As suggested by Capt0bv10u5, I am exploring a bit more the HP-for-stuff mechanic I had for the Dusk Warrior, and today we get a look at how a Sorcerer Blood Mage might look like.
Sanguinus Bloodline
Potent Blood
Stating at 1st level when you choose this Origin, you gain 1 additional HP and a +1 bonus to your HP level up roll each time you get a level in the Sorcerer class. Additionally, you become immune to diseases.
Blood Substitution
Starting at 6th level, you are able to use your own blood as fuel for your Metamagic powers. As a bonus action on your turn, when you are at 0 Sorcery Points, you can spend a number of your own HP equal to twice the cost of a Metamagic option to use that option. Each time you use this feature, your maximum HP is lowered by the amount of HP spent to activate it. Your HP maximum returns to normal at the end of a short or long rest. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your CON modifier (minimum 1) each long rest.
Blood Refresh
Starting at 6th level, you can use your own blood to recover used spell slots. By spending HP equal to twice the level of the spell slot (up to a level 5 slot) you regain that spell slot. Each time you use this feature, your maximum HP is lowered by the amount of HP spent to activate it. Your HP maximum returns to normal at the end of a short or long rest. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your CON modifier (minimum 1) each long rest.
Blood Empowerment
Starting at 14th level, you are able to infuse your magic with your own blood in addition to the use of your Sorcery Points. As a bonus action on your turn, when using a Metamagic option on a spell, you can spend a number of your own HP equal to three times the normal cost of another Metamagic option to use that option as well. This allows you to use multiple Metamagic options that would normally not allow to be used together. Each time you use this feature, your maximum HP is lowered by the amount of HP spent to activate it. Your HP maximum returns to normal at the end of a short or long rest. Only one additional Metamagic option can be added per turn, and you can use this feature a number of times equal to your CON modifier (minimum 1) each long rest.
Blood Power
Starting at 18th level, you can use your own blood to heighten the effects of a spell you use. As a bonus action in your turn when casting a spell, you can spend a number of HP equal to twice the spell slot level used to cast the spell to heighten its effects as follows: - A spell with attack roll and causes damage will have advantage on the attack roll and half the damage dice will deal maximised damage; - A spell that grants a saving throw and causes damage will have its spell save DC increased by 4 and half the damage dice will deal maximised damage; - A spell that grants a saving throw and impose an effect during a set amount of time will have its spell DC increased by 4 and its duration increased by half. Each time you use this feature, your maximum HP is lowered by the amount of HP spent to activate it. Your HP maximum returns to normal at the end of a short or long rest. You can use this feature a number of times equal to half your CON modifier (minimum 1) each long rest.
Same as always, suggestion, comments and insults constructive criticisms are welcome :)
I love this, already. I wonder if it wouldn't be prudent, though, to make "Blood Substitution" be usable equal to CON mod as well. It feels as though doubling sorcery points is fine at lower levels, but may get out of hand at higher levels. Plus, if I were playing this class, I would be doing everything in my power to raise my CON, to include magic items which allow me to go over 20.
Also, and I'm not sure the best way to word it or where to put it, but an interesting trade would be spending the HP while also lowering you maximum HP. Generally this would work best with something that turns on and off like an activated ability, as you would want to get that maximum HP raised back up at some point. I would think if it refreshed on a short rest, but did not automatically heal, it would be somewhat balanced. So if we took Blood Substitution as an example it might read like this:
Starting at 6th level, you are able to use your own blood as fuel for your Metamagic powers. As a bonus action on your turn, when you are at 0 Sorcery Points, you can spend a number of your own HP equal to twice the cost of a Metamagic option to use that option. Each time you do so, your maximum HP is lowered by the same amount. Your maximum HP is restored after completing a short or long rest.
This isn't likely something you would want to add to every feature, and maybe not the 6th level one, but it would allow for a more tactical play of the class, I think. It is a borrow straight from the Blood Hunter class, granted, but it both forces thoughtful play (in my opinion) as well as adds to the flavor/risk. This would be especially true if you were to stick with the "You can use this feature a number of times equal to the maximum amount of Sorcery Points you have each long rest" in the same feature. It would be a truly useful tool, but at a cost you have to weigh even more heavily when you can't just be healed back up on the next turn.
