So when I have a player with an interesting idea, I hesitate to tell them no. When we work together to make something work, then everyone is happy, right? Well, while thinking all of this out, I'm running into some things that I need some help adjudicating.
So she came to me with the concept of a character that was born blind. At first level, she's going to be a human with the feat variant. With the Magic Initiate feat, she plans on snatching up acid splash, true strike, find familiar. Why? Well, Acid Splash is an attack cantrip which, mechanically, doesn't require you to see the target; True Strike will counter the disadvantage of attack rolls; Find Familiar gives her a little friend whose eyes she can use when necessary. While I admire her efforts to play within the rules, I pointed out that seeing through the familiar's eyes costs an action, and so (by the book) it's not going to counter her disadvantage from blindness, and relying True Strike is only going to let her effectively attack every other round. She said that she was willing to live with that, but it came up in the conversation that this is a rather crippling feature to toss into her PC, and so my first question to toss out to the forum is:
Would you give the PC something (a feature, a bonus, an extra feat, etc.) to counteract this permanent blindness?
Her next step was really interesting. Going into 2nd level, her warlock would take the Devil's Sight eldritch invocation, which lets the PC see normally in darkness up to 120 feet. Hmm... So she can't see normally, but turn off the lights (magically or otherwise) and she can see just fine? That actually seemed like an interesting character thing too! She planned on getting the darkness spell as a "light" to see by. But I had more questions:
If she can now see in darkness (magical or otherwise), that means she can see what's happening in the shadows, but not in the light.
Would she be able to see things happening in a distant shadow (but within 120 feet), much as someone would be able to with a far off object in torch light?
How does that work with things like dim light (kind of darkness, kind of light)? Is she now on par with the others, only lightly obscured, like everyone else?
So how would you rule on something like this? The "I just wouldn't allow it"s need not apply. Like I said, I want to work with my player to see how we can make her idea work.
1. In certain situations being blind would be an advantage, medusas, basilisks are gonna be seriously nerfed against a blind character. As long as you as the DM give the character the opportunity to use blindness advantageously, I wouldn't offer anything to offset it.
2. I like that idea, very cool. Even if the rules don't support it I'd run with it.
Would it hurt the game or the universe to allow the character to start at level 3? (Those early levels suck anyway) That way the character can have the mystical dark vision as well as a Chain Pact familiar to begin with - no need for the feat. There could then be many other darkness invocations and spells which the Warlock could start to acquire that would really blend into a cohesive character.
Then, a suggestion to let the Warlock fight relatively normally, give them Tremorsense or even Blindsense to a range of 10 just as a trade for their normal sight (a gift from the patron, why not?). With that they can "see" anything standing just near them or in darkness out to 120. Nothing overpowered in there, and plenty of color
I don't think it would be wrong to allow your player to see with Devil's Sight. You can even Homebrew a eldritch evocation that grants Blindsense or Tremorsense if you want.
However, I feel the player would be better off playing as a Druid rather than a Warlock. They will be able to use Wild Shape to transform into a beast at 2nd level and be able to use its senses instead of their own. They also gain access to Beast Sense at 3rd level.
You may want to look up DC's Dr. Mid-nite, a member of the JSA. His power is being able to see in darkness, whilst being otherwise blind. It may give you and the player various story ideas on how this all might work.
1. In certain situations being blind would be an advantage, medusas, basilisks are gonna be seriously nerfed against a blind character. As long as you as the DM give the character the opportunity to use blindness advantageously, I wouldn't offer anything to offset it.
2. I like that idea, very cool. Even if the rules don't support it I'd run with it.
3. I'd say yes.
4. I'd say yes.
I hadn't thought of the advantages against monsters and such. That's a great idea! :)
Would it hurt the game or the universe to allow the character to start at level 3? (Those early levels suck anyway) That way the character can have the mystical dark vision as well as a Chain Pact familiar to begin with - no need for the feat. There could then be many other darkness invocations and spells which the Warlock could start to acquire that would really blend into a cohesive character.
