PVP is allowed in AL but HIGHLY on the don't go there list. I allow it when all 3 of us agree to it. It has always been to TKO. As to LE not playing well with Goody Goodyies. I have not seen it. I see more people get into conflict for PCs going against what the party wants. EX. Hey just feed the owlbear cubs a ration or two. Stupid player. I attack the owlbear mom.
Torture. That rings the don't go there bell. David42. I have not suspend anyone for it but have told them to knock it off. I have banned a player (long before there were official suspensions.). Once for a week because he open the AD&D hand book wanting to cast spells from it and freaking out half the table. Second was 3 weeks but failure to follow the rules. He lost a save and refused to accept the result. That got him a 1 week ban. Then he said I could not make his pc do the result. That got him an immediate ban and the table totally ignore him. Social pressure I love it sometimes.
David42 About a third of my PCs are LE. Only have 18 pcs. LE can play well with others but we look out for ourselves first.
PVP is allowed in AL but HIGHLY on the don't go there list. I allow it when all 3 of us agree to it. It has always been to TKO. As to LE not playing well with Goody Goodyies. I have not seen it. I see more people get into conflict for PCs going against what the party wants. EX. Hey just feed the owlbear cubs a ration or two. Stupid player. I attack the owlbear mom.
Torture. That rings the don't go there bell. David42. I have not suspend anyone for it but have told them to knock it off. I have banned a player (long before there were official suspensions.). Once for a week because he open the AD&D hand book wanting to cast spells from it and freaking out half the table. Second was 3 weeks but failure to follow the rules. He lost a save and refused to accept the result. That got him a 1 week ban. Then he said I could not make his pc do the result. That got him an immediate ban and the table totally ignore him. Social pressure I love it sometimes.
David42 About a third of my PCs are LE. Only have 18 pcs. LE can play well with others but we look out for ourselves first.
Exactly that. Lawful Evil doesn't mean random killing, stealing from the party, torturing random NPCs like a psychopath in the basement. (Really, that's a little crazy to even want to roleplay that and is more on the border of Neutral Evil/Chaotic Evil) The distinction needs to be drawn that being lawful evil does not allow for grand theft auto style gameplay.
Lawful evil is negotiating with the hag to come to an arrangement when the good characters only want to kill her. it's killing the criminal you're sent after with a dead or alive bounty. It can most definitely add to real dynamic roleplay, and in an adventurers league story where most of the group are good characters it adds depth to a storyline that more often than not lacks that element.
And just because someone is lawful evil doesn't mean they're prone to PVP. I understand the need for rules against it in organized play, but I have not heard of any of my friends dealing with it, nor have I dealt with it myself at my table, but rather a character that's been charmed/controlled or acting under the influence of magic doing something harmful to the group, and the group uses Tasha's hideous laughter or some other control spell to stop them while they figure out how to end the effect.
PVP is allowed in AL but HIGHLY on the don't go there list. I allow it when all 3 of us agree to it. It has always been to TKO. As to LE not playing well with Goody Goodyies. I have not seen it. I see more people get into conflict for PCs going against what the party wants. EX. Hey just feed the owlbear cubs a ration or two. Stupid player. I attack the owlbear mom.
Torture. That rings the don't go there bell. David42. I have not suspend anyone for it but have told them to knock it off. I have banned a player (long before there were official suspensions.). Once for a week because he open the AD&D hand book wanting to cast spells from it and freaking out half the table. Second was 3 weeks but failure to follow the rules. He lost a save and refused to accept the result. That got him a 1 week ban. Then he said I could not make his pc do the result. That got him an immediate ban and the table totally ignore him. Social pressure I love it sometimes.
David42 About a third of my PCs are LE. Only have 18 pcs. LE can play well with others but we look out for ourselves first.
Exactly that. Lawful Evil doesn't mean random killing, stealing from the party, torturing random NPCs like a psychopath in the basement. (Really, that's a little crazy to even want to roleplay that and is more on the border of Neutral Evil/Chaotic Evil) The distinction needs to be drawn that being lawful evil does not allow for grand theft auto style gameplay.
Lawful evil is negotiating with the hag to come to an arrangement when the good characters only want to kill her. it's killing the criminal you're sent after with a dead or alive bounty. It can most definitely add to real dynamic roleplay, and in an adventurers league story where most of the group are good characters it adds depth to a storyline that more often than not lacks that element.
