Just recently, I started out with a brand new group. I already DM one group, and I thought this would be pretty easy, especially because I’m only running LMoP.
After some explaining of the rules, we started the adventure.
I perfectly understand the inexperience all new players succumb to. I understand the inclination to being a murder hobo. But it kills me when all I see are people spamming attack.
Four of the new players wanted something easier, so they took martial classes. (Barbarian, Rogue, fighter, and Ranger) But I think they wildly misunderstood how each class is different from each other. I think the other two saw how the fighter works, and decided to do the same thing. The Barbarian has only raged once (after I suggested he do so) and the rest of the classes have only used the attack action on their turns. I tried to lead by example And make the monsters have creative attacks. For example, I made one of the goblins a wizard. He casts jump on one of the boss goblins, and the players see a goblin come flying across the room, clearing 30 feet in one jump.
They need to know that grappling an enemy and shoving their face into s bed of hot coals is a viable option. They are so used to playing video Games, that they perceive D&D as one big video game. In a video game there is buttons for moving, and attacking. But I don’t see a button for diplomacy.
I need to get them out of the mindset that the only way to solve a problem is to repeatedly do the same thing, over and over again.
If they haven't moved on from basic attacks they haven't learned the rules and mechanics and dont need to because the fights are way too easy.
You are going to have to design a few encounters that they can't win without using good tactics, and then help them out through those encounters so they learn how to use their abilities.
The 5e combat system is pretty simple but people don't read the rules, they figure it out around the table. You will have to be the expert and teach them about bonus actions, spitting movement, reactions, gaining advantage, attacks of opportunity and how to avoid them, and other needful things.
Also, you can only teach so much. There's a guy playing a bard in my group that refuses to ever disengage to avoid melee even though he constantly takes damage and loses concentration.
I wouldn't say harder encounters, exactly, but try an encounter where swinging a sword doesn't do anything. Maybe the npc characters are immaterial or they are far away, plinking away with ranged weapons. Maybe it is two groups of NPCs charmed into fighting each other. I know you are running a module, but they might just need a little side quest to make them think creatively.
If they are new to the game ... do they know the "action economy" during a turn? Let them face enemies with spears (for examples of reach), a terrain that "moves" or has safe and unsafe zones (so they have to move from raft to raft (disengage, dash), shoot at them from a hidden location, so they have to seek cover.
If your players are not familiar with the rules, they might not even know why they should use class abilities and how to use them.
"Just as you raise your sword to strike the goblin down, he cowers at your feet with a petite squeal. 'Don't kill me! You'll never find your dwarf without me!' "
There are incentives for using diplomacy, mainly information. Since you're playing Lost Mines, have you made it to Phandalin yet? The town is a good opportunity to show how much players can gain from RP and using skills and spells. If your ranger has healing spells, maybe someone in town needs help or Sister Garaele asks for your aid. Halia Thornton might have use for the skills of a rogue. A half-orc miner bets 5 gold he can beat your barbarian in a battle of fisticuffs (if the barbarian doesn't rage and misses out on that damage reduction, worst case he just gets knocked out). I think giving out of combat opportunities that suit each player's skill set may help them see their differences.
Also use encounters with different goals. For example, the dreaded escort quest!
For teaching tactics the rule is, as always, show, don't tell.
Next fight, have one of the foes shove someone into a fire. Set the fight after that on the edge of a cliff and see if any of the players think to shove foes off the edge. If they don't think to do it then do it to one of them.
Have someone disarm the PC then run away. Sure, the PC can make an attack of opportunity but it will have to be an unarmed attack, doing 1+STR damage. For a bit of synergy, have one foe disarm a PC and another foe grab the weapon (perhaps at range using something like mage hand).
Use lots of terrain. A flat plain is boring. A grassy area with a creek running in the middle (knock someone prone and they start drowning) is more interesting. Throw some rocks in, with archers popping out, shooting, then ducking back into full cover, and the fight gets much more entertaining.
If a PC goes down, have someone drag them away (for example, goblins working together using the Help Action to get Advantage on Knock Prone attempts, then their companion wolves attacking downed PCs and attempting to drag them away).
Always, always, always mix enemy types. For example, archers should be paired with meleers keeping PCs away from the ranged attackers.
Why not write up some index cards with a bullet list of character options they have, then on the back post various general suggestions (is there environmental hazards you can use, can you intimidate/persuade to get your way, can you set a trap/ambush, etc)? Maybe join them with an NPC briefly and demonstrate alternative methods to dealing with encounters. Open up some minds and lead by example.