Then, a suggestion to let the Warlock fight relatively normally, give them Tremorsense or even Blindsense to a range of 10 just as a trade for their normal sight (a gift from the patron, why not?). With that they can "see" anything standing just near them or in darkness out to 120. Nothing overpowered in there, and plenty of color
She's coming to me with this as just a concept, and not for any specific game (yet). I would recommend as you do, so that she can skip those awkward first steps and skip the feat. A blindsense of 5 or 10 feet might not be a bad idea, either.
Have her visit a Cleric willing to cast Lesser Restoration. It cures blindness regardless of the cause.
Her idea is sort of a "deal with the devil" concept, making the pact with the promise of being granted sight, but the patron pulls a fast one on her, only allowing her
I don't think it would be wrong to allow your player to see with Devil's Sight. You can even Homebrew a eldritch evocation that grants Blindsense or Tremorsense if you want.
However, I feel the player would be better off playing as a Druid rather than a Warlock. They will be able to use Wild Shape to transform into a beast at 2nd level and be able to use its senses instead of their own. They also gain access to Beast Sense at 3rd level.
I thought of the druid too, but she really likes the "deal with the devil" idea and some of the other features the warlock offers. She was also experimenting with the idea of a hexblade warlock who used a whip instead of a sword. That seems kind of cool too, though I wonder how that will interact with the blindness stuff: a lot of those features involve things you can see, which often require seeing, so unless it's dark or dim, she'd have challenges.
You may want to look up DC's Dr. Mid-nite, a member of the JSA. His power is being able to see in darkness, whilst being otherwise blind. It may give you and the player various story ideas on how this all might work.
I hadn't thought of him, but he would be great inspiration. Thanks!
The player might not want to "fix" their blindness though, this seems to be more about working with the disability; which could be better for character roleplay and character development than just healing the blindness.
If it is fun for you and your player then I would say go for it.
However, I would suggest that her first level feat be Fighting Initiate: Blindfighting. This feat gives the character blindsight within 10' which could represent the character having learned to be very adept with all their other senses so that the character senses everything within 10' as if they could see it. The pre-requisite is proficiency with a martial weapon so RAW it works for Hexblade warlock and a number of races that receive proficiency in a martial weapon (however, as DM you could allow it or give them proficiency in some martial weapon as part of their background).
Devils sight is an interesting option. However, remember it is NOT darkvision. It allows the warlock "to see" in darkness as if it was well lit. It does nothing in dim light or well lit conditions. The darkness spell will create a 15' radius area where the character can see normally but if the rest is brightly lit or dimly lit then their vision will be constrained to the 15' radius sphere.
However, if the party was walking along a darkened tunnel holding a torch which illuminates 20' bright and an additional 20' dark, they would be able to see normally from 40' to 120' but see nothing in the lit region. If this was combined with the 10' of blindsight from the fighting initiate option, then they could see normally from 0-10 and 40-120. In addition, if the party was standing 20' from the entrance to a tomb during the day where the daylight was providing 30' of bright lighting and another 30' of dim lighting before the tomb became dark then the warlock would still see into the tomb from 80-120' (20' from entrance + 30' bright + 30' dim). The rest of the party could see the entrance area but the warlock would be blind there.
If she can now see in darkness (magical or otherwise), that means she can see what's happening in the shadows, but not in the light.
Nope. RAW devils sight only works in darkness (magical or otherwise) it does not work in shadow (dim light). So in dim light they would still be blinded.
Would she be able to see things happening in a distant shadow (but within 120 feet), much as someone would be able to with a far off object in torch light?
Yes and no. She could see anything happening in darkness within 120'. Whether the intervening space is lit or not has no effect on the regions she can see. However, if there was someone holding a torch at 100', she would be blind to the area of light (bright and dim).
How does that work with things like dim light (kind of darkness, kind of light)? Is she now on par with the others, only lightly obscured, like everyone else?
She would remain blinded in regions of dim light since RAW, Devils sight only works in darkness.
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It would be an interesting role playing challenge and the disability would be a significant handicap except in darkness when they could see normally. The character might become nocturnal :) ... however, 10' blindsight would allow the character some ability to function when the party is out and about during the day.
P.S. Spells that require the character to see their targets may become an issue as the character progresses. Also, if the blindness somehow gets cured (or their devils sight invocation improved) then the Fighting Initiate choice of blindfighting can always be swapped with another fighting style as the character levels up (it can be swapped at any level they get an ASI) - though 10' blindsight might be integral to the character so the player may decide to keep it.
