Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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Not sure. I leave it up to you. I was thinking since it's an illusion of a lantern it wouldn't shine through. On the very next turn I plan on doing something with the illusion and it probably won't matter as much then.
<ooc: I misread the initiative post last night and thought I couldn't act again til after the knights.>
Being able to see normally in magical darkness because of his Devil's Sight (no tool tip for Devil's Sight feats/features that I could find) he attacks knight B with his staff with advantage (Blinded). With that giving the knights an idea of where he is, he then uses his monk ability Shadow Step as a bonus action to silently teleport behind knights A and C, so they are completely unaware of where he really is.
Using the telepathic link, CW says to the group, When you come out the door, go to your right. I'll try to block their vision while you try to get away. Once you are out of sight I'll follow you. Or we can meet up at Gafna's place.
Attack 1 on knight B: 18, 20 (highlighted highest roll for advantage)
Damage: 9 bludgeoning
Attack 2 on knight B: 9, 17 (highlighted highest roll for advantage)
Damage: 8 bludgeoning
<ooc: I have moved my token and the darkness circle in Owlbear>
I probably should have reposted the initiative tracker. I think this is right, but let me know if you see something amiss.
Whispers attacks make contact, but the knights heavy armor protects him from damsge.
(It's a miss, just dint see hiw he could miss in the dark, so armor class...)
<ooc: They are very well armored if a 20 doesn't hit. It takes 2 magic items and high DEX (+3) and WIS (+5) for CW to have an AC of 21 as a monk.>
CW warn the others through the telepathic link, You're not likely to damage these knights with physical attacks. They are too well armored.
<ooc: Indeed. They are knights of a magical kingdom that came to rescue a Cadre of inquisitors. This is basically the S.W.A.T. team.>
(I've had players below level 10 with AC24. Sam and possibly Tetrevess would remember. I was very liberal with magic items when I thought the campaign would end at a much lower level. These guys are CR8 if youre wondering. Allowing them 5 rounds to areive did shift this to a deadly encounter, by quite a bit. It was medium before (not that these challenge ratings really matter much, too many variables, decent for a search index tool, not much else, imo))
So what? Do we just escape to our right while you distract them? I can't see what's going on! Randy tries to clarify as he gestures the others to follow him and Trisk whilst the guards are distracted. He's half expecting Ethan to pretend to convince them that the entire team is on their side and that they were helping the inside squadron, but he probably knows his brother isn't going to do what he intends he might do...
A: Not wanting to cause any more carnage, Randy uses Invisibility on himself just in case before he moves 25ft to the right as CW orders him to.
(Back from holidays; Sorry if my previous posts were a bit rushed but I had to prep for the former beforehand. Pyro says he's still busy but he'll be back by new years)
Wildland Shifters Pt 2 (Pt 1 with PyromaniIsDeadThankGod)
Celci (The Lamb) - Non-Binary Changeling Sorcerer (Shadow Magic)
Maya Kurosaki - Female Kitsune Cleric (Twilight Domain); Currently in Lancea
Randy Wolftree - Male Human Artificer (Armourer); Currently in Crimson Sands of Time
Shijiro Otsune - Male Kitsune Blood Hunter (Order Of The Lycan)
Trojan Dseyller - Male Tortle Barbarian (Path of the Ancestral Guardian)
Xenia Ironhide - Female Kobold Rogue (Soulknife)
<Alright, if Ethan isn't going to post until jrxt year, I'm not holding initiative fir him.>
Aroused by the noise, a bunch of Troopers emerge from the double doors by which you first entered the building. One trooper bumps into an invisible Randy, blindly attacking the space 6 for 4 piercing.
"They're in the darkness," calls a knight to a trooper, sending the mass if bodies emerging feom the double doors into the bubble of blackness only to emerge steps later tondind Jigor holding a lantern. One stabs him with a spear. "He's hollow" he bellows.
<I have no idea what that does to lighting>
Alright, the dragon scat has hit the fan. Forget everything I've said and do what you want. Troopers are now coming out of the building on the right. You can either fight them or go left to try and escape. I'll try to keep the three knights busy that I have in my darkness sphere, but there are also three troopers with crossbows to watch out for beyond them.
(ooc: who cast Darkness and is it moving or stationary?)
(Also, have the inquisitors/troopers gone again and it's back to Trisk and others in the initiative order?)
<ooc: CW cast darkness on his quarterstaff so it can be moved.
The description for Darkness does not say it does not cause darkness in an area that overlaps with a higher level light spell, so RAW I would say unless the higher level light spell says it dispels the darkness, then the darkness is not affected because it was cast in or entered the darkened area.
What is the source of light the responding troops are using?>
(ooc: did you move and thus end up moving the darkness or is it still in the same place near the exit?)
