To start with, what would you like the distribution of funds between Constantine and New Nineveh to be?

That depends on other factors, like do they have 15th Century Medici-like banking, magically-backed ATMs and transfers, or something between? Specifically, I would like to know  how mobile the money could be: if he wants a lot quickly, does he wait 2 months to get it from NN?

While in NN, one possibility would have been to offer some backing to traders (for income and a share in profits), or to buy land for income (rent/farm/whatever), or to seek advice from family about investments. Ditto in Constantine.

His family run a vinyard; that possibly implies access to traders etc.

He also possibly has some idea of where the family wealth lies...I assume the menagerie is a cover, and the winery possibly too, since (I have the impression) they have not been in Engle his entire life...do they have more wineries down south?

Also gems: I vaguely recall he had some for making payments to 'people' in Last Chance (this is really vague); he had to give them back to warlord. But this implies gems are probably a more portable currency...does he or his father have access to gem dealers?

My mild tendency at this point would be 500e in NN, 500e in Constantine and 500e in gems, hidden (though this is hard to imagine and requires thought). If his father regularly deals in large sums of money, then maybe he just puts it into the family business (assuming it's not just based in Constatine). I can't really decide best appropach until I know a little more.

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

To start with, what would you like the distribution of funds between Constantine and New Nineveh to be?

That depends on other factors, like do they have 15th Century Medici-like banking, magically-backed ATMs and transfers, or something between? Specifically, I would like to know  how mobile the money could be: if he wants a lot quickly, does he wait 2 months to get it from NN?

It would probably take a while for the communications to get to and from New Nineveh, but the funds wouldn't have to make the journey. Instead, after the transaction was confirmed, a local representative of the New Nineveh institution holding the funds would make an equivalent amount available in a local account. The whole transaction would probably take a tenday.

While in NN, one possibility would have been to offer some backing to traders (for income and a share in profits), or to buy land for income (rent/farm/whatever), or to seek advice from family about investments. Ditto in Constantine.

I have no issue with the above as long as we don't go into detail. He could receive a monthly amount credited to a local bank from his investment in New Nineveh. Locally, I'd want to do it in play so it will help me work out the commerce of Constantine and Engle.

His family run a vinyard; that possibly implies access to traders etc.

Happy to go into details if you want to do this, but I would prefer it to be done in play rather than retconning something.

He also possibly has some idea of where the family wealth lies...I assume the menagerie is a cover, and the winery possibly too, since (I have the impression) they have not been in Engle his entire life...do they have more wineries down south?

The estate is where Brand was born, his father having moved to Engle after a time in the Sorendenese army as an officer with his new wife, Brand's mother. Also, Brand would probably not think that the winery is a front. It is too successful and takes up too much of his father's time. And, as far as he knows, there are no other wineries in the family. 

The larger Brand family is more than Brand and his parents; he would have stayed with the family of an uncle when visiting Sorenden. The Brand clan, as a whole, has probably been wealthy for a generation or so, but the family is probably considered one of the 'newly rich' by the older families of the Empire. The other branches of the family are involved in other business pursuits; shipping being the one his uncle is involved with.

And for the record, as far as Brand is aware, there is no royal blood in the family history (see Nubian on the world site).

Also gems: I vaguely recall he had some for making payments to 'people' in Last Chance (this is really vague); he had to give them back to warlord. But this implies gems are probably a more portable currency...does he or his father have access to gem dealers?

The family does not work in gems. Your father's business works through promissory notes generally with the actual funds being transferred between the banks in question. However, Brand might remember the name of a criminal fence from his time with Dalshar, which might be a source of gems. If this is something you feel he might like to make use of, roll a straight Wisdom check.

My mild tendency at this point would be 500e in NN, 500e in Constantine and 500e in gems, hidden (though this is hard to imagine and requires thought). If his father regularly deals in large sums of money, then maybe he just puts it into the family business (assuming it's not just based in Constatine). I can't really decide best appropach until I know a little more.

Hopefully the above gives you an idea of where I'm coming from. 

It would probably take a while for the communications to get to and from New Nineveh, but the funds wouldn't have to make the journey. Instead, after the transaction was confirmed, a local representative of the New Nineveh institution holding the funds would make an equivalent amount available in a local account. The whole transaction would probably take a tenday.

That sounds fine. I'm thinking now: 400 banked in NN. Does it earn modest interest, or none? If none, might want to have more 'invested' (see below).

While in NN, one possibility would have been to offer some backing to traders (for income and a share in profits), or to buy land for income (rent/farm/whatever), or to seek advice from family about investments. Ditto in Constantine.

I have no issue with the above as long as we don't go into detail. He could receive a monthly amount credited to a local bank from his investment in New Nineveh. Locally, I'd want to do it in play so it will help me work out the commerce of Constantine and Engle.

This also sounds fine: let's not go into too much detail, and I'm happy to play the Constantine side. Say another 600e invested in NN.

His family run a vinyard; that possibly implies access to traders etc.