And just because someone is lawful evil doesn't mean they're prone to PVP. I understand the need for rules against it in organized play, but I have not heard of any of my friends dealing with it, nor have I dealt with it myself at my table, but rather a character that's been charmed/controlled or acting under the influence of magic doing something harmful to the group, and the group uses Tasha's hideous laughter or some other control spell to stop them while they figure out how to end the effect.
I just want to say that I agree with both of you. I've seen lawful evil characters in AL play that worked fine. They tend to follow their own rules and look out for #1 first but they WILL work with the team to overcome the encounters in the module. However, depending on what the player decides the "rules" the character follows are then it can work out ok but other times not so much. I've also seen folks run lawful evil characters using the techniques that I described previously and which I consider unacceptable for AL play most of the time. A lawful evil character could have a personal code of taking trophies from their opponents. That is both lawful and evil but also behavior that likely should not be permitted at an AL table unless everyone involved agrees it is ok. (even then folks can feel peer pressured into saying it is ok when they truly think it isn't).
The problem is really that for SOME players, the ability to play lawful evil characters literally causes problems for the DM and others at the table when a player takes it too far. Neutral and good alignments don't tend to have the same issues at least in my play experience in terms of egregious and particularly amoral/immoral character actions. I don't think either of you would fall into that category but some do.
Anyway, for that reason, I don't really have an issue with AL leaving lawful evil characters out of season 10.
P.S. As far as I know, the only PVP allowed in AL is consensual. All the players and the DM have to agree that it is ok. Otherwise, it is up to the DM to step in and prevent one player's character from harming another player's character.
In AL, you can often be playing with folks you have only just met or may not know at all ... PVP and other character behaviors, even if their character isn't directly involved, can be personally stressful or worse depending on that player's personal life experiences so it is up to the DM to moderate and keep the character interactions to a "PG" level or less unless they know everyone extremely well. AL is often not the same as a table of friends at a home game where many things are treated as a joke that perhaps shouldn't be.
A lawful evil character could have a personal code of taking trophies from their opponents. That is both lawful and evil but also behavior that likely should not be permitted at an AL table unless everyone involved agrees it is ok. (even then folks can feel peer pressured into saying it is ok when they truly think it isn't).
??? What is evil about taking trophies? My CG tortle cleric takes trophies. The entire character concept is based around taking trophies. Heck, many magic items are made from "trophies" taken from dead opponents.
MOST PVP I have seen at the table has been friendly fire. Stupid tank runs down range and gets in the face of the boss monster, and has to agree to take the fireball. Or something similar.
I do try to keep everything PG-13. Because sometimes I have gotten tired of Bob describing how he takes trophies. Or Bob2 wanting to date the Drow Priestess.
A lawful evil character could have a personal code of taking trophies from their opponents. That is both lawful and evil but also behavior that likely should not be permitted at an AL table unless everyone involved agrees it is ok. (even then folks can feel peer pressured into saying it is ok when they truly think it isn't).
??? What is evil about taking trophies? My CG tortle cleric takes trophies. The entire character concept is based around taking trophies. Heck, many magic items are made from "trophies" taken from dead opponents.
It kind of depends what you take as a trophy. Personally, I think hacking off body parts from a creature you killed leans towards evil but maybe it is just leaning towards gross :)
It's still a trash rule set. It was only a matter of time before they added the no trading between seasons.
It's good that there's Kenku allowed now. But still no Triton, a generally lawful neutral or lawful good race. And still no goblinoids with no explanation given.
I'm expecting about 6 more of these rule amendments this season. WoTC and AL admins are messing up.
PVP is allowed in AL but HIGHLY on the don't go there list. I allow it when all 3 of us agree to it. It has always been to TKO. As to LE not playing well with Goody Goodyies. I have not seen it. I see more people get into conflict for PCs going against what the party wants. EX. Hey just feed the owlbear cubs a ration or two. Stupid player. I attack the owlbear mom.