Torches
CW and the staff did move, taking rhe darkness with. I'll post th map when I get minute.
I cou t initiative from the top. I had 20 to start, pcs above that csn go or not. I know the whole party didn't go yet and the Troopers have gone on initiative 16. PC's are still up.
"... and nonmagical light can’t illuminate it."
This is the part of the darkness spell that I read as illumination from magical sources of higher level illuminate the area of darkness.
Here's a stack exchange debate about it, but this is, to my eye, a clear example of the exception that proves the rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exception_that_proves_the_rule#:~:text="The%20exception%20that%20proves%20the%20rule"%20is%20often%20used%20to,exception%20itself%20is%20apparently%20contrary. If nonmagical light can't illuminate it, magucak light can, otherwise there's no need for the exception.
"Exceptio probat regulam in casibus non exceptis in casibus non exceptis." an argument attributed to Cicero in his defence of Lucius Cornelius Balbus. This argument states if an exception exists or has to be stated, then this exception proves that there must be some rule to which the case is an exception. "
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/51845/does-the-light-cantrip-cancel-out-the-2nd-level-darkness-spell
Also, I ruled this unaware, as I continue to be, of what the I tended effect is. Thsts why my words were "what do we think this does?" Or something to that effect. I get wanting it to be dark. Incidentally, Sam literally had a sword that puts out the lights they're carrying so, that could help. I don't know what the lantern + dead guy illusion is all about yet.
(Sorry for the extended wait but I'm finally back; Hope everyone had a good Christmas)
Ethan hates where this is going; He can't see but he heard Cw and Trisk failing to deceive the guards which resulting in some noticeable blade clashes. He's ran out of ideas at this point but also, the fact he's also resotrting to something he hates doing is also a no-go, but... if two wrongs make a right, he's got no choice as he steps into... darkness...? What is going on?! Oh god what did he and Randy get themselves into...?!
"What the hell are you idiots doing?!" The Simic teen yells. "We were stuck inside because one of your squads got ambushed and they called on us to save them! But we have someone that... got injured and we're trying to get him to the medics! You still gonna target us just for saving your troops and trying to save one of your men from a total wipeout?! Isn't this treachery you're committing? Or am I using the wrong term?! We've already save their lives! You want us to undo everything we did for them and bring you down as well?!"
Deception: NAT 20 (Don't believe me? Look at the log)
The Wildland Shifters
Daisy Ethalena - Female Wood Elf Ranger (Monster Slayer)
Ethan Wolftree - Male Simic Hybrid Warlock (The Hexblade)
Mira Laurits - Female Harengon Sorcerer (Clockwork Soul)
Raiden Kurosaki - Male Kitsune Wizard (Bladesinger)
Rixian Nishinoya - Male Fire Genasi Paladin (Oath of Vengeance)
Tenebris Amaro - Male Dark Elf Druid (Circle of Stars)
Yurime Hanasaki - Female Kumiho Bard (College Of Creation)
(ooc: yeah, it's not a big deal or anything now that CW moved with his darkness spell, but due to action economy I had to use an action to cast the spell, so was hoping to hide the illusion within the darkness and then on my next turn have it move out of the darkness and try to fool then into thinking Jigor was making a break for it... the lantern was intended to further add to the chaos and distraction by having Trisk use his 14th level feature to make one object real for a minute, I was going to have the illusion of Jigor throw the lantern and at the moment it was leaving his hand make the lantern real for a minute and when it smashed into something (building, wagon etc.) it would break and spill it's oil and ignite, causing a fire.)
<ooc: Just to keep this from taking too much space, I have put my counter argument that just because a spell is cast at a higher level and a spell exists that can dispel a spell of a lower level, that does not mean that any other higher level spell can automatically dispel/counter the effects of all lower level spells, in the spoiler.>
This is your game so you determine the effects and rules. But I don't agree with the example you provided for the exception that proves the rule that because the Daylight spell exists and dispels darkness cast at 2nd level that means any spell of a higher level can dispel a lower level spell. If that is your argument, then show me where in the description of Major Image it says this spell can produce a source of light. All other spells that produce light give a radius and brightness of the light produced and/or their effects. And if Major Image can duplicate the Daylight spell without the description stating it can do so and without stating it can produce a source of light, then it can also duplicate the Hypnotic Pattern spell in a 20 ft radius as that is also an illusory light pattern, is a 3rd level just like Daylight and Major Image, AND is in the same school (Illusion) while Daylight is in a different school (Evocation). And going from there, you can then say that any spell can dispel any other lower level spell because it is "more powerful". This TOTALLY removes the need for the Dispel Magic spell, making it totally useless. And who would ever take Daylight or Hypnotic Pattern if you can get the same effects with Major Image? Once you have gone that far, you may as well make Major Image the 3rd level Wish spell that can mimic any spell of 3rd level or lower. "I make my sword look like I cast Blinding Smite (3rd level Evocation) on it and attack the goblin. I rolled a 17, the goblin takes 1d6 + 1 slashing and an extra 3d8 radiant damage and needs to make a CON save or be blinded." And from there you then have a host of other spells that cause huge issues that I will not go into.