In real life, people born blind gain superior powers of perception through their other senses. Some even learn to use their hearing in a fashion similar to whales' echolocation to effectively see. If your PC can do this, I would say that the best way to go might be to give the character blindsight (out to either 30ft or 60ft) and have them be blind beyond that radius.
In addition, I'd like to leave a note on spells (like Eldritch Blast) that require you to see a target. I personally don't usually use those restrictions anyway, and it won't be gamebreaking for your warlock to cast those spells using the rules for weapon attacks out to their normal range. Of course, targets outside your blindsight are still "unseen."
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Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
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So when I have a player with an interesting idea, I hesitate to tell them no. When we work together to make something work, then everyone is happy, right? Well, while thinking all of this out, I'm running into some things that I need some help adjudicating.
So she came to me with the concept of a character that was born blind. At first level, she's going to be a human with the feat variant. With the Magic Initiate feat, she plans on snatching up acid splash, true strike, find familiar. Why? Well, Acid Splash is an attack cantrip which, mechanically, doesn't require you to see the target; True Strike will counter the disadvantage of attack rolls; Find Familiar gives her a little friend whose eyes she can use when necessary. While I admire her efforts to play within the rules, I pointed out that seeing through the familiar's eyes costs an action, and so (by the book) it's not going to counter her disadvantage from blindness, and relying True Strike is only going to let her effectively attack every other round. She said that she was willing to live with that, but it came up in the conversation that this is a rather crippling feature to toss into her PC, and so my first question to toss out to the forum is:
Would you give the PC something (a feature, a bonus, an extra feat, etc.) to counteract this permanent blindness?
Her next step was really interesting. Going into 2nd level, her warlock would take the Devil's Sight eldritch invocation, which lets the PC see normally in darkness up to 120 feet. Hmm... So she can't see normally, but turn off the lights (magically or otherwise) and she can see just fine? That actually seemed like an interesting character thing too! She planned on getting the darkness spell as a "light" to see by. But I had more questions:
If she can now see in darkness (magical or otherwise), that means she can see what's happening in the shadows, but not in the light.
Would she be able to see things happening in a distant shadow (but within 120 feet), much as someone would be able to with a far off object in torch light?
How does that work with things like dim light (kind of darkness, kind of light)? Is she now on par with the others, only lightly obscured, like everyone else?
So how would you rule on something like this? The "I just wouldn't allow it"s need not apply. Like I said, I want to work with my player to see how we can make her idea work.
1. In certain situations being blind would be an advantage, medusas, basilisks are gonna be seriously nerfed against a blind character. As long as you as the DM give the character the opportunity to use blindness advantageously, I wouldn't offer anything to offset it.
2. I like that idea, very cool. Even if the rules don't support it I'd run with it.
3. I'd say yes.
4. I'd say yes.
Would it hurt the game or the universe to allow the character to start at level 3? (Those early levels suck anyway) That way the character can have the mystical dark vision as well as a Chain Pact familiar to begin with - no need for the feat. There could then be many other darkness invocations and spells which the Warlock could start to acquire that would really blend into a cohesive character.
Then, a suggestion to let the Warlock fight relatively normally, give them Tremorsense or even Blindsense to a range of 10 just as a trade for their normal sight (a gift from the patron, why not?). With that they can "see" anything standing just near them or in darkness out to 120. Nothing overpowered in there, and plenty of color
Have her visit a Cleric willing to cast Lesser Restoration. It cures blindness regardless of the cause.
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Love this. I say run with it and follow the rules that make the most fun.
I don't think it would be wrong to allow your player to see with Devil's Sight. You can even Homebrew a eldritch evocation that grants Blindsense or Tremorsense if you want.
However, I feel the player would be better off playing as a Druid rather than a Warlock. They will be able to use Wild Shape to transform into a beast at 2nd level and be able to use its senses instead of their own. They also gain access to Beast Sense at 3rd level.
You may want to look up DC's Dr. Mid-nite, a member of the JSA. His power is being able to see in darkness, whilst being otherwise blind. It may give you and the player various story ideas on how this all might work.
Excellent feedback, everyone! Thanks for the input!
