as little more than a currency for the Fiendish planes, as they could be transformed into other lower fiends or simply consumed for power. Petitioners whose journey ended in the Blood Rift had the same fate.
I was wondering if any of you have information about the lore of death and the steps after a person goes to the after life into their final destination. And what are interesting things that could happen when a person dies.
Edit: if you got sources i can read to get more info i'd appreciate that as well.
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
Depends on the setting.
In the Forgotten Realms, souls travel to is the city of Judgement, where it's decided what happens to your soul. Usually, a patron of your god (or whatever you worship) will arrive and do whatever it does with souls. Or a demon could steal your soul. Or a devil could offer you a deal. Faithless people were used to build a wall and eventually dissolved. Sometimes a traveling soul gets stuck in the astral plane or the Shadowfell and becomes a ghost.
But it's different in other worlds. Some have a one-size-fits-all afterlife, some skip the BS with the city of judgement and take a soul straight where it belongs. In Theros, while technically a MTG setting, the underworld is basically another place. People can have adventures there, often attempting (and sometimes succeeding) to escape.
I am currently running a campaign about adventurers that want to escape from the afterlife of their world and it's basically a vast ocean, full of soul eating monsters.
You get a wonderfull view from the point of no return.
-Terry Pratchett
Forgotten realms is the current setting for dnd so that is what i was asking about so thanks for the info.
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
For Forgotten Realms, Wechselchrat gave a summary already, but I'll add to it a bit:
Faerunians are a largely polytheistic people, praying to several gods throughout their lives. A farmer might pray to Chauntea for crops to grow, and Talos to keep devastating storms at bay, for example. As they go through life, most Faeraunians will begin to "lean" towards one deity above the others. When they die, this is likely the deity that will take them in, as it is the one best aligned with their morals and ethics. Of course, paladins, clergy, and layworshipers will have a defined patron deity, and this is doubtless the deity who will take them in. Even those with a clear patron will acknowledge the other gods.
Species-specific pantheons (elves, gnomes, dwarves, etc) have their realms, and this is usually the destination of for the soul of that species. The pull to Arvandor (realm of the elven gods) is very strong for elves, for example.
Souls of the dead are also known as petitioners, and when they die, the majority go to the Fugue Plane, and wait for their god--or, more likely, a servitor/representative of that god--will come to collect them. A worshiper's soul will automatically recognize the agent of its own deity, and knows it needs to go with them. Agents can't take souls of worshipers of deities other than those they represent.
On the Fugue Plane are devils known as baatezu, and they have an agreement with Kelemvor, god of the dead, that they cannot trick or harm the waiting souls, but they can try to bargain with them. They want these souls so they can use them to create lemures, the lowest form of devil. Over time, the lemures can evolve into something more powerful. This isn't appealing to most souls, who would prefer to be with their deity, but for those who are pledged to an evil deity, or fear punishment, this can be a tempting offer. The success rate for the baatezu is fairly low, but still considered worth their time.
Within the Fugue Plane is the City of Judgement, home of Kelemvor and Jergal. While most souls wait around for their deity's agent to collect them, those who are Faithless or False (or those who's fate is simply more ambiguous) are compelled to enter the city. The Faithless are those who denied any faith (not atheism in the way we would think of it, as the existence of the gods is fact in Forgotten Realms, but more that they didn't acknowledge any of them beyond the fact they exist, and never paid any sort of homage), and the False intentionally betrayed a faith they believed in and to which they had made a personal commitment.
For the Faithless, the punishment is the same: you become mortar on the Wall, where you eventually dissolve. For the False, punishment varies depending on the severity of the crime. For some, the punishment is fairly light, such as escorting visiting baatezu or patrolling the city. Others are punished much more severely.
The Fugue Plane occasionally suffers from tanar'ri raids, a type of demon, who, unlike the baatezu, do not have a contract with Kelemvor. They create a portal from the Abyss and enter the Fugue Plane, ripping souls from the Wall and attempting to raid the city. Kelemvor and Jergal have soldiers who guard against these attacks, and the baatezu even help out ,as they are eager to take on their ancient enemy. These raids fortunately do not happen often, and if Kelemvor deems the tanar'ri are becoming too greedy, he will in turn send his army into the Abyss. This is rarely needed, however, and mostly serves to help keep tanar'ri attacks low.