And if you are going to argue that the spell lets you create 'some other visual phenomenon' then you don't need a Gem of Brightness either as you can just cast Major Image of a Gem of Brightness and get its effects because Major Image lets you duplicate magical light spell effects in a 20 ft radius even though the description does not say it can produce a source of light nor duplicate the effects of any other spell.
I argue that the true 'exception that proves the rule' is actually 'a spell can't dispel another spell unless it specifically says so in the spell description' (spells that are the exceptions that can dispel other spells state in their description what and how they can dispel other spells - they are the exception you say makes the rule about dispelling) which is also saying 'a spell cannot have a magical effect that is not written in it's description' which is also RAW. Otherwise you don't need the Dispel Magic spell; you can use any other spell slot you have of a higher level to do so because you don't need the description to state that it can dispel a lower level spell.
I apologize that my arguments are confrontational and recognize the issues this causes and take responsibility for it. I have had fun playing this game with all of you. However, I now recognize that my initial feelings that my rogue character was not a good fit for the game is actually the feeling that I am not a good fit for this game. I am making blunder after blunder because my play style is not matching the style needed for my characters to fit in this campaign. I have had fun, but really do feel that I am not a good fit for this game. I like an intellectual and strategic challenge, but I don't like games, books, movies etc. where the rules are always stacked against the main characters (and often work exactly opposite from how they apply to the villains). The point of this adventure is to overthrow an undead tyrant, but you're going to do that by NOT killing those who support and enforce his will? I can't suspend my disbelief that far. You don't win a war against an undead tyrant by leaving his troops alive, you and all the innocent commoners you are trying to protect get slaughtered that way. You're not killing them because it will get you in trouble with the law? What about breaking a prisoner out of custody and leaving all troops alive to be able to identify you later? Under a tyrant you will not survive for either action; any disloyalty is a threat and will be permanently removed as quickly as possible. What are you going to do if/when you make it to Szazz, "Hey, we're here to remove you from power, but we won't kill you. Get in this sphere where you will be frozen in time until some evil person comes along to free you." Yeah, good way to NOT solve the problem. The story has gotten too unrealistic and unbelievable for me to enjoy playing it. So with that, I will say good bye and have fun.
Here is a list of the items Unseen Shadow had on him that the party can split up if the GM allows:
Bag of Holding: contains:
Cloak of the Manta Ray
Hat of Disguise
Wand of Web
explorer's backpack items
Bracers of Defense
Ring of Protection
Boots of Elvenkind
Periapt of Wound Closure
3 potions of healing
Backpack
14 gold pieces
My very short reply to the dispel argument is that the light spell doesn't dispel darkness, it just illuminates it. The spell continues to exist, it's just too weak to overpower a diametrically opposed mutually exclusive effect, which is pretty situational, (except for high level illusion magic, which I think is very powerful, thats why the teir 2 arc bbeg was an illusion wizard of the same level as one of the PCs currently).
Should darkness, upcast overwhelm an illusionists' light? I'm not sure. It won't dispel it, though.
I'm not trying to fight the players here. The pcs know how the magic works, so do the NPCs. Mostly, I dont know what the players are trying to achieve, so I literally can't rule in their favor; they can change that by telling me what they're trying to do.
Put your spoiler here.
I'm not going go have deception checks from the whole party one by one until it succeeds. I gave a second chance with 2 rolls for AD help. I do appreciate the nat 20, but it's open combat.
If we want a game where decisions don't have consequences, we should talk about it. I'm running the scene straight out of the book.
Gafna said don't draw attention. This wasn't meant ro be a combat encounter. She warned you it was very dangerous and that she didn't want the attention combat would bring. Still, taking out the 4 inquisitors was pretty feasible and the guards are all can on-fodder. Locking yiurselv3s in the basement when the objectively better choice was escape results in being cornered by these troops coming from the south since you're in the north side of the city. Taking a different exit would have avoided that.
I try to let anything that csn happen happen, for good or ill. So, I'd there's a strategy in the works, I want it to execute, but it may not have the intended outcome. Things unfold as they do. So if I know what the inent of a spell or action, is I can rule the interaction effective. I just dont know in the case of the lantern what the intent is, so i just rule as best i can, allowing anything that could happen to happen.