Happy to go into details if you want to do this, but I would prefer it to be done in play rather than retconning something.

He also possibly has some idea of where the family wealth lies...I assume the menagerie is a cover, and the winery possibly too, since (I have the impression) they have not been in Engle his entire life...do they have more wineries down south?

The estate is where Brand was born, his father having moved to Engle after a time in the Sorendenese army as an officer with his new wife, Brand's mother. Also, Brand would probably not think that the winery is a front. It is too successful and takes up too much of his father's time. And, as far as he knows, there are no other wineries in the family. 

The larger Brand family is more than Brand and his parents; he would have stayed with the family of an uncle when visiting Sorenden. The Brand clan, as a whole, has probably been wealthy for a generation or so, but the family is probably considered one of the 'newly rich' by the older families of the Empire. The other branches of the family are involved in other business pursuits; shipping being the one his uncle is involved with.

Good to know the winery is real. Happy with that! Lets say he has invested *some* of his money with Uncle Malacai(?).

And for the record, as far as Brand is aware, there is no royal blood in the family history (see Nubian on the world site).

I feel quite certain you must be mistaken.

Also gems: I vaguely recall he had some for making payments to 'people' in Last Chance (this is really vague); he had to give them back to warlord. But this implies gems are probably a more portable currency...does he or his father have access to gem dealers?

The family does not work in gems. Your father's business works through promissory notes generally with the actual funds being transferred between the banks in question. However, Brand might remember the name of a criminal fence from his time with Dalshar, which might be a source of gems. If this is something you feel he might like to make use of, roll a straight Wisdom check.

In this I was thinking in terms of a jeweler or a trader specializing in fine gems etc. I do not want to start dealing in "pre-owned" gems. But I would be interested in the results of the Wisdom check: 15 (no proficiency, I assume).

Pre-owned have two problems: the previous owners may come calling, and they have low resale value. If Brand himself stole them that's a different matter.

My mild tendency at this point would be 500e in NN, 500e in Constantine and 500e in gems, hidden (though this is hard to imagine and requires thought). If his father regularly deals in large sums of money, then maybe he just puts it into the family business (assuming it's not just based in Constatine). I can't really decide best appropach until I know a little more.

Hopefully the above gives you an idea of where I'm coming from.

This is good; I like the idea of the remote stuff being done, and the local stuff TBD.

To that end, lets assume:

- net wealth 1656e (1545e + 1108c)

- 540 banked in Constantine and I would like to talk about investment opportunities with Koric and perhaps get advice from wine traders as well.

- 600 invested in New Ninevah, 300 in Uncle Malacai's operation and 300 in other stuff; Brand gets earnings paid periodically.

- 400 banked in New Ninevah, with the possibility of moving that into his investments in New Nineveh, or moving it to Constantine.

-> Total  1540; leaving 116e; of the 116, approx 16 carried, 50 in lock box in estate and 50 in lock box in town. [[Give me some advice here: is this the sort of sum he's leave in a locked box, based on what he has seen his father do? Bolted to the floor perhaps?]]

Can you give me an idea of where this wealth puts me in terms of Uncle Malacai's net wealth, the value of the winery, and the total wine sales values each year? Roughly.

[[I *think* this is good enough to move forward with the main story. Do you agree?]]

 Edit: I will update my list of immediate priorities to include collecting my income from the factotum.

[[Have updated character sheet with money details and 'immediate' objectives]]

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

[[Before we go too much further with this, we need to establish a few things. Monetary values in engles would only really apply to Engelian coins. Sorenden has its own coinage system, which is recognised in Engle, but not regularly used because it is only available in limited supply. Also, any coins that were recovered as treasure from Brand's adventuring days would be in a variety of currencies. I would therefore suggest that Brand's current net value be considered as its Engelian equivalent. If he wants to keep money in different currencies, or keep some of his found treasure in its original form, then these should be considered separately.]]

It would probably take a while for the communications to get to and from New Nineveh, but the funds wouldn't have to make the journey. Instead, after the transaction was confirmed, a local representative of the New Nineveh institution holding the funds would make an equivalent amount available in a local account. The whole transaction would probably take a tenday.

That sounds fine. I'm thinking now: 400 banked in NN. Does it earn modest interest, or none? If none, might want to have more 'invested' (see below).

Based on my initial premise above, I am going to assume this is 400 engles equivalent that has been banked in New Nineveh. This can be either stored in a strongbox, which would attract a monthly cost (currently 2 constantines), or invested (variable monthly return; paid monthly; last months return was .4%). An estimate of the current balance can be found out from the local agent of the Sorendenese bank.

While in NN, one possibility would have been to offer some backing to traders (for income and a share in profits), or to buy land for income (rent/farm/whatever), or to seek advice from family about investments. Ditto in Constantine.

I have no issue with the above as long as we don't go into detail. He could receive a monthly amount credited to a local bank from his investment in New Nineveh. Locally, I'd want to do it in play so it will help me work out the commerce of Constantine and Engle.

