Hello! There has been discussions about the rules allready, but I am curious to hear how different AL:s out there is handling this: Do you get to carry over undeads that you created (animate dead / finger of death) or taken controll of (controll undead) from one play session to another? The logical would of course be that you would have to start with fewer spell slots in case you kept controll of skeletons/zombies created with the animate dead spell.
I am also curious to how the ”create thrall” ability for an old one warlock work in your local AL, does the thrall carry over the the next session or not?
Hello! There has been discussions about the rules allready, but I am curious to hear how different AL:s out there is handling this: Do you get to carry over undeads that you created (animate dead / finger of death) or taken controll of (controll undead) from one play session to another? The logical would of course be that you would have to start with fewer spell slots in case you kept controll of skeletons/zombies created with the animate dead spell.
I am also curious to how the ”create thrall” ability for an old one warlock work in your local AL, does the thrall carry over the the next session or not?
Depends on downtime in between for a lot of them....
it’s not expected if you spend downtime at a local tavern the townsfolk will be thrilled/sympathetic to you keeping a zombie army.
It varies depending on the DM. Some DMs don't have an issue with it as long as the caster expends the 3rd level spell slot needed to keep the undead under control each day. Some DMs might check to make sure that each undead is properly logged in terms of when it was acquired. The occasional DM might just say no.
However, one necromancer wizard I know who did start to collect undead stopped doing so since he found it not worthwhile.
They had a couple of zombies at the start of a module carried over from a previous module. They expended the spell slot to keep them under control since you have to cast it once/day and it isn't a downtime activity. The zombies helped a bit but, pretty much as expected, they made social encounters more difficult and in terms of combat encounters, the DM can scale the encounters as needed to match the power of the party. The extra zombies meant some extra opponents and the zombies were killed off in the first combat encounter. As folks get into tier 2 and beyond, fireballs and other spells become much more common and zombies/skeletons don't survive for very long. They are also slow and typically do non-magical damage. In the end the necromancer wizard found that it really wasn't worthwhile to try to build up a collection of zombies/skeletons that were typically killed off in fairly short order.
I think this is the kind of situation you would find in most AL games. Creating undead isn't a downtime activity, you need to find suitable bones or dead humanoids in AL modules (most likely after you have engaged in a combat against appropriate foes) then the caster needs to cast the spell to create the undead which then follows them around obeying their commands. It takes more castings to create the undead than to control them. Depending on the spell slots used and the opponents fought in the last battle you might manage to have a couple undead to carry over to the next module where they promptly die anyway. Basically, the low level creatures created just aren't worth the resource cost in the long run.
So, it may not be worthwhile building a character concept around having undead followers in AL but it may depend on the DMs where you play.
The discussion usually circles around how good skeletons and zombies are in battle. A fireball will usually have much better effect then the few skeletons you animated. A horde is very unlikely to have an good effect as you and them are likely to be seen as evil and dangerous, and have a big risk of having the horde destroyed.
To me it seems that a good use of this spell would be to have 2-4 skeletons. Disguise them with armor, helmet etc so they are not instantly spotted as undead. Then you have a few servants that work 24/7 without need for sleep, rest or food. As they have inteligence of 7 and a decent strength score I was thinking of tasks like carrying mine and other casters gear or standing guard when the party take a long rest. In a fight they wont have that big effect, but they wont take up much time either. Just give them shortbows and have them attack the same target. Roll their attack dice at the same time.
If you are burning the spell slots in the morning to control them, we have no major problem. I have one player with 5 skeletons in plate with short bows. He did log the gp expensive of the plate.
My party has been using skeletons as trap detectors and porters of loot. Yes, they aren't as combat effective as a fireball. Their manager is a sorcerer with ritual casting feat who clearly casts by the book. As the sorcerer's sorcery based spell list delves into the necromancy actually on the sorcerer spell list, we've discussed the possibility of using meta magic in some ways, haven't settled on exactly how or whether I'm going to allow it, but would welcome feedback from those who've "tried that" reading the thread.
My party has been using skeletons as trap detectors and porters of loot. Yes, they aren't as combat effective as a fireball. Their manager is a sorcerer with ritual casting feat who clearly casts by the book. As the sorcerer's sorcery based spell list delves into the necromancy actually on the sorcerer spell list, we've discussed the possibility of using meta magic in some ways, haven't settled on exactly how or whether I'm going to allow it, but would welcome feedback from those who've "tried that" reading the thread.
Hi! Are they a divine soul sorcerer who picked up animate dead from the cleric list?
I'm not sure where ritual caster fits in since Animate Dead isn't a ritual. I'm also not sure where any meta magics would fit in with regard to animate dead. I looked at the list of metamagic options and I don't see how any of them would affect the Animate dead spell in any useful way. I also didn't see much on the sorcerer spell list that would be related to necromancy.