I hadn't thought of the advantages against monsters and such. That's a great idea! :)
She's coming to me with this as just a concept, and not for any specific game (yet). I would recommend as you do, so that she can skip those awkward first steps and skip the feat. A blindsense of 5 or 10 feet might not be a bad idea, either.
Her idea is sort of a "deal with the devil" concept, making the pact with the promise of being granted sight, but the patron pulls a fast one on her, only allowing her
It's a cool idea, isn't it?
I thought of the druid too, but she really likes the "deal with the devil" idea and some of the other features the warlock offers. She was also experimenting with the idea of a hexblade warlock who used a whip instead of a sword. That seems kind of cool too, though I wonder how that will interact with the blindness stuff: a lot of those features involve things you can see, which often require seeing, so unless it's dark or dim, she'd have challenges.
I hadn't thought of him, but he would be great inspiration. Thanks!
The player might not want to "fix" their blindness though, this seems to be more about working with the disability; which could be better for character roleplay and character development than just healing the blindness.
If it is fun for you and your player then I would say go for it.
However, I would suggest that her first level feat be Fighting Initiate: Blindfighting. This feat gives the character blindsight within 10' which could represent the character having learned to be very adept with all their other senses so that the character senses everything within 10' as if they could see it. The pre-requisite is proficiency with a martial weapon so RAW it works for Hexblade warlock and a number of races that receive proficiency in a martial weapon (however, as DM you could allow it or give them proficiency in some martial weapon as part of their background).
Devils sight is an interesting option. However, remember it is NOT darkvision. It allows the warlock "to see" in darkness as if it was well lit. It does nothing in dim light or well lit conditions. The darkness spell will create a 15' radius area where the character can see normally but if the rest is brightly lit or dimly lit then their vision will be constrained to the 15' radius sphere.
However, if the party was walking along a darkened tunnel holding a torch which illuminates 20' bright and an additional 20' dark, they would be able to see normally from 40' to 120' but see nothing in the lit region. If this was combined with the 10' of blindsight from the fighting initiate option, then they could see normally from 0-10 and 40-120. In addition, if the party was standing 20' from the entrance to a tomb during the day where the daylight was providing 30' of bright lighting and another 30' of dim lighting before the tomb became dark then the warlock would still see into the tomb from 80-120' (20' from entrance + 30' bright + 30' dim). The rest of the party could see the entrance area but the warlock would be blind there.
If she can now see in darkness (magical or otherwise), that means she can see what's happening in the shadows, but not in the light.
Nope. RAW devils sight only works in darkness (magical or otherwise) it does not work in shadow (dim light). So in dim light they would still be blinded.
Would she be able to see things happening in a distant shadow (but within 120 feet), much as someone would be able to with a far off object in torch light?
Yes and no. She could see anything happening in darkness within 120'. Whether the intervening space is lit or not has no effect on the regions she can see. However, if there was someone holding a torch at 100', she would be blind to the area of light (bright and dim).
How does that work with things like dim light (kind of darkness, kind of light)? Is she now on par with the others, only lightly obscured, like everyone else?
She would remain blinded in regions of dim light since RAW, Devils sight only works in darkness.
------------
It would be an interesting role playing challenge and the disability would be a significant handicap except in darkness when they could see normally. The character might become nocturnal :) ... however, 10' blindsight would allow the character some ability to function when the party is out and about during the day.
P.S. Spells that require the character to see their targets may become an issue as the character progresses. Also, if the blindness somehow gets cured (or their devils sight invocation improved) then the Fighting Initiate choice of blindfighting can always be swapped with another fighting style as the character levels up (it can be swapped at any level they get an ASI) - though 10' blindsight might be integral to the character so the player may decide to keep it.
In real life, people born blind gain superior powers of perception through their other senses. Some even learn to use their hearing in a fashion similar to whales' echolocation to effectively see. If your PC can do this, I would say that the best way to go might be to give the character blindsight (out to either 30ft or 60ft) and have them be blind beyond that radius.
In addition, I'd like to leave a note on spells (like Eldritch Blast) that require you to see a target. I personally don't usually use those restrictions anyway, and it won't be gamebreaking for your warlock to cast those spells using the rules for weapon attacks out to their normal range. Of course, targets outside your blindsight are still "unseen."
Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair