So, I've been considering leaving a scroll of Wish in the next location my player characters will be exploring. Given that the adventure they're on is pretty dangerous and sometimes the players really do play into their characters and take inadvisable actions. My intention as a GM here is that if they get hold of a scroll of wish they've got the opportunity to undo a single choice that a character made.
As an example last session against the player's better judgement a character did something that all the warnings and foreshadowing suggested they shouldn't. They touched an artefact that turned unwitting people into an undead thrall of the location they were exploring. There was even a clear sign above the artefact - but said artefact was shiny and attractive to the character who had been left on their own. So in theory wish would be able to undo the decision to touch the artefact and thus would allow for a character that was others done to return to the group.
In this particular case, said use of wish would be implausible as no other character witnessed the now undead character touching the stone and thus there's no-one who has knowledge of the decision made. It just serves as a good example within a particularly dangerous campaign of how I'm intending Wish to be used. It's to provide a good solid safety net. To be clear, at my tables Wish can only be used according to the basic five options in the description of the spell along with the ability to alter one very specific choice. My players are of course aware of this interpretation of the spell so that's not an issue.
So with all that said, and context given have any other DMs had experience with such loot being left around the place? Did it go well or unexpectedly?
I haven't given a Spell Scroll of Wish, or other powerful expendables like that, but I think that giving that kind of magic to your players could go powerfully awry. Wish can break any game, even with the restrictions you've placed upon it. I think it would be okay, but don't randomly put it in a chest in some sunken dungeon. Make it something they have to work for, as a side quest or some other way where it is difficult to obtain.
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He doesn't have much besides the skin on his bones. Me: I'll take the skin on his bones, then.
"You see a gigantic, monstrous praying mantis burst from out of the ground. It sprays a stream of acid from it's mouth at one soldier, dissolving him instantly, then it turns and chomps another soldier in half with it's- "
Wish has a potential for utter chaos - think divine intervention, but bigger.
They may wish that the party member was freed from whatever curse, which is fine. But, they might instead wish for the power to remove all curses from anyone of their choosing. Or they might wish that the artifact never had such power.
There is honestly no way of knowing how they will use it, except that there is an almost 100% chance that they don't use it the way you're planning!
If you want to give them a macguffin which frees them from the curse, I would make it specific, and also leave them consequence - why have an artifact which turns people to undead thralls if you're not expecting it to affect the party, after all?
Perhaps a bracelet which offers the protection of the sun god, provided that they awaken before dawn and worship the sun rising. The bracelet has a handy bit of magic which wakes you up every. single. day. to perform this ritual. If you fail to perform the ritual, then the undead curse creeps back. Do it from solstice to solstice and the curse is broken.
As a player, I once drew from a deck of many things and got a wish. I never ended up using it. There was a good bit of campaign we kept playing through, but I just held on to the thing like a security blanket. Just in case, I always had it sitting in my pocket, ready.
I’m not trying to say I’m universal, but there is a chance they think the same way. They want to hold it for some really big thing, but nothing ever seems to be big enough to qualify. So, not using it is also a possibility, and when I got it I doubt anyone, me included, thought that would happen.
Wish has a potential for utter chaos - think divine intervention, but bigger.
So, I did try to get ahead of this sentiment by providing the context. The Wish spell is not actually all that powerful when you look at the core function of what it has the ability to do.
Duplication of any spell. That's a one-time use of any spell. Great, that might one-shot a mini boss but doesn't have any massive effect on the longer campaign.
Create a non magical item of value 25,000gp. Again, maybe the players summon a house or other building. One party I had used it to build an orphanage. No real long term effect to the campaign unless the party decide to retire. In which case there's no-one who stands against the larger threats and the world falls to the evil plans of the villain. A valid player choice, and we move to the next campaign. Players rarely want this unless they're not enjoying the campaign anyway so again no harm done.
Healing/Curing of up to 20 creatures. Powerful certainly, but again it's a one use. That doesn't affect the longer campaign in any real way but to be a quick and easy heal. If you waste it on a mini-boss, you won't have it for the big boss.
Resistance to one damage type for 10 creatures. Resistances really common anyway in 5e and 5.5e. So much so that it's kinda expected by any GM who's ever taken a party to level 20 that your players will pick up a few of these. No real impact on the campaign. It's your player characters getting stronger - that's good.
Limited immunity to a single spell or effect for 8 hours. Wow, yeah that's really strong isn't it? Being serious though, again if you've got an enemy who loves throwing out the same old spell then yeah the party get to ignore it and have an easier fight. That's just good game play.
Undo a single roll within the last round. This one seems really powerful, but let's be honest there's no guarantee that the player character's new roll succeeds. It seems powerful and it is if you're facing a beholder and have no resources left. You can reroll that save against the petrification ray. Again, play as designed not all that powerful especially given that Inspiration and Luck exist.