It sounds like they need help understanding that they aren't bound in a way they think they are bound.
I would suggest fewer combat encounters. Shift the focus a bit. Doing more role-play/puzzle like encounters for a session or two may help them understand that they have more options than some video game. Once they get outside of that mindset they should start to do better and you can move back into combat encounters.
Thanks for all the tips. Perhaps I overreacted, and just need to get used to the fact that it takes time to learn. I'll definitely inform them more, and hopefully accelerate the learning curve a bit. They are really enjoying the game, and that's what matters.
If they're having fun, then you're already doing great!
I'm going to throw my vote behind the other people suggesting non-combat encounters. If nothing else, this will force them to think outside the "I swing my sword at it" mentality. You might have a small dungeon or temple on the way (yeah, you might have to think outside the starter set box for this) in which the same puzzle exists in two different rooms. The difference? Room one has a pressure plate, and a barrel full of fish. Room two? No such barrel, but maaaaybe one of those Kobolds will do the job. Then they'll start thinking of their enemies as not only corpsicles in the making, but also as simply another element in the broader puzzle that is the game.
Perhaps later on, you can have one of your characters roll insight during a fight, and then tell them "seeing your enemy edging backwards toward the clifftop, you suddenly remember [INSERT DUNGEON NAME HERE], and the urge to grin evilly crosses your mind". Start connecting the dots from encounter to encounter, and you should hopefully see some love.
Not sure if you are still seeking advice on this or not however i'll throw my two-bits in.
My group started as a few people who wanted to play but never had the chance so i offer to DM and write up a campaign for them. During the first session i realized my PCs hadn't spent any time brushing up on how d&d works. So i proceed to explain the basic concepts and mechanics and they fell into the exact problem you are describing.
My solution was i created a NPC that was a wizard named Merlin (original right?) but i played as Merlin and his personality was that of the gruff mentor character that is "getting to old for this $#&@". That wizard proceeded to scare the religion out of the PCs as he showed them just what a bit of imagination is capable of in D&D. It also caused a great heartfelt moment when i (intentionally (but don't tell the PCs that)) killed him off when my party started spreading their wings a little bit.
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Just recently, I started out with a brand new group. I already DM one group, and I thought this would be pretty easy, especially because I’m only running LMoP.
After some explaining of the rules, we started the adventure.
I perfectly understand the inexperience all new players succumb to. I understand the inclination to being a murder hobo. But it kills me when all I see are people spamming attack.
Four of the new players wanted something easier, so they took martial classes. (Barbarian, Rogue, fighter, and Ranger) But I think they wildly misunderstood how each class is different from each other. I think the other two saw how the fighter works, and decided to do the same thing. The Barbarian has only raged once (after I suggested he do so) and the rest of the classes have only used the attack action on their turns. I tried to lead by example And make the monsters have creative attacks. For example, I made one of the goblins a wizard. He casts jump on one of the boss goblins, and the players see a goblin come flying across the room, clearing 30 feet in one jump.
They need to know that grappling an enemy and shoving their face into s bed of hot coals is a viable option. They are so used to playing video Games, that they perceive D&D as one big video game. In a video game there is buttons for moving, and attacking. But I don’t see a button for diplomacy.
I need to get them out of the mindset that the only way to solve a problem is to repeatedly do the same thing, over and over again.
TLDR - present them with much harder encounters.
If they haven't moved on from basic attacks they haven't learned the rules and mechanics and dont need to because the fights are way too easy.
You are going to have to design a few encounters that they can't win without using good tactics, and then help them out through those encounters so they learn how to use their abilities.
The 5e combat system is pretty simple but people don't read the rules, they figure it out around the table. You will have to be the expert and teach them about bonus actions, spitting movement, reactions, gaining advantage, attacks of opportunity and how to avoid them, and other needful things.
Also, you can only teach so much. There's a guy playing a bard in my group that refuses to ever disengage to avoid melee even though he constantly takes damage and loses concentration.
I wouldn't say harder encounters, exactly, but try an encounter where swinging a sword doesn't do anything. Maybe the npc characters are immaterial or they are far away, plinking away with ranged weapons. Maybe it is two groups of NPCs charmed into fighting each other. I know you are running a module, but they might just need a little side quest to make them think creatively.
If they are new to the game ... do they know the "action economy" during a turn?
Let them face enemies with spears (for examples of reach), a terrain that "moves" or has safe and unsafe zones (so they have to move from raft to raft (disengage, dash), shoot at them from a hidden location, so they have to seek cover.