This also sounds fine: let's not go into too much detail, and I'm happy to play the Constantine side. Say another 600e invested in NN.

[[Okay. ]]

His family run a vinyard; that possibly implies access to traders etc.

Happy to go into details if you want to do this, but I would prefer it to be done in play rather than retconning something.

He also possibly has some idea of where the family wealth lies...I assume the menagerie is a cover, and the winery possibly too, since (I have the impression) they have not been in Engle his entire life...do they have more wineries down south?

The estate is where Brand was born, his father having moved to Engle after a time in the Sorendenese army as an officer with his new wife, Brand's mother. Also, Brand would probably not think that the winery is a front. It is too successful and takes up too much of his father's time. And, as far as he knows, there are no other wineries in the family. 

The larger Brand family is more than Brand and his parents; he would have stayed with the family of an uncle when visiting Sorenden. The Brand clan, as a whole, has probably been wealthy for a generation or so, but the family is probably considered one of the 'newly rich' by the older families of the Empire. The other branches of the family are involved in other business pursuits; shipping being the one his uncle is involved with.

Good to know the winery is real. Happy with that! Lets say he has invested *some* of his money with Uncle Malacai(?).

[[Okay. He can have done this on his trip to New Nineveh. He possibly even sailed to and from New Nineveh on one of his uncle's ships. Happy with the name.]]

And for the record, as far as Brand is aware, there is no royal blood in the family history (see Nubian on the world site).

I feel quite certain you must be mistaken.

[[I know the above is probably in jest, but the bloodline is followed quite closely by the Mithran temple for both historic and religious reasons and so my original assertion is almost one hundred percent correct.]]

Also gems: I vaguely recall he had some for making payments to 'people' in Last Chance (this is really vague); he had to give them back to warlord. But this implies gems are probably a more portable currency...does he or his father have access to gem dealers?

The family does not work in gems. Your father's business works through promissory notes generally with the actual funds being transferred between the banks in question. However, Brand might remember the name of a criminal fence from his time with Dalshar, which might be a source of gems. If this is something you feel he might like to make use of, roll a straight Wisdom check.

In this I was thinking in terms of a jeweler or a trader specializing in fine gems etc. I do not want to start dealing in "pre-owned" gems. But I would be interested in the results of the Wisdom check: 21 (no proficiency, I assume). [[No. This was more an opportunity and memory thing.]]

[[Brand actually remembers two people in Constantine from his days with Dalshar who were willing to give coin for stolen goods. Details to come later.]]

Pre-owned have two problems: the previous owners may come calling, and they have low resale value. If Brand himself stole them that's a different matter.

My mild tendency at this point would be 500e in NN, 500e in Constantine and 500e in gems, hidden (though this is hard to imagine and requires thought). If his father regularly deals in large sums of money, then maybe he just puts it into the family business (assuming it's not just based in Constatine). I can't really decide best appropach until I know a little more.

Hopefully the above gives you an idea of where I'm coming from.

This is good; I like the idea of the remote stuff being done, and the local stuff TBD.

To that end, lets assume:

- net wealth 1656e (1545e + 1108c)

- 540 banked in Constantine and I would like to talk about investment opportunities with Koric and perhaps get advice from wine traders as well.

[[TBD]]

- 600 invested in New Ninevah, 300 in Uncle Malacai's operation and 300 in other stuff; Brand gets earnings paid periodically.

[[I'll have to think a little bit more about the invested stuff. The numbers I gave above would have been bank interest rates, which would be fairly stable because such a large institution would have a diversified portfolio of investments. Individual investments would be more volatile. How much risk is Brand willing to assume?]]

- 400 banked in New Ninevah, with the possibility of moving that into his investments in New Nineveh, or moving it to Constantine.

[[Banked or stored? Also, customers who invest in the bank would be given a free strongbox. Is there anything other than money that Brand might have left in the strongbox in New Nineveh? The same applies to his banked funds in Constantine. Is there anything he wants to store in the bank?]]

-> Total  1540; leaving 116e; of the 116, approx 16 carried, 50 in lock box in estate and 50 in lock box in town. [[Give me some advice here: is this the sort of sum he's leave in a locked box, based on what he has seen his father do? Bolted to the floor perhaps?]]

[[Brand knows that his father has a locked box in his study. He would also know that another of Vosel's responsibilities is estate security and that he has a number of men under his control to do this. Not armed guards as such, but servants and vineyard hands familiar with arms who can be called upon to protect/patrol the estate if required. (These people are also responsible for handling the occasional threat that wanders onto the estate from the wilderness; the surrounding land is not completely tamed.) From Brand's experience, he doesn't think much of the security that is in place, but knows it is probably sufficient considering how far out of town the estate is. As to whether Alaric is willing to trust to this is up to you.]]

Can you give me an idea of where this wealth puts me in terms of Uncle Malacai's net wealth, the value of the winery, and the total wine sales values each year? Roughly.