I love this, already. I wonder if it wouldn't be prudent, though, to make "Blood Substitution" be usable equal to CON mod as well. It feels as though doubling sorcery points is fine at lower levels, but may get out of hand at higher levels. Plus, if I were playing this class, I would be doing everything in my power to raise my CON, to include magic items which allow me to go over 20.
Also, and I'm not sure the best way to word it or where to put it, but an interesting trade would be spending the HP while also lowering you maximum HP. Generally this would work best with something that turns on and off like an activated ability, as you would want to get that maximum HP raised back up at some point. I would think if it refreshed on a short rest, but did not automatically heal, it would be somewhat balanced. So if we took Blood Substitution as an example it might read like this:
Starting at 6th level, you are able to use your own blood as fuel for your Metamagic powers. As a bonus action on your turn, when you are at 0 Sorcery Points, you can spend a number of your own HP equal to twice the cost of a Metamagic option to use that option. Each time you do so, your maximum HP is lowered by the same amount. Your maximum HP is restored after completing a short or long rest.
This isn't likely something you would want to add to every feature, and maybe not the 6th level one, but it would allow for a more tactical play of the class, I think. It is a borrow straight from the Blood Hunter class, granted, but it both forces thoughtful play (in my opinion) as well as adds to the flavor/risk. This would be especially true if you were to stick with the "You can use this feature a number of times equal to the maximum amount of Sorcery Points you have each long rest" in the same feature. It would be a truly useful tool, but at a cost you have to weigh even more heavily when you can't just be healed back up on the next turn.
Thank you Captain :)
I really like the idea of the max HP being lowered with the use of these features! Also, it might be best, as you suggest, to make Blood Substitution CON modifier limited use as well, in order as well to keep all features on the same line. I'll put in the max HP reduction mechanic, thank you again!
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Mechanically, would disease come up as often as poison? And if not, as I am thinking is the case, is that why you chose it? I can also see picking disease since Dwarfs already have poison spoken for. Also, speaking to my mention earlier about gaining more than 20 CON, would it be prudent to have this class allow a new max, even of just 22?
Assuming standard stat array, you would have to pick Dwarf (assuming you put the 15 in CHA), for a 16 in CON and then take the ASI twice to get even to 20. So it shouldn't be too weird in terms of min/max, I would think.
I haven't played the sorcerer a lot, so it's hard to guess the power level of the abilities. So here are some now power level related tips: -For Potent Blood I would suggest a rewording like "You have one additional hit point for each level you have in the sorcerer-class". It avoids the level up roll sentence which might be confusing to some people. -For Blood Substitution and Blood Refresh: the ratio SP-to-HP is different for the two abilities. Is there are reason you don't double the SP cost for Blood Refresh instead of the spell slot level? Especially since I think Blood Refresh might be really strong. -For Blood Substitution and Blood Refresh: Let's assume a CON modifier of +4 for a fireball-happy Sorcerer (lvl 3 spell for Blood Refresh and Empowered for Blood Substitution) then these features allow you to "gain" 28 SP (4*lvl 3 spell slot(5SP) + 4*Empower(1SP)) per day, at the cost of 32 HP (4*lvl 3 spell slo (6HP) + 4*Empower(2HP)). This seems like a lot, especially since this is the only subclass that gets extra sorcery points (ignoring the wild cast table, since that's only 2%). Let's continue our assumptions and say this is a lvl 9 Sorcerer. Total HP (without rolling or any non-class related bonusses) is 83 if I'm correct (6+8*4(class)+9*4(con)+9(Potent Blood). While 32 HP damage is a significant part of this, you probably shouldn't get hit a lot as a sorcerer. And this increases your SP from 9 to 37! This seems very powerful, but keep in mind I haven't played a Sorcerer yet in 5e. -Blood Empowerment and Blood Power: at this point I feel that your HP (and mainly your current max HP) will be more of a limiting factor then your SP.
