I have been a fan of the NPC Durnan for many years now enjoying his gruff but usually fair persona and the fact he is very knowledgeable about the goings-on in Waterdeep and Undermountain as well. One thing that disturbed me, however, was when re-reading an old novel I have in my collection, one of the Nobles series, Volume 3 titled "Escape from Undermountain". In the novel, in the beginning, it tells the story of a group of adventuring friends who have endeavored to steal the crystal gem in the statue of Savras the All-Seeing which is located in Undermountain. I am unsure if it is the same statue known as the Grim Statue, which is also headless I believe, and shoots lightning bolts from its hands every so often and has an entrance from the surface via a crawl tunnel above its head.
Either way, in the story, they narrowly escape the chamber through a portal (now destroyed) and manage to make it through the rest of the Dungeon Level (Level 1) to the Well Entry when disaster hits them in the form of a ravenous horde of giant rats. The first one to die from the horde is Trisa, the beautiful female thief, who has her throat ripped out as a giant rat pounces on her from a hidden spot. The second one to die is the mage Sulbrin, who trips and falls, leaving himself fatally exposed to the scurrying horde on their heels. The final member of the so-called "Company of the Red Wolf", Jardin the fighter manages to make it to the Rope in the Entry Well, climbing to supposed safety, but in the process, a last attempt to get him by the giant rats sees a persistent vermin jump at him, missing, but catching the leather of his pouch which he gnaws loose, spilling the contents of gold and.....the Eye of Savras. HE continues to climb the rope and makes it to safety only to be stopped at the top of the rope by either Durnan himself (the story only describes a "grizzled man") or one of his staff members who halts the surviving Jardin as he attempts to climb to the edge of the well and to safety. He asks Jardin for the customary toll of 1 gold piece to exit the well. Jardin discovering he no longer has any gold on him offers to pay him once he can go retrieve more gold but the cold-hearted bastard simply orders "Cut the Rope" sending Jardin to his death.
This single action is the reason for my thread. Durnan has always been described to my knowledge as a GOOD person. He may be gruff, even grouchy at times, but is surely no murderer. I argue that despite the man's lack of gold, Any good-aligned person would NEVER EVER send a man to his death for lacking a gold piece. To my mind, this example of greediness is more akin to Neutral Evil than Neutral Good. This is why I am disputing his tradition of demanding the gold piece toll. There is nothing wrong with him profiting from adventurers using the well entrance to enter Undermountain. Business is business. A man needs to earn a living. However, if he is that greedy that he can't let a poor, unfortunate soul work his gold piece off in the kitchens doing dishes, mopping floors, cleaning up, serving customers, cleaning out the stables or generally working off his debt, then I beg to differ with his Neutral Good alignment which is how he has been listed through 2nd edition until today. A neutral good person does not send another man to his death simply because misfortune hit a man and left him penniless by circumstance when he left Undermountain. A man should also be able to pay upfront his gold piece (just in case). There is a priest of Tymora in the Inn almost all the time. They work in shifts, to take the names of those entering Undermountain and to offer healing services, should they be in need of it upon returning (for a fee of course) A man should be allowed to work off his debt or have someone accompany him to his abode to fetch the missing money (along with a hefty tip for the hassle of doing it) and pay his debt to Durnan.
Durnan is not a "good" person. He's been driven slightly mad by his exposure to Undermountain. He's also very greedy in the fact that he will take wagers from patrons on who will make it back out of Undermountain.
He's over 200 years old and insane.
There's some more on it in Dungeon of The Mad Mage.
Durnan is neutral in Dragon Heist, that's the alignment assigned to him.
Durnan isn't evil, but he certainly is a firm believer in "Survival of the Fittest." He isn't greedy in my games. He didn't kill Jardin, or at least he doesn't think he does. In his point of view, Jardin was already dead, he failed to survive the trials of the dungeon, and that fact is why he ordered the rope to be cut.
In my games, he has sympathy, sometimes. He isn't merciful. He isn't compassionate, nice, happy, or anything like that. He is in fact devoid of most emotions. He is mostly empty. Not sad, just he's an old soul. He has some firm beliefs in somethings, and is just when he sees people trying to bend his rules.
He is so firm in belief that everyone must fend for themselves that he sees himself as an agent of his own ideology.
It does make sense that he's such a loner as well, because he and Mirt and anyone else that was in their adventuring party had some kind of falling out, and they're not members of an adventuring party anymore. He is kind of tragic. He's seen his great, great, great, great grandchildren grow old and die. His wife died of old age years ago. His friends are all gone.