[[I would definitely count Brand as being one of the independently wealthy of Constantine; perhaps on a par with his father, but without the same level of influence. but Uncle Malacai is probably worth significantly more. Have to think about the annual turnover of the estate, but that is something Alaric would possibly not be privy to anyway. One thing he is aware of is the fact that Brand's father, because of the location of the estate, does not pay Engelian tax (see Taxation on the world site); he would pay tax for the city residence though. As to whether he pays tax to the Empire, Alaric doesn't know.]]

[[I *think* this is good enough to move forward with the main story. Do you agree?]]

[[See above and let me know if you want to change anything and/or find out any more.]]

 Edit: I will update my list of immediate priorities to include collecting my income from the factotum.

Before we go too much further with this...Brand's current net value be considered as its Engelian equivalent. If he wants to keep money in different currencies, or keep some of his found treasure in its original form, then these should be considered separately.

Sounds fine; I don't recall the original form, so happy with Engelian-equivalents.

I am going to assume this is 400 engles equivalent that has been banked in New Nineveh. This can be either stored in a strongbox, which would attract a monthly cost (currently 2 constantines), or invested (variable monthly return; paid monthly; last months return was .4%). An estimate of the current balance can be found out from the local agent of the Sorendenese bank.

Let's go with 'Invested' assuming investments can be withdrawn in a reasonable period of time. Will summarize at end.

I know the above is probably in jest, but the bloodline is followed quite closely by the Mithran temple ...

Indeed, tongue in cheek. However, I do note that Churches are notoriously malleable wrt facts. New evidence, and 'ancient' scrolls are discovered more frequently than one might expect. Just ask Henry V! But yes, no imperial pretensions at this time.

Brand actually remembers two people in Constantine from his days with Dalshar who were willing to give coin for stolen goods. Details to come later

Definitely good to know for later.

[[Can I assume identity has been established; how was this done? One possibility is when he got back from NN he was probably carrying letter of introduction from the Bank of Sorendon; he would then have made himself known to the local branch and been introduced to the staff, and they would have then destroyed the letters. Or there could be magic. Or a seal. Or something. And/or a key for a lockbox? Ditto for Constantine, except no letters needed?

Possible worst case scenario: they don't believe he is who he says he is would require him getting his patents of nobility, and/or visiting New Nineveh again for letters; does this sound reasonable?]]

[[Q: how often/easily can he get access to the lock box? Should he just put the 100e 'cash' there, or would investing it be just as quick for withdrawals?]]

Current disposition:

540e invested in Bank in Constantine (assuming can be withdrawn in reasonable time, otherwise just banked)
400e invested in Bank of Sorenden (assuming can be withdrawn in reasonable time, otherwise just banked)
300e invested with Malacai (happy for this to be more or less depending on what works for him/you)
300e invested with non-specified low-ish risk 'investments' in NN (he's not after get rich quick schemes, he wants investments back by 'stuff')
100e in boxes whose locations are TBD (house, estate, and/or bank -- most likely, 50e in estate, 50e in lockbox in bank).

Re: Risk; would prefer investment backed by 'things"; see Malacai (below) for example. If Brand were to invest in riskier operations he would probably prefer having more direct involvement (eg. this might happen in Constantne).

Re: Malacai: Brand would prefer a small stake in his whole operation rather than, say, a half share of a new ship, or ownership of one cargo etc). The investment from Brand could expedite some form of expansion, perhaps, via experimenting in more profitable cargoes, or adding new routes or new ships etc sooner than Malacai originally planned. If Malacai wanted him to help with anything into the future, this might also be an option.

[[Edit: Could even use hand outline, a password and a portrait for ID -- stored on file -- very 2/3 FA of them! Probably not]]

[[When they get to stables]]

Alaric glances at Mikkel, noting his stiff gait after a few hours in the saddle. "It's none of my business, but have you ever considered asking at the Temples about that leg of yours? There was a priestess of Asura in Ilbarsis who worked wonders -- I don't doubt Constantine must have such people."

[[Was she based in Ilbarsis, or Constantine? Are there other healers? At the School? Asura is 'knowledge', but is that also healing? What was Brnad's accident, and who healed him before heading to NN for R&R?]]

[[Happy to update the Canon doc about banking once we are agreed; that leaves the main issues about Melitta/Dworkin and "the accident".]]

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

I am going to assume this is 400 engles equivalent that has been banked in New Nineveh. This can be either stored in a strongbox, which would attract a monthly cost (currently 2 constantines), or invested (variable monthly return; paid monthly; last months return was .4%). An estimate of the current balance can be found out from the local agent of the Sorendenese bank.

Let's go with 'Invested' assuming investments can be withdrawn in a reasonable period of time. Will summarize at end.

[[Assuming that you're happy with the stable low interest rate of ~ 0.4% per month from the Bank of Sorenden for this investment, then quick withdrawals are available. Let us also assume that Brand banked his money there just over 2 months ago when he was in New Nineveh.]]