Torture. That rings the don't go there bell. David42. I have not suspend anyone for it but have told them to knock it off. I have banned a player (long before there were official suspensions.). Once for a week because he open the AD&D hand book wanting to cast spells from it and freaking out half the table. Second was 3 weeks but failure to follow the rules. He lost a save and refused to accept the result. That got him a 1 week ban. Then he said I could not make his pc do the result. That got him an immediate ban and the table totally ignore him. Social pressure I love it sometimes.
David42 About a third of my PCs are LE. Only have 18 pcs. LE can play well with others but we look out for ourselves first.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
Exactly that. Lawful Evil doesn't mean random killing, stealing from the party, torturing random NPCs like a psychopath in the basement. (Really, that's a little crazy to even want to roleplay that and is more on the border of Neutral Evil/Chaotic Evil) The distinction needs to be drawn that being lawful evil does not allow for grand theft auto style gameplay.
Lawful evil is negotiating with the hag to come to an arrangement when the good characters only want to kill her. it's killing the criminal you're sent after with a dead or alive bounty. It can most definitely add to real dynamic roleplay, and in an adventurers league story where most of the group are good characters it adds depth to a storyline that more often than not lacks that element.
Here's a link with a pretty good description of what lawful evil is.
And just because someone is lawful evil doesn't mean they're prone to PVP. I understand the need for rules against it in organized play, but I have not heard of any of my friends dealing with it, nor have I dealt with it myself at my table, but rather a character that's been charmed/controlled or acting under the influence of magic doing something harmful to the group, and the group uses Tasha's hideous laughter or some other control spell to stop them while they figure out how to end the effect.
I just want to say that I agree with both of you. I've seen lawful evil characters in AL play that worked fine. They tend to follow their own rules and look out for #1 first but they WILL work with the team to overcome the encounters in the module. However, depending on what the player decides the "rules" the character follows are then it can work out ok but other times not so much. I've also seen folks run lawful evil characters using the techniques that I described previously and which I consider unacceptable for AL play most of the time. A lawful evil character could have a personal code of taking trophies from their opponents. That is both lawful and evil but also behavior that likely should not be permitted at an AL table unless everyone involved agrees it is ok. (even then folks can feel peer pressured into saying it is ok when they truly think it isn't).
The problem is really that for SOME players, the ability to play lawful evil characters literally causes problems for the DM and others at the table when a player takes it too far. Neutral and good alignments don't tend to have the same issues at least in my play experience in terms of egregious and particularly amoral/immoral character actions. I don't think either of you would fall into that category but some do.
Anyway, for that reason, I don't really have an issue with AL leaving lawful evil characters out of season 10.
P.S. As far as I know, the only PVP allowed in AL is consensual. All the players and the DM have to agree that it is ok. Otherwise, it is up to the DM to step in and prevent one player's character from harming another player's character.
In AL, you can often be playing with folks you have only just met or may not know at all ... PVP and other character behaviors, even if their character isn't directly involved, can be personally stressful or worse depending on that player's personal life experiences so it is up to the DM to moderate and keep the character interactions to a "PG" level or less unless they know everyone extremely well. AL is often not the same as a table of friends at a home game where many things are treated as a joke that perhaps shouldn't be.
MOST PVP I have seen at the table has been friendly fire. Stupid tank runs down range and gets in the face of the boss monster, and has to agree to take the fireball. Or something similar.
I do try to keep everything PG-13. Because sometimes I have gotten tired of Bob describing how he takes trophies. Or Bob2 wanting to date the Drow Priestess.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
FYI, Season 10.2 rules now out.
https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/AL_PGv_10_2.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0OcEnztAcEvg62RFdHD0o6C0hsdNVjz2MtHctZtkt8N5icICmTzgT8-wU
Note, you can no longer trade between seasons.
It kind of depends what you take as a trophy. Personally, I think hacking off body parts from a creature you killed leans towards evil but maybe it is just leaning towards gross :)
Thanks Hawkin. They added Kenku as a race.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
It's still a trash rule set. It was only a matter of time before they added the no trading between seasons.
It's good that there's Kenku allowed now. But still no Triton, a generally lawful neutral or lawful good race. And still no goblinoids with no explanation given.
I'm expecting about 6 more of these rule amendments this season. WoTC and AL admins are messing up.
It is more WOTC than the AL admins. The Admins are saying Wotc has taken over more of the writing up AL rules.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.