Conclusion: I really like the theme. Even more than with the Blood Hunter I have a feeling that your total HP will be a real resource you will have to carefully manage. I do get a feeling that the class might be really strong, but without playing the class I really can't tell if the risk and power increase balance each other out or if the power increase is too much or if the risk is too large to really use the class.
I haven't played the sorcerer a lot, so it's hard to guess the power level of the abilities.
So here are some now power level related tips: -For Potent Blood I would suggest a rewording like "You have one additional hit point for each level you have in the sorcerer-class". It avoids the level up roll sentence which might be confusing to some people. -For Blood Substitution and Blood Refresh: the ratio SP-to-HP is different for the two abilities. Is there are reason you don't double the SP cost for Blood Refresh instead of the spell slot level? Especially since I think Blood Refresh might be really strong. -For Blood Substitution and Blood Refresh: Let's assume a CON modifier of +4 for a fireball-happy Sorcerer (lvl 3 spell for Blood Refresh and Empowered for Blood Substitution) then these features allow you to "gain" 28 SP (4*lvl 3 spell slot(5SP) + 4*Empower(1SP)) per day, at the cost of 32 HP (4*lvl 3 spell slo (6HP) + 4*Empower(2HP)). This seems like a lot, especially since this is the only subclass that gets extra sorcery points (ignoring the wild cast table, since that's only 2%). Let's continue our assumptions and say this is a lvl 9 Sorcerer. Total HP (without rolling or any non-class related bonusses) is 83 if I'm correct (6+8*4(class)+9*4(con)+9(Potent Blood). While 32 HP damage is a significant part of this, you probably shouldn't get hit a lot as a sorcerer. And this increases your SP from 9 to 37! This seems very powerful, but keep in mind I haven't played a Sorcerer yet in 5e. -Blood Empowerment and Blood Power: at this point I feel that your HP (and mainly your current max HP) will be more of a limiting factor then your SP.
Conclusion: I really like the theme. Even more than with the Blood Hunter I have a feeling that your total HP will be a real resource you will have to carefully manage. I do get a feeling that the class might be really strong, but without playing the class I really can't tell if the risk and power increase balance each other out or if the power increase is too much or if the risk is too large to really use the class.
Hi Petward! o/
Thank you for your analysis, you actually raise some points I did not take into consideration.
-For Potent Blood I would suggest a rewording like "You have one additional hit point for each level you have in the sorcerer-class". It avoids the level up roll sentence which might be confusing to some people.
Thank you, sometimes I make explanation waaaaaaay more complicated than they need to.
-For Blood Substitution and Blood Refresh: the ratio SP-to-HP is different for the two abilities. Is there are reason you don't double the SP cost for Blood Refresh instead of the spell slot level? Especially since I think Blood Refresh might be really strong.
Your question makes a lot of sense. It does indeed make more sense, internal subclass balance-wise, to make the cost of a spell slot double the normal SP cost for it, this way the whole subclass (Except Blood Power) revolves around the use of HP instead of SP, with a 2-to-1 proportion throughout.
-For Blood Substitution and Blood Refresh: Let's assume a CON modifier of +4 for a fireball-happy Sorcerer (lvl 3 spell for Blood Refresh and Empowered for Blood Substitution) then these features allow you to "gain" 28 SP (4*lvl 3 spell slot(5SP) + 4*Empower(1SP)) per day, at the cost of 32 HP (4*lvl 3 spell slo (6HP) + 4*Empower(2HP)). This seems like a lot, especially since this is the only subclass that gets extra sorcery points (ignoring the wild cast table, since that's only 2%). Let's continue our assumptions and say this is a lvl 9 Sorcerer. Total HP (without rolling or any non-class related bonusses) is 83 if I'm correct (6+8*4(class)+9*4(con)+9(Potent Blood). While 32 HP damage is a significant part of this, you probably shouldn't get hit a lot as a sorcerer. And this increases your SP from 9 to 37! This seems very powerful, but keep in mind I haven't played a Sorcerer yet in 5e.