[[Can I assume identity has been established; how was this done? One possibility is when he got back from NN he was probably carrying letter of introduction from the Bank of Sorendon; he would then have made himself known to the local branch and been introduced to the staff, and they would have then destroyed the letters. Or there could be magic. Or a seal. Or something. And/or a key for a lockbox? Ditto for Constantine, except no letters needed?

[[Brand can have a key for a lockbox in the Bank of Sorenden in New Nineveh, if he wants one. Has he left anything in that lockbox.]]

[[Brand would have come back from New Nineveh with a signed and counter-signed letter from the Bank of Sorenden indicating he was a customer of the bank. After he fronted up to the bank's premises in Constantine with the letter and was able to prove he was actually Alaric Brand by providing a matching signature, then he would have been assigned a bank officer for any future transactions (i.e., someone who knows him by sight and who knows his personal mark/signature). The letter is now kept by the bank for reference. Does he want a lockbox in Constantine, and has he left anything in it?]]

 

Possible worst case scenario: they don't believe he is who he says he is would require him getting his patents of nobility, and/or visiting New Nineveh again for letters; does this sound reasonable?]]

[[Q: how often/easily can he get access to the lock box? Should he just put the 100e 'cash' there, or would investing it be just as quick for withdrawals?]]

[[He can access the lockbox any time the bank is open.]]

Current disposition:

540e invested in Bank in Constantine (assuming can be withdrawn in reasonable time, otherwise just banked)
400e invested in Bank of Sorenden (assuming can be withdrawn in reasonable time, otherwise just banked)

[[If the above were invested with the Bank of Sorenden in both locations, and assuming his deposit in Constantine has been there for 3 months rather than the 2 for the New Nineveh branch, then returns for those months have been as follows: .4%, .6%, .3%. Assuming compound interest and that he hasn't made any withdrawals, then his current holdings should be the sum of the following amounts 547 engles, 4 lions, 9 cubs plus 403 engles, 6 constantines and 7 cubs, for a total holding of 950 engles, 6 constantines, 4 lions and 7 cubs in the Bank of Sorenden, all of which should be available with a day's notice from the branch in Constantine.]]

[[If Brand wants to diversify his banking, then the Bank of Constantine is also available and offers comparable rates based on different, more local, investment portfolios.]]

300e invested with Malacai (happy for this to be more or less depending on what works for him/you)

[[See below with regard to this.]]

300e invested with non-specified low-ish risk 'investments' in NN (he's not after get rich quick schemes, he wants investments back by 'stuff')

[[Non-specified, low-risk investments in New Nineveh are paid quarterly and he hasn't received any dividend notifications as yet. Presumably he would like them paid into his Bank of Sorenden account, so they would appear there every three months or so.]]

100e in boxes whose locations are TBD (house, estate, and/or bank -- most likely, 50e in estate, 50e in lockbox in bank).

[[You will have to give me the details for these.]]

Re: Risk; would prefer investment backed by 'things"; see Malacai (below) for example. If Brand were to invest in riskier operations he would probably prefer having more direct involvement (eg. this might happen in Constantne).

Re: Malacai: Brand would prefer a small stake in his whole operation rather than, say, a half share of a new ship, or ownership of one cargo etc). The investment from Brand could expedite some form of expansion, perhaps, via experimenting in more profitable cargoes, or adding new routes or new ships etc sooner than Malacai originally planned. If Malacai wanted him to help with anything into the future, this might also be an option.

[[For the investment opportunity in Malacai's shipping line, make a Persuasion roll for Alaric to have gotten a general stake rather than being part owner of a ship, which is what Malacai would have preferred at the time they were discussing the proposal. If the Persuasion roll does not succeed, Brand could have chosen not to participate.]]

[[Edit: Could even use hand outline, a password and a portrait for ID -- stored on file -- very 2/3 FA of them! Probably not]]

[[Assuming that you're happy with the stable low interest rate of ~ 0.4% per month from the Bank of Sorenden for this investment, then quick withdrawals are available. Let us also assume that Brand banked his money there just over 2 months ago when he was in New Nineveh.]

Sounds good. The rationale here is the Bank or Sorenden stuff is 'insurance', so low interest rate is better than burying it under a tree. And, if the opportunity presents, he can always invest...

[[Brand can have a key for a lockbox in the Bank of Sorenden in New Nineveh, if he wants one. Has he left anything in that lockbox.]]

Maybe spare tools for his work for the SSS: disguise kit and thieves tools...I don't think he has anything to leave otherwise. Perhaps a notarized copy of the shared title for the tower in Ilbarsis. Precedurally, I am assuming they bring the box, there's two keys, they unlock it and leave the room...

[[He can access the lockbox any time the bank is open.]]

Is that every day? I could not see a calendar entry...is my recollection of 3 tendays and month, and 13 months a year correct? Is there a 'tenday-end'?