Also, are you playing AL? The number of options that a DM can "allow" is somewhat limited unless the rules themselves aren't clear.
My party has been using skeletons as trap detectors and porters of loot. Yes, they aren't as combat effective as a fireball. Their manager is a sorcerer with ritual casting feat who clearly casts by the book. As the sorcerer's sorcery based spell list delves into the necromancy actually on the sorcerer spell list, we've discussed the possibility of using meta magic in some ways, haven't settled on exactly how or whether I'm going to allow it, but would welcome feedback from those who've "tried that" reading the thread.
Hi! Are they a divine soul sorcerer who picked up animate dead from the cleric list?
I'm not sure where ritual caster fits in since Animate Dead isn't a ritual. I'm also not sure where any meta magics would fit in with regard to animate dead. I looked at the list of metamagic options and I don't see how any of them would affect the Animate dead spell in any useful way. I also didn't see much on the sorcerer spell list that would be related to necromancy.
Also, are you playing AL? The number of options that a DM can "allow" is somewhat limited unless the rules themselves aren't clear.
Huh, my bad. While I know AL was evoked in the thread title, I thought this was posted in the general discussion section, so I chimed in. Definitely not an ALer.
So, while I don't want to pollute this thread with any further heresy toward AL orthodoxy, I'll give you a brief rundown of answers to your queries. The sorcerer in question was built from the GMBinder community collection of reworked and expanded sorcerous origins. In this particular case, the sorcerer's magic has abyssal origins (with a feature progression and an "origin" spell list flavored accordingly).
Re: Animate Dead, you are correct Animate Dead (and a number of other spells which certainly seem apropos to be included as ritual magic ... like almost all necromancy for instance) isn't on any RAW ritual magic lists. However, to cite the recent AL tentpole, Descent into Avernus, there are two encounters in the Dungeon of the Dead Three (Flennis, in the morgue, with her spell book on the table; and the skeleton alter) planted the idea in my mind and those of my players to think of the possibility of Animate Dead as the sort of spell that could be bound into a ritualistic tome or totem. Sorcerer got the bug for it the most so took on the ritual caster feat for Wizard spells when it became available, and we'll see what they do they get to the level where it's available (they're also using a Baldur's Gate "spoils" clause toward property and a bit of fortune to see the alter excavated, not sure if its magic will survive the move).
As for meta magic, I think Twinning arguably would have some affect on necromancy, but we're more thinking about ways that the sorcery point mechanic could be used to distort or flex spells beyond the options offered, particularly for magic lacking tactical application/effect. While it is a tactical effect, the ability to transmute an elemental based spell to another element or damage class (fireball to to lightning ball for example) would be an example of what we may play around with in the sandbox.
Lastly there are quite a few spells in the necromancy school on the Sorcerer's spell list, just not the ones that scream "necromancy" starting with the cantrip Chill Touch. What the character is toying with is exploring magicks that imply that what's imbuing the sorcerers magic is tied to the necrotic/anti-life/negative energy forces most at play in what scholarly wizards classify as necromancy.
But all of this isn't really possible to the extend my group would like within AL parameters, and again I apologize for bumbling in here. I honestly thought this was posted to the Gen Discussion section despite it's mention of AL, hence my impulse to chime in. And again, my apologies for disrupting.
Hello!
There has been discussions about the rules allready, but I am curious to hear how different AL:s out there is handling this: Do you get to carry over undeads that you created (animate dead / finger of death) or taken controll of (controll undead) from one play session to another? The logical would of course be that you would have to start with fewer spell slots in case you kept controll of skeletons/zombies created with the animate dead spell.
I am also curious to how the ”create thrall” ability for an old one warlock work in your local AL, does the thrall carry over the the next session or not?
Depends on downtime in between for a lot of them....
it’s not expected if you spend downtime at a local tavern the townsfolk will be thrilled/sympathetic to you keeping a zombie army.
Blank
It varies depending on the DM. Some DMs don't have an issue with it as long as the caster expends the 3rd level spell slot needed to keep the undead under control each day. Some DMs might check to make sure that each undead is properly logged in terms of when it was acquired. The occasional DM might just say no.
However, one necromancer wizard I know who did start to collect undead stopped doing so since he found it not worthwhile.
They had a couple of zombies at the start of a module carried over from a previous module. They expended the spell slot to keep them under control since you have to cast it once/day and it isn't a downtime activity. The zombies helped a bit but, pretty much as expected, they made social encounters more difficult and in terms of combat encounters, the DM can scale the encounters as needed to match the power of the party. The extra zombies meant some extra opponents and the zombies were killed off in the first combat encounter. As folks get into tier 2 and beyond, fireballs and other spells become much more common and zombies/skeletons don't survive for very long. They are also slow and typically do non-magical damage. In the end the necromancer wizard found that it really wasn't worthwhile to try to build up a collection of zombies/skeletons that were typically killed off in fairly short order.