So yeah, most souls go to their patron deity (which is either clearly defined, like for a priest, or the one they venerated most in life). For sources, regardless of what edition you play in, I recommend the Forgotten Realms 3.0 Campaign Setting Guide, Player's Guide to Faerun, and Ed Greenwood Presents: Eliminster's Forgotten Realms. You could also look up "petitioner" in the Forgotten Realms Wiki. I am always interested in afterlife stuff, myself, so I hope that helps!
I still feel it's BS that you can get away with a black eye for betraying your god but if you didn't worship them at all, in a live and let live way, you are sentenced to dissolving in a friggin wall. Like, I don't like gods, they're rough and coarse and get everywhere, so why can't they just let my friggin soul alone?
And then the gods of death wonder why people want to be Lichs. The nerve.
You get a wonderfull view from the point of no return.
-Terry Pratchett
Not all of them get dissolved in the wall apparently, some are given the option to work in the city of judgement as well (assuming the site i found is creditable). As if you don't worship any god... where is the soul is suppose to go? you either become a ghost (which normally end up being insane) or end up being taken by a demon or a devil for the blood war. Beyond the mortal realm is the realm of the gods and the other entities so... there ain't much of a choice there. Become a lich and you'll end up crazy and some randoes will come to your house killing you so no matter where you look at it you're screwed unless you just have to be friendly with any of the good gods who offer you endless happiness upon death.
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
I love the gods. They're actually among my favorite aspects of D&D--and I like that there is an established afterlife(s). I'm not very religious irl, but I try not to project that in fantasy--the gods are very real in D&D, and I actually find that enriching and refreshing. D&D has everything else (dragons, monsters, magic, etc), might as well have gods too.
I will agree however that the Wall sucks. I wish Kelemvor had gotten rid of it like he originally intended. I think the faithless should serve some sort of penance, like the False. However, even though it may feel like you are being "forced" to worship, remember that, like I said above, most Faerunians are polytheistic, worshiping a variety of deities, so you aren't forced to worship one, though most end up leaning towards one above the others, based on outlook.
I have nothing against gods, per se, I just prefer settings that make dealing with them optional. I don't mind playing a religious character, in spite of my RL atheism, but some players aren't comfortable with religious matters and I just like to have an afterlife that doesn't require them to be pious in any way.
In the Settings I created so far, there was either one afterlife for everyone (even though having connections to gods or fiends had an effect on the way one would live there) or they were sorted rather after alignment than after specific loyalties, for example there'd be one heaven for all the good people, where everyone could find something that would fit their idea of paradise.
You get a wonderfull view from the point of no return.
-Terry Pratchett
I remember reading somewhere that he did destroy it for fair trial but regretted it for some reason then rebuilt it again.
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
That's fair. I think Critical Role does something like that: the faithful go to their god, and those who don't follow a particular deity are sorted based on how they lived their life, and assigned the appropriate afterlife. I too prefer the idea of an afterlife where there are "perks" to worshiping a deity, both in life and in the afterlife, but those who don't aren't stuck on a Wall. Perhaps they have to wait longer to enter a deity's realm, or serve a penance for a time (this doesn't mean torture).
I remember that too, from the Avatar series. I don't remember the exact reason, but I think it's because; one, mortals were no longer fearing death, and two, the gods felt like there was less incentive for people to worship them.
So, basically, the wall is an inside job from the gods so people keep relying/depending on them.
You get a wonderfull view from the point of no return.
-Terry Pratchett
it's been a long time since I read the series, so I could be wrong. And I think the Wall existed before Ao's mandate (the gods weren't always reliant on worship), so I don't know why it existed prior.
Not BS, being part of a wall and slowly disolve is not exactly a punishment for someone that dont acknowlege no gods at all... Is more like a peaceful way to go... If you know there are gods but dont want anything to do with afterlife so be it... On the other hand the betrayer even thou is going against hisher deity still acknowleges it, its power and influence and must be punished according the severity of his her transgression
Forgotten Realms Wiki About Death Cycle. (Site kills my browser speed though because it has a metric ton of ads)
So to spare you the following comes from that site -
Afterlife
What Is a Soul?