[[Brand would have come back from New Nineveh with a signed and counter-signed letter from the Bank of Sorenden indicating he was a customer of the bank. After he fronted up to the bank's premises in Constantine with the letter and was able to prove he was actually Alaric Brand by providing a matching signature, then he would have been assigned a bank officer for any future transactions (i.e., someone who knows him by sight and who knows his personal mark/signature). The letter is now kept by the bank for reference. Does he want a lockbox in Constantine, and has he left anything in it?]]

OK sounds fine. Ditto for lockbox content: notarized copy of title, thieves tools and disguise kit. Hoping he has privacy when accessing. In any case, he will bring the two kits in a satchel or bag, and just leave the lot in the box.

Procedurally: I assume the letter has been stamped or somehow notarized to indicate it was used in Constantine. Otherwise someone could steal the letter and use it in another city.

[[... .4%, .6%, .3%. ... 950 engles, 6 constantines, 4 lions and 7 cubs in the Bank of Sorenden, all of which should be available with a day's notice from the branch in Constantine.]]

This sounds fine; I might suggest that the stuff in Constantine was invested with the Bank of Engle given you said more or less same interest. Depending on how play goes, this will be moved around and/or invested in game-time.

[[Non-specified, low-risk investments in New Nineveh are paid quarterly and he hasn't received any dividend notifications as yet. Presumably he would like them paid into his Bank of Sorenden account, so they would appear there every three months or so.]]

Fine and yes.

[[You will have to give me the details for these. (Boxes)]]

40e in metal lockbox bolted to floor under bed on estate. Box big enough to hold weapons, armour, bow...if he chose to (which he doesn't; shortbow under the pillow and all).
60e in Lockbox in Constantine.

[[For the investment opportunity in Malacai's shipping line, make a Persuasion roll for Alaric to have gotten a general stake rather than being part owner of a ship, which is what Malacai would have preferred at the time they were discussing the proposal. If the Persuasion roll does not succeed, Brand could have chosen not to participate.]]

Persuasion: 6 [[the roll will probably suck, given my last few excellent rolls!]]

[[As a further line of persuasion, if I fail]] "I don't mind what you do with the money, Uncle. You've convinced me a new ship is a good idea. I'd be happy for it to be spent on a new ship; I just don't want to lose my investment if the ship sinks! I might be able to find a little more to invest, if that would help persuade you?"

[[If Malacai still says "no"]]

"Very well, Uncle. Thank you for considering the offer. Please know it stands, should you change your mind."

[[then Brand will invest that money half in the Bank and half in "other ventures", so a recalc is required at some point!]]

[[Persuasion of GM: should I have got a roll with Advantage, he's the n'uncle an all?]]

 [[Assuming I fail in my second attempt, if there is one, I am unclear of the deal that was offered by Malacai. If he would be happy to underwrite any losses should the ship be lost in any way, they I'd be happy to just have a share in a single ship that he managed. I'm just not clear on what is proposed.]]

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

[[Brand can have a key for a lockbox in the Bank of Sorenden in New Nineveh, if he wants one. Has he left anything in that lockbox.]]

Maybe spare tools for his work for the SSS: disguise kit and thieves tools...I don't think he has anything to leave otherwise. Perhaps a notarized copy of the shared title for the tower in Ilbarsis. Precedurally, I am assuming they bring the box, there's two keys, they unlock it and leave the room...

[[Presuming these are second sets of these tools, I need you to remove 5 engles from your funds as these two kits cost 2.5 engles each and are something he would have to purchase.]]

[[He can access the lockbox any time the bank is open.]]

 

Is that every day? I could not see a calendar entry...is my recollection of 3 tendays and month, and 13 months a year correct? Is there a 'tenday-end'?

[[Actually, I haven't worked that out yet, so I'll let you know when I do.]]

[[Brand would have come back from New Nineveh with a signed and counter-signed letter from the Bank of Sorenden indicating he was a customer of the bank. After he fronted up to the bank's premises in Constantine with the letter and was able to prove he was actually Alaric Brand by providing a matching signature, then he would have been assigned a bank officer for any future transactions (i.e., someone who knows him by sight and who knows his personal mark/signature). The letter is now kept by the bank for reference. Does he want a lockbox in Constantine, and has he left anything in it?]]

OK sounds fine. Ditto for lockbox content: notarized copy of title, thieves tools and disguise kit. Hoping he has privacy when accessing. In any case, he will bring the two kits in a satchel or bag, and just leave the lot in the box.

[[Brand would have privacy, but if these are a third set of these tool kits, then deduct another 5 engles from his funds. Also, deduct another 2 engles for the notarised copies of the title deed. I am presuming he has the original, so I need to know where it is as well, if you haven't noted this on his character sheet.]]

Procedurally: I assume the letter has been stamped or somehow notarized to indicate it was used in Constantine. Otherwise someone could steal the letter and use it in another city.

I don't understand the relevance of the above, the title deed for the tower near Ilbarsis would have fallen under the jurisdiction of the city state of Ilbarsis and so legally would be covered by the the power vested in Lord Vead.

[[... .4%, .6%, .3%. ... 950 engles, 6 constantines, 4 lions and 7 cubs in the Bank of Sorenden, all of which should be available with a day's notice from the branch in Constantine.]]