I think this is the kind of situation you would find in most AL games. Creating undead isn't a downtime activity, you need to find suitable bones or dead humanoids in AL modules (most likely after you have engaged in a combat against appropriate foes) then the caster needs to cast the spell to create the undead which then follows them around obeying their commands. It takes more castings to create the undead than to control them. Depending on the spell slots used and the opponents fought in the last battle you might manage to have a couple undead to carry over to the next module where they promptly die anyway. Basically, the low level creatures created just aren't worth the resource cost in the long run.
So, it may not be worthwhile building a character concept around having undead followers in AL but it may depend on the DMs where you play.
The discussion usually circles around how good skeletons and zombies are in battle. A fireball will usually have much better effect then the few skeletons you animated. A horde is very unlikely to have an good effect as you and them are likely to be seen as evil and dangerous, and have a big risk of having the horde destroyed.
To me it seems that a good use of this spell would be to have 2-4 skeletons. Disguise them with armor, helmet etc so they are not instantly spotted as undead. Then you have a few servants that work 24/7 without need for sleep, rest or food. As they have inteligence of 7 and a decent strength score I was thinking of tasks like carrying mine and other casters gear or standing guard when the party take a long rest. In a fight they wont have that big effect, but they wont take up much time either. Just give them shortbows and have them attack the same target. Roll their attack dice at the same time.
If you are burning the spell slots in the morning to control them, we have no major problem. I have one player with 5 skeletons in plate with short bows. He did log the gp expensive of the plate.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
My party has been using skeletons as trap detectors and porters of loot. Yes, they aren't as combat effective as a fireball. Their manager is a sorcerer with ritual casting feat who clearly casts by the book. As the sorcerer's sorcery based spell list delves into the necromancy actually on the sorcerer spell list, we've discussed the possibility of using meta magic in some ways, haven't settled on exactly how or whether I'm going to allow it, but would welcome feedback from those who've "tried that" reading the thread.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Hi! Are they a divine soul sorcerer who picked up animate dead from the cleric list?
I'm not sure where ritual caster fits in since Animate Dead isn't a ritual. I'm also not sure where any meta magics would fit in with regard to animate dead. I looked at the list of metamagic options and I don't see how any of them would affect the Animate dead spell in any useful way. I also didn't see much on the sorcerer spell list that would be related to necromancy.
Also, are you playing AL? The number of options that a DM can "allow" is somewhat limited unless the rules themselves aren't clear.
Huh, my bad. While I know AL was evoked in the thread title, I thought this was posted in the general discussion section, so I chimed in. Definitely not an ALer.
So, while I don't want to pollute this thread with any further heresy toward AL orthodoxy, I'll give you a brief rundown of answers to your queries. The sorcerer in question was built from the GMBinder community collection of reworked and expanded sorcerous origins. In this particular case, the sorcerer's magic has abyssal origins (with a feature progression and an "origin" spell list flavored accordingly).
Re: Animate Dead, you are correct Animate Dead (and a number of other spells which certainly seem apropos to be included as ritual magic ... like almost all necromancy for instance) isn't on any RAW ritual magic lists. However, to cite the recent AL tentpole, Descent into Avernus, there are two encounters in the Dungeon of the Dead Three (Flennis, in the morgue, with her spell book on the table; and the skeleton alter) planted the idea in my mind and those of my players to think of the possibility of Animate Dead as the sort of spell that could be bound into a ritualistic tome or totem. Sorcerer got the bug for it the most so took on the ritual caster feat for Wizard spells when it became available, and we'll see what they do they get to the level where it's available (they're also using a Baldur's Gate "spoils" clause toward property and a bit of fortune to see the alter excavated, not sure if its magic will survive the move).
As for meta magic, I think Twinning arguably would have some affect on necromancy, but we're more thinking about ways that the sorcery point mechanic could be used to distort or flex spells beyond the options offered, particularly for magic lacking tactical application/effect. While it is a tactical effect, the ability to transmute an elemental based spell to another element or damage class (fireball to to lightning ball for example) would be an example of what we may play around with in the sandbox.
Lastly there are quite a few spells in the necromancy school on the Sorcerer's spell list, just not the ones that scream "necromancy" starting with the cantrip Chill Touch. What the character is toying with is exploring magicks that imply that what's imbuing the sorcerers magic is tied to the necrotic/anti-life/negative energy forces most at play in what scholarly wizards classify as necromancy.
But all of this isn't really possible to the extend my group would like within AL parameters, and again I apologize for bumbling in here. I honestly thought this was posted to the Gen Discussion section despite it's mention of AL, hence my impulse to chime in. And again, my apologies for disrupting.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.