The soul was the lifeforce of a mortal, the part that gave essence and a separate existence to a creature. In some religions, this lifeforce was variably termed a "spirit", and the two terms were synonymous. In the Mulhorandi faith, this lifeforce was termed two separate spirits, ba and ka. The people of Sokkar referred to this lifeforce as ka. And dragons called their lifeforce an anima.
When a mortal died, its soul and body were separated, and the soul automatically began a journey to the afterlife. In the Mulhorandi faith, the ba spirit was said to remain within a mortal's body when they died, while the ka moved on to be judged by Osiris.
In contrast, the case was different for some other kinds of creatures that did not have such a dual nature. For example, some creatures, usually from other planes of existence and sometimes referred to as outsiders, did not have a dual nature. An outsider's soul and body formed a single spiritual existence, tied fundamentally to the essence of its plane. If an outsider died, no soul left the body. Instead, its essence merged with the plane. Moreover, when such an entity traveled to another plane, it remained anchored to its original plane with a mystical silver cord. If the visitor to another plane was killed on that other plane, the silver cord would pull the essence of the creature back, where it would reform into the creature it once was given enough time.
Most plants, oozes, and vermin were not sufficiently sentient and thus did not have souls. Undead and constructs did not usually have souls either, though the creatures from which they were constructed might have.
The Journey from Life to Death
As earlier stated, when en-souled mortals on the Prime Material Plane died under normal circumstances, their souls departed their bodies. They were then pulled to the Fugue Plane. The journey was not instantaneous, although it would seem that way to the soul itself. Some argued that the journey could take as long as three days to even a month of time on the Prime.
In the land of Zakhara, the departing soul was called a hama and it often took the spectral form of a bird.
In the teachings of some draconic religions of Faerûn, the dragon soul, the anima did not immediately depart for the afterlife; instead, it was bound to the corpse of the dragon until the mortal body of that dragon had completely decayed, freeing the anima for its journey. (In such holy myths, the anima could continue to observe the mortal world but could not interact with it in any other way.)
In some cosmologies, departed souls had to first progress through the Astral Plane. In other cosmologies, the souls were believed to first pass through the Shadowfell on the way to the Fugue.
Lost Souls
Some souls, for a variety of reasons, never made it to the Fugue Plane. Some became trapped in the Ethereal Plane or the Shadowfell as ghosts or other incorporeal undead.
A number of other extreme factors could also prevent a soul from traveling safely to the Fugue Plane, resulting in other forms of undead. For example, a very small percentage of individuals suffering an exceptionally violent murder might result in the creation of a revenant. A revenant's soul was unable to reach the Fugue Plane until it had obtained revenge for its death or until a certain time limit had passed. In the lands of Zakhara, it was reported that a soul, a hama, could be trapped and tethered to the Material in the form of a bird. Such a hama, interestingly enough, somehow remained free of any connection to the Negative Energy Plane and thus was not properly considered a form of undead.
It was also possible to trap a soul in various magical items. For example, a ghost lantern utilized an entrapped spirit to generate light and grant the bearer a limited number of supernatural powers. The greatsword Chalsembyr's Heart entrapped the soul of its wielder—if the wielder was a noble paladin who died while bearing the weapon—and freed the previous soul trapped in the blade. The new soul acted as a guide to the next paladin who bore the weapon in the quest to find the legendary city of Chalsembyr.
The Fugue Plane
Once arriving on the Fugue Plane, a soul resided in waiting, wandering about aimlessly, unaware that it had even died, until retrieved by a representative of one of the powers. When—after a time that on Toril would usually correspond to between a day and over a tenday—such a representative arrived, the soul would always recognize this outsider and would then accompany the being to its final plane of existence to live out the rest of eternity. It was impossible to trick or convince a soul into following a divine messenger to the wrong god or goddess' realm.
However, sometimes, if a soul had not been very faithful, it might take centuries for the representative to come. Some souls were said to fade out of existence if a representative never arrived. Others were eventually judged by the lord of the dead.