This sounds fine; I might suggest that the stuff in Constantine was invested with the Bank of Engle given you said more or less same interest. Depending on how play goes, this will be moved around and/or invested in game-time.

The money invested with the Bank of Engle has performed as follows: 0.4%, 0.3% & 0.4% over the last three months, which mean that (assuming there has been no withdrawals) his holdings in the Bank of Engle are currently 545 engles, 9 constantine, 6 lions and 2 cubs. The funds in the Bank of Sorenden over the last two months have performed as follows: 0.6% and 0.3%, which means the fund in that banks are currently equivalent to 403 engles, 6 constantines and 7 cubs.

[[You will have to give me the details for these. (Boxes)]]

40e in metal lockbox bolted to floor under bed on estate. Box big enough to hold weapons, armour, bow...if he chose to (which he doesn't; shortbow under the pillow and all).
60e in Lockbox in Constantine.

[[The lockbox is free because Brand is an important customer. To get a customised metal lockbox made and shipped to the estate will cost Brand an engle. I will assume he installed it himself.]]

[[For the investment opportunity in Malacai's shipping line, make a Persuasion roll for Alaric to have gotten a general stake rather than being part owner of a ship, which is what Malacai would have preferred at the time they were discussing the proposal. If the Persuasion roll does not succeed, Brand could have chosen not to participate.]]

Persuasion: 6 [[the roll will probably suck, given my last few excellent rolls!]]

[[As a further line of persuasion, if I fail]] "I don't mind what you do with the money, Uncle. You've convinced me a new ship is a good idea. I'd be happy for it to be spent on a new ship; I just don't want to lose my investment if the ship sinks! I might be able to find a little more to invest, if that would help persuade you?"

[[If Malacai still says "no"]]

"Very well, Uncle. Thank you for considering the offer. Please know it stands, should you change your mind."

[[then Brand will invest that money half in the Bank and half in "other ventures", so a recalc is required at some point!]]

[[Persuasion of GM: should I have got a roll with Advantage, he's the n'uncle an all?]]

[[Sorry, I wasn't clear. He is very happy to accept Brand's money as an investment in his company—he was looking for investors at the time—but Brand was unable to persuade him for a general share. If you still want to go ahead with this investment. Brand will be a part owner of a new ship which is currently being built in New Nineveh.]]

 

Re: titles, I assume Brand, Dworkin, Melitta and X had a copy each, and the original might have been lodged somewhere in Ilbarsis. Veade, maybe. My thinking therefor is he got another copy to save in NN, and the 'original copy' went to Constantine. I doubt he'd actually have the original title. But, -1e each either way I guess. {{-2e}}.

Procedurally: I assume the letter has been stamped or somehow notarized to indicate it was used in Constantine. Otherwise someone could steal the letter and use it in another city.

I don't understand the relevance of the above, the title deed for the tower near Ilbarsis would have fallen under the jurisdiction of the city state of Ilbarsis and so legally would be covered by the the power vested in Lord Vead.

Not about the deed. This is about process of verification of Brand as account holder. If they just file the letter, then it could be stolen and used in another city by someone pretending to be Brand, unless one of four things is true: (a) the letter is stamped or marked in some way to say it has been 'used', (b) the letter is only valid for a limited time, or (c) it is addressed specifically to Constantine Bank, and can only be used in Constantine, or (d) some other cunning plan. I just went with (a), but any system is fine, just let (and Brand) me know. Edit: of course, all four options couple be employed.

Constantine: 545 engles, 9 constantine, 6 lions and 2 cubs...403 engles, 6 constantines and 7 cubs.

Sorenden (-5 -1) notarized copy of title and 2 toolkits = 398 engles, 6 constantines and 7 cubs
Constantine: (-5 -1) (ditto) 539 engles, 9 constantine, 6 lions and 2 cubs. [[or did he already have a title copy from before?]

[[Sorry, I wasn't clear. He is very happy to accept Brand's money as an investment in his company—he was looking for investors at the time—but Brand was unable to persuade him for a general share. If you still want to go ahead with this investment. Brand will be a part owner of a new ship which is currently being built in New Nineveh.]]

[[Where did these the other options lead:]]

1. Persuasion of GM: should I have got a roll with Advantage, he's the n'uncle an' all? [[This seems even more relevant if he's already looking for funding]]

2. "I don't mind what you do with the money, Uncle. You've convinced me a new ship is a good idea. I'd be happy for it to be spent on a new ship; I just don't want to lose my investment if the ship sinks! I might be able to find a little more to invest, if that would help persuade you?"

3. If he would be happy to underwrite any losses should the ship be lost in any way, they I'd be happy to just have a share in a single ship that he managed. I'm just not clear on what is proposed.

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

Procedurally: I assume the letter has been stamped or somehow notarized to indicate it was used in Constantine. Otherwise someone could steal the letter and use it in another city.