In truth, he is a good person, or at least he thinks so. He has protected Waterdeep from evil many times. He used to be a Hidden Lord of Waterdeep. He started a faction of vigilantes in Waterdeep to stop crime more than a hundred years ago. He "loves" the city he lives in, and does what he can to protect it.
In a way, he is protecting it by running the Yawning Portal. He sends adventurers into Undermountain, where sometimes they slay monsters, bring back treasure to make the city richer, and kill criminals and bandits in Skullport. He thinks that he is protecting the city, whether that statement is true or not.
I disagree with The_Glimpse on this subject here. He certainly isn't a good person, but he is "honorable" in a weird way. He isn't insane, he's just a tragedy made by being an immortal adventurer. He's not greedy, in his mind there is absolutely nothing wrong with charging people to go into the Yawning Portal. He thinks that this is a noble act, because most adventurers never return from the Well.
If they go in the Well with the gold piece and never return, than they've given more money to Halaster. He is essentially robbing Halaster one gold per adventurer.
The reason he collects the money is to help pay for the tavern and to help his descendants. He's not greedy, he just doesn't see anything wrong with requiring a gold piece to enter or exit Undermountain. If he allows anyone to exit Undermountain without paying one gold piece, he is breaking an essential part of his moral code, and that is unacceptable to him. If someone presses him on it, like Jardin, he deals his equivelant of justice. He's not lawful in alignment, but everyone follows their own rules, and his dictate that he must show no mercy, because then they are depending on him, and he wants no one to depend on him, to be dependent at all, and he never, ever will be dependent of anyone.
Long story short, Durnan is complicated.
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Durnan is neutral in Dragon Heist, that's the alignment assigned to him.
I disagree with The_Glimpse on this subject here. He certainly isn't a good person, but he is "honorable" in a weird way.
Long story short, Durnan is complicated.
Snipped, but an insane person could view their actions as good and still be honorable. He does live up to his own code. I do agree, he is a complicated character and should be played as such.
There are effects Undermountain has on people, especially if they are in proximity, which is why I maintain the insanity angle.
A different game system entirely, but I mainly play a Malkavian in Vampire, he is a paranoid schizophrenic conspiracy theorist, and some of the things he does, or arranges to do, a sane person would find horrific, but in his mind, they are logical decisions based on the "rational" thoughts of his world view.
Undermountain does drive people insane, but Durnan isn't to that point yet. It is more like an obsession for him. He's obsessed with undermountain, and it has a hold on him, but he's not quite insane.
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I have been a fan of the NPC Durnan for many years now enjoying his gruff but usually fair persona and the fact he is very knowledgeable about the goings-on in Waterdeep and Undermountain as well. One thing that disturbed me, however, was when re-reading an old novel I have in my collection, one of the Nobles series, Volume 3 titled "Escape from Undermountain". In the novel, in the beginning, it tells the story of a group of adventuring friends who have endeavored to steal the crystal gem in the statue of Savras the All-Seeing which is located in Undermountain. I am unsure if it is the same statue known as the Grim Statue, which is also headless I believe, and shoots lightning bolts from its hands every so often and has an entrance from the surface via a crawl tunnel above its head.
Either way, in the story, they narrowly escape the chamber through a portal (now destroyed) and manage to make it through the rest of the Dungeon Level (Level 1) to the Well Entry when disaster hits them in the form of a ravenous horde of giant rats. The first one to die from the horde is Trisa, the beautiful female thief, who has her throat ripped out as a giant rat pounces on her from a hidden spot. The second one to die is the mage Sulbrin, who trips and falls, leaving himself fatally exposed to the scurrying horde on their heels. The final member of the so-called "Company of the Red Wolf", Jardin the fighter manages to make it to the Rope in the Entry Well, climbing to supposed safety, but in the process, a last attempt to get him by the giant rats sees a persistent vermin jump at him, missing, but catching the leather of his pouch which he gnaws loose, spilling the contents of gold and.....the Eye of Savras. HE continues to climb the rope and makes it to safety only to be stopped at the top of the rope by either Durnan himself (the story only describes a "grizzled man") or one of his staff members who halts the surviving Jardin as he attempts to climb to the edge of the well and to safety. He asks Jardin for the customary toll of 1 gold piece to exit the well. Jardin discovering he no longer has any gold on him offers to pay him once he can go retrieve more gold but the cold-hearted bastard simply orders "Cut the Rope" sending Jardin to his death.