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Bargains & Raids
There was one exception to the rule that it was impossible to convince a soul into following the wrong divine messenger. The baatezu had an agreement that allowed them one final chance to bargain with souls. The baatezu were forbidden to injure or deceive the waiting souls in any way; however, they were permitted to offer them bargains to reject the patron that they worshiped in life in exchange for special benefits in the Nine Hells.
What the baatezu really wanted was more souls with which to create lemures, a form of devil from which more powerful kinds developed, thus building the power of their devilish armies. Most souls would refuse such an offer, of course, but if a soul had lived an evil life, sometimes the chance to avoid torment in the afterlife or to skip a step or two in the hierarchy of the Hells was appealing. Or perhaps the idea of service to the Lords of the Nine seemed better than obeying one's original chosen deity. The most powerful of mortals were sometimes even offered a chance for early promotions to higher forms of baatezu or the promise of some task or gift to be performed or given on the Material Plane in their behalf—for example, money to surviving relatives or a fiendish act of revenge on enemies.
Souls were a valuable commodity to demons as well, who used them to create the lowest forms of their own kind, the manes. The tanar'ri of the Abyss used a different method to acquire them—they stole them in periodic raids upon the Fugue Plane.
The Role of the Gods
There had been several gods of the dead, including Jergal, Myrkul, Cyric, and then Kelemvor, who held sway over this primarily transitory plane.
These gods were those worshiped primarily by human followers. What of other races? Most races had their own gods or goddesses of the dead, and each had a special role in guiding the souls of the dead of that race.
For example, all dead halflings first had to pass through the realm of Urogalan before reaching their final resting places. The elves of some worlds believed that Naralis Analor, servant of Sehanine Moonbow, was the one who escorted souls from life to death.
Among the Mulan, Osiris was held to be the god of the dead, the one responsible for dealing out their judgment in the afterlife. How he worked with Kelemvor in this is unclear, but the two were said to be allies.
The dragon god Null was responsible for shepherding dragon souls to their final destination. Dragons prayed to Null, asking him to speed the process. Some draconic myths about the afterlife held that the animae of dragons were not judged by Kelemvor or his predecessors on the Fugue Plane, instead being judged by Bahamut—if good—or Tiamat—if evil—on the planes of Mount Celestia or Baator, respectively. On occasion, rather than sending on the anima of an exceptional dragon to become a petitioner, these rulers of the draconic pantheon would keep it for their own personal use, to act as a special representative or personal guardian.
Three Kinds of Mortal Souls
Petitioners
The majority of souls who died from the lands of Faerûn had dedicated their lives to particular power, their patron deity. When these souls were taken by the representative to their deity's divine realm, they were transformed into petitioners.
What happened to a petitioner upon arriving at its final destination varied wildly by which deity that petitioner served. A good number of petitioners appeared much as they did in life, but by no means all. Petitioners of some divine realms took on traits of that realm, such as those of the House of Nature and the Plane of Shadow gaining animalistic or shadowy features, respectively. Petitioners who arrived in the Demonweb Pits lived lives as slaves and appeared similar to drow. In similar manner, most petitioners of Arvandor, Dwarfhome, the Golden Hills, and Green Fields appeared as elves, dwarves, gnomes, or halflings, respectively, even if they were not those races in mortal life.
Those souls who ended up in the realm of one of the Gods of Fury sometimes took on elemental forms or the forms of wild animals.
Souls arriving in the plane of Limbo were not allowed to manifest in a form but rather were absorbed into the chaos of the plane.
As mentioned earlier, souls stolen by demons became manes and lost all memories of their earlier lives. Manes often did not survive long, but if they managed to persist for many years, they could advance into a more powerful form of demon.
Souls who accepted a bargain with the baatezu most often became mindless lemures in the Nine Hells, but these could be promoted into higher forms of devil. Less sufficiently evil souls were believed to sometimes be made into nupperibos instead.
Most former worshipers of Bane, Beshaba, Hoar, Loviatar, and Talona became soul larva. Soul larva served as little more than a currency for the Fiendish planes, as they could be transformed into other lower fiends or simply consumed for power. Petitioners whose journey ended in the Blood Rift had the same fate.
Petitioners of Mount Celestia and many within the House of the Triad became lantern archons. Over time, they were promoted into higher forms of archons or perhaps into aasimar.
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