If your players are not familiar with the rules, they might not even know why they should use class abilities and how to use them.
"Just as you raise your sword to strike the goblin down, he cowers at your feet with a petite squeal. 'Don't kill me! You'll never find your dwarf without me!' "
There are incentives for using diplomacy, mainly information. Since you're playing Lost Mines, have you made it to Phandalin yet? The town is a good opportunity to show how much players can gain from RP and using skills and spells. If your ranger has healing spells, maybe someone in town needs help or Sister Garaele asks for your aid. Halia Thornton might have use for the skills of a rogue. A half-orc miner bets 5 gold he can beat your barbarian in a battle of fisticuffs (if the barbarian doesn't rage and misses out on that damage reduction, worst case he just gets knocked out). I think giving out of combat opportunities that suit each player's skill set may help them see their differences.
Also use encounters with different goals. For example, the dreaded escort quest!
For teaching tactics the rule is, as always, show, don't tell.
Next fight, have one of the foes shove someone into a fire. Set the fight after that on the edge of a cliff and see if any of the players think to shove foes off the edge. If they don't think to do it then do it to one of them.
Have someone disarm the PC then run away. Sure, the PC can make an attack of opportunity but it will have to be an unarmed attack, doing 1+STR damage. For a bit of synergy, have one foe disarm a PC and another foe grab the weapon (perhaps at range using something like mage hand).
Use lots of terrain. A flat plain is boring. A grassy area with a creek running in the middle (knock someone prone and they start drowning) is more interesting. Throw some rocks in, with archers popping out, shooting, then ducking back into full cover, and the fight gets much more entertaining.
If a PC goes down, have someone drag them away (for example, goblins working together using the Help Action to get Advantage on Knock Prone attempts, then their companion wolves attacking downed PCs and attempting to drag them away).
Always, always, always mix enemy types. For example, archers should be paired with meleers keeping PCs away from the ranged attackers.
Why not write up some index cards with a bullet list of character options they have, then on the back post various general suggestions (is there environmental hazards you can use, can you intimidate/persuade to get your way, can you set a trap/ambush, etc)? Maybe join them with an NPC briefly and demonstrate alternative methods to dealing with encounters. Open up some minds and lead by example.
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It sounds like they need help understanding that they aren't bound in a way they think they are bound.
I would suggest fewer combat encounters. Shift the focus a bit. Doing more role-play/puzzle like encounters for a session or two may help them understand that they have more options than some video game. Once they get outside of that mindset they should start to do better and you can move back into combat encounters.
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Thanks for all the tips. Perhaps I overreacted, and just need to get used to the fact that it takes time to learn. I'll definitely inform them more, and hopefully accelerate the learning curve a bit. They are really enjoying the game, and that's what matters.
If they're having fun, then you're already doing great!
I'm going to throw my vote behind the other people suggesting non-combat encounters. If nothing else, this will force them to think outside the "I swing my sword at it" mentality. You might have a small dungeon or temple on the way (yeah, you might have to think outside the starter set box for this) in which the same puzzle exists in two different rooms. The difference? Room one has a pressure plate, and a barrel full of fish. Room two? No such barrel, but maaaaybe one of those Kobolds will do the job. Then they'll start thinking of their enemies as not only corpsicles in the making, but also as simply another element in the broader puzzle that is the game.
Perhaps later on, you can have one of your characters roll insight during a fight, and then tell them "seeing your enemy edging backwards toward the clifftop, you suddenly remember [INSERT DUNGEON NAME HERE], and the urge to grin evilly crosses your mind". Start connecting the dots from encounter to encounter, and you should hopefully see some love.
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Also if you want some puzzle ideas, look at the Legend of Zelda series for inspiration. They have some incredible puzzle ideas.
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Krymsyn
Not sure if you are still seeking advice on this or not however i'll throw my two-bits in.
My group started as a few people who wanted to play but never had the chance so i offer to DM and write up a campaign for them. During the first session i realized my PCs hadn't spent any time brushing up on how d&d works. So i proceed to explain the basic concepts and mechanics and they fell into the exact problem you are describing.
My solution was i created a NPC that was a wizard named Merlin (original right?) but i played as Merlin and his personality was that of the gruff mentor character that is "getting to old for this $#&@". That wizard proceeded to scare the religion out of the PCs as he showed them just what a bit of imagination is capable of in D&D. It also caused a great heartfelt moment when i (intentionally (but don't tell the PCs that)) killed him off when my party started spreading their wings a little bit.