This single action is the reason for my thread. Durnan has always been described to my knowledge as a GOOD person. He may be gruff, even grouchy at times, but is surely no murderer. I argue that despite the man's lack of gold, Any good-aligned person would NEVER EVER send a man to his death for lacking a gold piece. To my mind, this example of greediness is more akin to Neutral Evil than Neutral Good. This is why I am disputing his tradition of demanding the gold piece toll. There is nothing wrong with him profiting from adventurers using the well entrance to enter Undermountain. Business is business. A man needs to earn a living. However, if he is that greedy that he can't let a poor, unfortunate soul work his gold piece off in the kitchens doing dishes, mopping floors, cleaning up, serving customers, cleaning out the stables or generally working off his debt, then I beg to differ with his Neutral Good alignment which is how he has been listed through 2nd edition until today. A neutral good person does not send another man to his death simply because misfortune hit a man and left him penniless by circumstance when he left Undermountain. A man should also be able to pay upfront his gold piece (just in case). There is a priest of Tymora in the Inn almost all the time. They work in shifts, to take the names of those entering Undermountain and to offer healing services, should they be in need of it upon returning (for a fee of course) A man should be allowed to work off his debt or have someone accompany him to his abode to fetch the missing money (along with a hefty tip for the hassle of doing it) and pay his debt to Durnan.
Durnan is not a "good" person. He's been driven slightly mad by his exposure to Undermountain. He's also very greedy in the fact that he will take wagers from patrons on who will make it back out of Undermountain.
He's over 200 years old and insane.
There's some more on it in Dungeon of The Mad Mage.
Durnan is neutral in Dragon Heist, that's the alignment assigned to him.
Durnan isn't evil, but he certainly is a firm believer in "Survival of the Fittest." He isn't greedy in my games. He didn't kill Jardin, or at least he doesn't think he does. In his point of view, Jardin was already dead, he failed to survive the trials of the dungeon, and that fact is why he ordered the rope to be cut.
In my games, he has sympathy, sometimes. He isn't merciful. He isn't compassionate, nice, happy, or anything like that. He is in fact devoid of most emotions. He is mostly empty. Not sad, just he's an old soul. He has some firm beliefs in somethings, and is just when he sees people trying to bend his rules.
He is so firm in belief that everyone must fend for themselves that he sees himself as an agent of his own ideology.
It does make sense that he's such a loner as well, because he and Mirt and anyone else that was in their adventuring party had some kind of falling out, and they're not members of an adventuring party anymore. He is kind of tragic. He's seen his great, great, great, great grandchildren grow old and die. His wife died of old age years ago. His friends are all gone.
In truth, he is a good person, or at least he thinks so. He has protected Waterdeep from evil many times. He used to be a Hidden Lord of Waterdeep. He started a faction of vigilantes in Waterdeep to stop crime more than a hundred years ago. He "loves" the city he lives in, and does what he can to protect it.
In a way, he is protecting it by running the Yawning Portal. He sends adventurers into Undermountain, where sometimes they slay monsters, bring back treasure to make the city richer, and kill criminals and bandits in Skullport. He thinks that he is protecting the city, whether that statement is true or not.
I disagree with The_Glimpse on this subject here. He certainly isn't a good person, but he is "honorable" in a weird way. He isn't insane, he's just a tragedy made by being an immortal adventurer. He's not greedy, in his mind there is absolutely nothing wrong with charging people to go into the Yawning Portal. He thinks that this is a noble act, because most adventurers never return from the Well.
If they go in the Well with the gold piece and never return, than they've given more money to Halaster. He is essentially robbing Halaster one gold per adventurer.
The reason he collects the money is to help pay for the tavern and to help his descendants. He's not greedy, he just doesn't see anything wrong with requiring a gold piece to enter or exit Undermountain. If he allows anyone to exit Undermountain without paying one gold piece, he is breaking an essential part of his moral code, and that is unacceptable to him. If someone presses him on it, like Jardin, he deals his equivelant of justice. He's not lawful in alignment, but everyone follows their own rules, and his dictate that he must show no mercy, because then they are depending on him, and he wants no one to depend on him, to be dependent at all, and he never, ever will be dependent of anyone.
Long story short, Durnan is complicated.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
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Snipped, but an insane person could view their actions as good and still be honorable. He does live up to his own code. I do agree, he is a complicated character and should be played as such.
There are effects Undermountain has on people, especially if they are in proximity, which is why I maintain the insanity angle.
A different game system entirely, but I mainly play a Malkavian in Vampire, he is a paranoid schizophrenic conspiracy theorist, and some of the things he does, or arranges to do, a sane person would find horrific, but in his mind, they are logical decisions based on the "rational" thoughts of his world view.
Undermountain does drive people insane, but Durnan isn't to that point yet. It is more like an obsession for him. He's obsessed with undermountain, and it has a hold on him, but he's not quite insane.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.