I admit I hadn't crunch the numbers as you did, my apologies. Let's see if, with the change above and some more adjusting, things can get a bit more balanced here: 3rd level slot = 5 SP =10 HP*4(CON) = 40 HP Empower = 1 SP = 2 HP*4(CON) = 8 HP Total = 48 HP which is more than half the average amount of HP of a 9th level Sorcerer. Definitely too much and too much potential power output, I agree.
At this point I am considering two things: limiting the uses to half CON modifier or making them a once every short rest thing. Let's see how things compare: 1/2 CON modifier -> 3rd level slot = 20 HP + Empower = 4 HP == 24 HP for 2 more slots and 2 more uses of Empower, for a total SP "gain" of 12 Short Rest Reset -> 3rd level slot = 10 HP + Empower = 2 HP == 12 HP for 1 more slot and 1 more use of Empower, for a total SP "gain" of 6
Another double option: making the max HP reset to normal only on a long rest AND increasing the cost of all features to 3 times the SP cost in HP. Considering the two options above (1/2 CON and short rest reset) we get a total HP expenditure of 36 and 18 HP respectively. In light of this, I think it might be best to go for this last option, short rest reset version, as I feel it offers a good balance between the HP expenditure and the actual benefit got from it in terms of SP "gain", and it makes it still a dangerous option as the rest of the max HP is not so often.
Suggestions and comments are appreciated as I am not entirely sure which is definitely best to implement. ^^
-Blood Empowerment and Blood Power: at this point I feel that your HP (and mainly your current max HP) will be more of a limiting factor then your SP.
That was more or less the idea, having to manage cleverly your HP would be crucial. But again, with the changes above, things should balance out a bit more, as these two features would get the same treatment, with the exception of Blood Power seeing the HP cost become triple the spell slot level, to keep it as in line as possible with the rest of the feature's mechanics.
So, to resume, the proposed change (for now) is: features can be used once every short rest; the HP max reset happens ONLY on a long rest; all HP costs are equal to 3 times the normal SP cost (or 3 times the spell slot for Blood Power). Let the feedback go free!
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
I feel that it is slightly OP to be immune to disease at 1st level. The monk has to be at least 10th level to become immune.
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Devious serpent folk devoid of compassion, yuan-ti manipulate other creatures by arousing their doubts, evoking their fears, and elevating and crushing their hopes. From remote temples in jungles, swamps, and deserts, the yuan-ti plot to supplant and dominate all other races and to make themselves gods.
Mechanically, would disease come up as often as poison? And if not, as I am thinking is the case, is that why you chose it? I can also see picking disease since Dwarfs already have poison spoken for. Also, speaking to my mention earlier about gaining more than 20 CON, would it be prudent to have this class allow a new max, even of just 22?
Assuming standard stat array, you would have to pick Dwarf (assuming you put the 15 in CHA), for a 16 in CON and then take the ASI twice to get even to 20. So it shouldn't be too weird in terms of min/max, I would think.
I hadn't seen this comment, sorry about that!
I choose disease because I feel it's more in line with having empowered blood, as most disease are carried/use/affect blood. As far as I know they do not come out often so it feels a bit more like a ribbon to me.
I would feel a tad uncomfortable changing the maximum ability score allowed, tbh. The rules allow only up to 20, and it's something I can get behind. For a Sorcerer is strange enough normally to have high CON, let alone more than it is usually possible without magic items.
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
I feel that it is slightly OP to be immune to disease at 1st level. The monk has to be at least 10th level to become immune.
As per my previous comment, it feels more like a ribbon than anything else to me, to be honest, but I guess there might be situation where it could be exploited... I'll have a look at how diseases actually work mechanically and see if I can put something elserelated, and move the immunity to a later level.
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
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As suggested by Capt0bv10u5, I am exploring a bit more the HP-for-stuff mechanic I had for the Dusk Warrior, and today we get a look at how a Sorcerer Blood Mage might look like.