Then there is my addition and allowance to the spell. I allow one simple choice to be undone. It must be a character choice, and it must be a simple one: i.e. that the choice affects only one thing. So no 'if I undo this choice, then it'll affect this thing that also has this impact, that also has that impact.
There should be no GM looking at Wish and saying 'oh yeah it's really very powerful and can do all these crazy things'. Anything outside of this scope the player asks for does not have to be honoured by the GM, nor does it have to play out in the same way that the players thought it would.
Worse still for the player characters, the caster of this spell becomes much weaker immediately if they do anything other than duplicate a spell. Until the next long rest every spell they cast deals them 1d10 of necrotic damage per spell level and it reduces their strength score to 3 for 2d4 days (a minimum of 2 in game days, but an average of four). Even worse for the PC, they have a 1/3rd chance of never being able to cast the spell again. So the cost of casting this thing is truly awful. No 'let's cast wish and suddenly everything is going to be sunflowers and daisies'. It's a meaningful character choice: 'I will cast this spell at great cost to myself'.
Wish is not something to be afraid of as a GM and if people read the text and understood how the darn spell worked instead of listening to internet lore and bafflingly bad tiktokers and youtubers, I don't think GMs would be concerned about complications from these types of spells.
They may wish that the party member was freed from whatever curse, which is fine.
Separate post for a separate thought.
It wasn't a curse - it was outright the player character is gone. Dead. Their corpse then became undead with no autonomy. That was the point of the big scary, heavily foreshadowed artefact that is not to be touched. I rarely do things like this but this is the group's 4th campaign now. They've gone to levels 20, 12, and 16 respectively. They know enough that I don't hold back any more. If their characters make a silly mistake it'll cost the character in one way or another. To be clear, I wouldn't have such a dangerous item in a table of players at a game store because I don't know them or their expectations. Nor would it be put before a group of players newer to the game or me as GM. This was the right item, for the right table, for the right players. My own dislike of feeling too harsh is what is driving the desire to drop an item that can be used in case of silly mistake here. Not the players, who yeah are more likely to waste a Scroll of Wish than use it for something sensible which again is 100% okay and up to them. In one game they even had an artefact that was described as exceedingly powerful, but they never bothered to identify. It was capable of all the benefits of a long rest in a mere 1 minute of in game time.
Maybe, instead of offering a scroll of Wish, proffer a healing artifact or something with the core purpose of removing such ill effects and reviving the players. They can go about saving the other player from their current terrible fate, without the "potential pitfalls" of a straight scroll of Wish.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
He doesn't have much besides the skin on his bones. Me: I'll take the skin on his bones, then.
"You see a gigantic, monstrous praying mantis burst from out of the ground. It sprays a stream of acid from it's mouth at one soldier, dissolving him instantly, then it turns and chomps another soldier in half with it's- "
Maybe, instead of offering a scroll of Wish, proffer a healing artifact or something with the core purpose of removing such ill effects and reviving the players. They can go about saving the other player from their current terrible fate, without the "potential pitfalls" of a straight scroll of Wish.
Certainly a worthwhile suggestion. Can I ask if you've got an example of the time your players actually used wish? It'd be interesting to see perhaps what out of the scenarios I'm think I've not yet considered.
So, I've been considering leaving a scroll of Wish in the next location my player characters will be exploring. Given that the adventure they're on is pretty dangerous and sometimes the players really do play into their characters and take inadvisable actions. My intention as a GM here is that if they get hold of a scroll of wish they've got the opportunity to undo a single choice that a character made.
As an example last session against the player's better judgement a character did something that all the warnings and foreshadowing suggested they shouldn't. They touched an artefact that turned unwitting people into an undead thrall of the location they were exploring. There was even a clear sign above the artefact - but said artefact was shiny and attractive to the character who had been left on their own. So in theory wish would be able to undo the decision to touch the artefact and thus would allow for a character that was others done to return to the group.
In this particular case, said use of wish would be implausible as no other character witnessed the now undead character touching the stone and thus there's no-one who has knowledge of the decision made. It just serves as a good example within a particularly dangerous campaign of how I'm intending Wish to be used. It's to provide a good solid safety net. To be clear, at my tables Wish can only be used according to the basic five options in the description of the spell along with the ability to alter one very specific choice. My players are of course aware of this interpretation of the spell so that's not an issue.
So with all that said, and context given have any other DMs had experience with such loot being left around the place? Did it go well or unexpectedly?
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
I haven't given a Spell Scroll of Wish, or other powerful expendables like that, but I think that giving that kind of magic to your players could go powerfully awry. Wish can break any game, even with the restrictions you've placed upon it. I think it would be okay, but don't randomly put it in a chest in some sunken dungeon. Make it something they have to work for, as a side quest or some other way where it is difficult to obtain.