Sanguinus Bloodline
Potent Blood
Stating at 1st level when you choose this Origin, you gain 1 additional HP and a +1 bonus to your HP level up roll each time you get a level in the Sorcerer class.
Additionally, you become immune to diseases.
Blood Substitution
Starting at 6th level, you are able to use your own blood as fuel for your Metamagic powers.
As a bonus action on your turn, when you are at 0 Sorcery Points, you can spend a number of your own HP equal to twice the cost of a Metamagic option to use that option. Each time you use this feature, your maximum HP is lowered by the amount of HP spent to activate it. Your HP maximum returns to normal at the end of a short or long rest.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your CON modifier (minimum 1) each long rest.
Blood Refresh
Starting at 6th level, you can use your own blood to recover used spell slots. By spending HP equal to twice the level of the spell slot (up to a level 5 slot) you regain that spell slot. Each time you use this feature, your maximum HP is lowered by the amount of HP spent to activate it. Your HP maximum returns to normal at the end of a short or long rest.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your CON modifier (minimum 1) each long rest.
Blood Empowerment
Starting at 14th level, you are able to infuse your magic with your own blood in addition to the use of your Sorcery Points. As a bonus action on your turn, when using a Metamagic option on a spell, you can spend a number of your own HP equal to three times the normal cost of another Metamagic option to use that option as well. This allows you to use multiple Metamagic options that would normally not allow to be used together. Each time you use this feature, your maximum HP is lowered by the amount of HP spent to activate it. Your HP maximum returns to normal at the end of a short or long rest.
Only one additional Metamagic option can be added per turn, and you can use this feature a number of times equal to your CON modifier (minimum 1) each long rest.
Blood Power
Starting at 18th level, you can use your own blood to heighten the effects of a spell you use.
As a bonus action in your turn when casting a spell, you can spend a number of HP equal to twice the spell slot level used to cast the spell to heighten its effects as follows:
- A spell with attack roll and causes damage will have advantage on the attack roll and half the damage dice will deal maximised damage;
- A spell that grants a saving throw and causes damage will have its spell save DC increased by 4 and half the damage dice will deal maximised damage;
- A spell that grants a saving throw and impose an effect during a set amount of time will have its spell DC increased by 4 and its duration increased by half.
Each time you use this feature, your maximum HP is lowered by the amount of HP spent to activate it. Your HP maximum returns to normal at the end of a short or long rest.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to half your CON modifier (minimum 1) each long rest.
Same as always, suggestion, comments and
insultsconstructive criticisms are welcome :)Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
I love this, already. I wonder if it wouldn't be prudent, though, to make "Blood Substitution" be usable equal to CON mod as well. It feels as though doubling sorcery points is fine at lower levels, but may get out of hand at higher levels. Plus, if I were playing this class, I would be doing everything in my power to raise my CON, to include magic items which allow me to go over 20.
Also, and I'm not sure the best way to word it or where to put it, but an interesting trade would be spending the HP while also lowering you maximum HP. Generally this would work best with something that turns on and off like an activated ability, as you would want to get that maximum HP raised back up at some point. I would think if it refreshed on a short rest, but did not automatically heal, it would be somewhat balanced. So if we took Blood Substitution as an example it might read like this:
Starting at 6th level, you are able to use your own blood as fuel for your Metamagic powers.
As a bonus action on your turn, when you are at 0 Sorcery Points, you can spend a number of your own HP equal to twice the cost of a Metamagic option to use that option. Each time you do so, your maximum HP is lowered by the same amount. Your maximum HP is restored after completing a short or long rest.
This isn't likely something you would want to add to every feature, and maybe not the 6th level one, but it would allow for a more tactical play of the class, I think. It is a borrow straight from the Blood Hunter class, granted, but it both forces thoughtful play (in my opinion) as well as adds to the flavor/risk. This would be especially true if you were to stick with the "You can use this feature a number of times equal to the maximum amount of Sorcery Points you have each long rest" in the same feature. It would be a truly useful tool, but at a cost you have to weigh even more heavily when you can't just be healed back up on the next turn.
I'll put in the max HP reduction mechanic, thank you again!