He doesn't have much besides the skin on his bones. Me: I'll take the skin on his bones, then.
"You see a gigantic, monstrous praying mantis burst from out of the ground. It sprays a stream of acid from it's mouth at one soldier, dissolving him instantly, then it turns and chomps another soldier in half with it's- "
"When are we gonna take a snack break?"
Wish has a potential for utter chaos - think divine intervention, but bigger.
They may wish that the party member was freed from whatever curse, which is fine. But, they might instead wish for the power to remove all curses from anyone of their choosing. Or they might wish that the artifact never had such power.
There is honestly no way of knowing how they will use it, except that there is an almost 100% chance that they don't use it the way you're planning!
If you want to give them a macguffin which frees them from the curse, I would make it specific, and also leave them consequence - why have an artifact which turns people to undead thralls if you're not expecting it to affect the party, after all?
Perhaps a bracelet which offers the protection of the sun god, provided that they awaken before dawn and worship the sun rising. The bracelet has a handy bit of magic which wakes you up every. single. day. to perform this ritual. If you fail to perform the ritual, then the undead curse creeps back. Do it from solstice to solstice and the curse is broken.
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As a player, I once drew from a deck of many things and got a wish. I never ended up using it. There was a good bit of campaign we kept playing through, but I just held on to the thing like a security blanket. Just in case, I always had it sitting in my pocket, ready.
I’m not trying to say I’m universal, but there is a chance they think the same way. They want to hold it for some really big thing, but nothing ever seems to be big enough to qualify. So, not using it is also a possibility, and when I got it I doubt anyone, me included, thought that would happen.
So, I did try to get ahead of this sentiment by providing the context. The Wish spell is not actually all that powerful when you look at the core function of what it has the ability to do.
Then there is my addition and allowance to the spell. I allow one simple choice to be undone. It must be a character choice, and it must be a simple one: i.e. that the choice affects only one thing. So no 'if I undo this choice, then it'll affect this thing that also has this impact, that also has that impact.
There should be no GM looking at Wish and saying 'oh yeah it's really very powerful and can do all these crazy things'. Anything outside of this scope the player asks for does not have to be honoured by the GM, nor does it have to play out in the same way that the players thought it would.
Worse still for the player characters, the caster of this spell becomes much weaker immediately if they do anything other than duplicate a spell. Until the next long rest every spell they cast deals them 1d10 of necrotic damage per spell level and it reduces their strength score to 3 for 2d4 days (a minimum of 2 in game days, but an average of four). Even worse for the PC, they have a 1/3rd chance of never being able to cast the spell again. So the cost of casting this thing is truly awful. No 'let's cast wish and suddenly everything is going to be sunflowers and daisies'. It's a meaningful character choice: 'I will cast this spell at great cost to myself'.
Wish is not something to be afraid of as a GM and if people read the text and understood how the darn spell worked instead of listening to internet lore and bafflingly bad tiktokers and youtubers, I don't think GMs would be concerned about complications from these types of spells.
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
Separate post for a separate thought.
It wasn't a curse - it was outright the player character is gone. Dead. Their corpse then became undead with no autonomy. That was the point of the big scary, heavily foreshadowed artefact that is not to be touched. I rarely do things like this but this is the group's 4th campaign now. They've gone to levels 20, 12, and 16 respectively. They know enough that I don't hold back any more. If their characters make a silly mistake it'll cost the character in one way or another. To be clear, I wouldn't have such a dangerous item in a table of players at a game store because I don't know them or their expectations. Nor would it be put before a group of players newer to the game or me as GM. This was the right item, for the right table, for the right players. My own dislike of feeling too harsh is what is driving the desire to drop an item that can be used in case of silly mistake here. Not the players, who yeah are more likely to waste a Scroll of Wish than use it for something sensible which again is 100% okay and up to them. In one game they even had an artefact that was described as exceedingly powerful, but they never bothered to identify. It was capable of all the benefits of a long rest in a mere 1 minute of in game time.
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
Maybe, instead of offering a scroll of Wish, proffer a healing artifact or something with the core purpose of removing such ill effects and reviving the players. They can go about saving the other player from their current terrible fate, without the "potential pitfalls" of a straight scroll of Wish.
He doesn't have much besides the skin on his bones. Me: I'll take the skin on his bones, then.
"You see a gigantic, monstrous praying mantis burst from out of the ground. It sprays a stream of acid from it's mouth at one soldier, dissolving him instantly, then it turns and chomps another soldier in half with it's- "
"When are we gonna take a snack break?"
Certainly a worthwhile suggestion. Can I ask if you've got an example of the time your players actually used wish? It'd be interesting to see perhaps what out of the scenarios I'm think I've not yet considered.
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.