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
You're making thwsw faster then i have a chance to post up a review! Now i gotta actually work to catch up.
But from just a quick glance this class is beautiful and gives a perfect example of putting your heart into what you do.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Mechanically, would disease come up as often as poison? And if not, as I am thinking is the case, is that why you chose it? I can also see picking disease since Dwarfs already have poison spoken for. Also, speaking to my mention earlier about gaining more than 20 CON, would it be prudent to have this class allow a new max, even of just 22?
Assuming standard stat array, you would have to pick Dwarf (assuming you put the 15 in CHA), for a 16 in CON and then take the ASI twice to get even to 20. So it shouldn't be too weird in terms of min/max, I would think.
I haven't played the sorcerer a lot, so it's hard to guess the power level of the abilities.
So here are some now power level related tips:
-For Potent Blood I would suggest a rewording like "You have one additional hit point for each level you have in the sorcerer-class". It avoids the level up roll sentence which might be confusing to some people.
-For Blood Substitution and Blood Refresh: the ratio SP-to-HP is different for the two abilities. Is there are reason you don't double the SP cost for Blood Refresh instead of the spell slot level? Especially since I think Blood Refresh might be really strong.
-For Blood Substitution and Blood Refresh: Let's assume a CON modifier of +4 for a fireball-happy Sorcerer (lvl 3 spell for Blood Refresh and Empowered for Blood Substitution) then these features allow you to "gain" 28 SP (4*lvl 3 spell slot(5SP) + 4*Empower(1SP)) per day, at the cost of 32 HP (4*lvl 3 spell slo (6HP) + 4*Empower(2HP)). This seems like a lot, especially since this is the only subclass that gets extra sorcery points (ignoring the wild cast table, since that's only 2%). Let's continue our assumptions and say this is a lvl 9 Sorcerer. Total HP (without rolling or any non-class related bonusses) is 83 if I'm correct (6+8*4(class)+9*4(con)+9(Potent Blood). While 32 HP damage is a significant part of this, you probably shouldn't get hit a lot as a sorcerer. And this increases your SP from 9 to 37! This seems very powerful, but keep in mind I haven't played a Sorcerer yet in 5e.
-Blood Empowerment and Blood Power: at this point I feel that your HP (and mainly your current max HP) will be more of a limiting factor then your SP.
Conclusion: I really like the theme. Even more than with the Blood Hunter I have a feeling that your total HP will be a real resource you will have to carefully manage. I do get a feeling that the class might be really strong, but without playing the class I really can't tell if the risk and power increase balance each other out or if the power increase is too much or if the risk is too large to really use the class.
3rd level slot = 5 SP =10 HP*4(CON) = 40 HP
Empower = 1 SP = 2 HP*4(CON) = 8 HP
Total = 48 HP which is more than half the average amount of HP of a 9th level Sorcerer. Definitely too much and too much potential power output, I agree.
Let's see how things compare:
1/2 CON modifier -> 3rd level slot = 20 HP + Empower = 4 HP == 24 HP for 2 more slots and 2 more uses of Empower, for a total SP "gain" of 12
Short Rest Reset -> 3rd level slot = 10 HP + Empower = 2 HP == 12 HP for 1 more slot and 1 more use of Empower, for a total SP "gain" of 6
Considering the two options above (1/2 CON and short rest reset) we get a total HP expenditure of 36 and 18 HP respectively.
In light of this, I think it might be best to go for this last option, short rest reset version, as I feel it offers a good balance between the HP expenditure and the actual benefit got from it in terms of SP "gain", and it makes it still a dangerous option as the rest of the max HP is not so often.
Let the feedback go free!
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
I feel that it is slightly OP to be immune to disease at 1st level. The monk has to be at least 10th level to become immune.
Devious serpent folk devoid of compassion, yuan-ti manipulate other creatures by arousing their doubts, evoking their fears, and elevating and crushing their hopes. From remote temples in jungles, swamps, and deserts, the yuan-ti plot to supplant and dominate all other races and to make themselves gods.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games