I don't understand the relevance of the above, the title deed for the tower near Ilbarsis would have fallen under the jurisdiction of the city state of Ilbarsis and so legally would be covered by the the power vested in Lord Vead.

Not about the deed. This is about process of verification of Brand as account holder. If they just file the letter, then it could be stolen and used in another city by someone pretending to be Brand, unless one of four things is true: (a) the letter is stamped or marked in some way to say it has been 'used', (b) the letter is only valid for a limited time, or (c) it is addressed specifically to Constantine Bank, and can only be used in Constantine, or (d) some other cunning plan. I just went with (a), but any system is fine, just let (and Brand) me know. Edit: of course, all four options couple be employed.

The letter would be specific to the Constantine Bank and it would be annotated to say it had been received, but it would be kept as an example of the signature of the owner of the account and would be stored in a secure place.

Constantine: 545 engles, 9 constantine, 6 lions and 2 cubs...403 engles, 6 constantines and 7 cubs.

Sorenden (-5 -1) notarized copy of title and 2 toolkits = 398 engles, 6 constantines and 7 cubs
Constantine: (-5 -1) (ditto) 539 engles, 9 constantine, 6 lions and 2 cubs. [[or did he already have a title copy from before?]

Unless Brand wants to keep his original in the bank lockbox, then he would need to pay to have the extra copy made. Please modify your character sheet to show the above.

[[Sorry, I wasn't clear. He is very happy to accept Brand's money as an investment in his company—he was looking for investors at the time—but Brand was unable to persuade him for a general share. If you still want to go ahead with this investment. Brand will be a part owner of a new ship which is currently being built in New Nineveh.]]

[[Where did these the other options lead:]]

1. Persuasion of GM: should I have got a roll with Advantage, he's the n'uncle an' all? [[This seems even more relevant if he's already looking for funding]]

2. "I don't mind what you do with the money, Uncle. You've convinced me a new ship is a good idea. I'd be happy for it to be spent on a new ship; I just don't want to lose my investment if the ship sinks! I might be able to find a little more to invest, if that would help persuade you?"

3. If he would be happy to underwrite any losses should the ship be lost in any way, they I'd be happy to just have a share in a single ship that he managed. I'm just not clear on what is proposed.

Option 3 (sort of): The ship will be insured with a company in Sorenden.

 Unless Brand wants to keep his original in the bank lockbox, then he would need to pay to have the extra copy made. Please modify your character sheet to show the above.

He's not going to carry it around; copy-of-his-copy in NN, his copy in Constantine Lockbox, and I assume originals is with Veade.

The ship will be insured with a company in Sorenden.

Then Malacai only gets 100e; the other 100 more goes to the portfolio of non-specific investments, and 100 more to the bank.

Starting point:

- net wealth 1656e (1545e + 1108c + 15l + 45b) {{1655.8 + 0.15 + 0.045) = 1655.995)}
- 540 invested in bank in Constantine and I would like to talk about investment opportunities with Koric and perhaps get advice from wine traders as well.
- 400 invested in New Ninevah portfolio, Brand gets earnings paid periodically.
- 100 invested in Uncle Malacai's operation
- 500 invested in bank in New Ninevah, with the possibility of moving that into his investments in New Nineveh, or moving it to Constantine.
- 100 boxed

By my calc, we have:

Constantine Bank: 540 * 1.004, 1.003% 1.004) - 5 = 540.9616259 (approx!)  + (original title copy and 2 toolkits)
Sorendon Bank: 500 * 1.006 * 1.003 - 6 = 498.5090 + {notarized copy of title and 2 toolkits)
Portfolio: 400 (no earnings yet)
Malacai: 100 (no earnings yet) {representing a percentage share of a fully insured trading boat}

(40-1) = 39e in metal lockbox (cost 1e) bolted to floor under bed on estate. Box big enough to hold weapons, armour, bow...if he chose to (which he doesn't; shortbow under the pillow and all).
60 in Lockbox in Constantine.

Original remainder: 1655.995 - 1640 = 15.995 ; has spent 3 lions of this (barge + Kyne). Has also received allowance for ... 90 days(?) ... so +9e = 24.995; so add 5 to estate lock box, and carry rest:

44 estate lockbox
60 Con lockbox
Carried: 15.995 - 0.03 + 4 = 19.965.

[[Some questions:

1. What is current date, and when were investments made? Constantine probably had all his money when he went to last chance (lets say 12-2-551), then when he went to NN, took some, or arranged for it to be available in NN).

2. How long until Malacai venture starts earning?

3. When was the NN Banking done? (for ease, lets say one month after Constantine?)

4. When do the investments in the NN portfolio start paying?

5. I *think* I should I have 1 month interest on the NN stuff from Constantine bank? ie. it sat in Constantine Bank before being moved to Sorendon bank, one month later. This would mean that there was 4e (.004 * 1000) more in the Constantine account.

6. When is the allowance paid? First of month?

Once we have congruence, I will update character sheet...]]

 [[ A realistic sequence of events might be:

1. The bulk in Constantine bank (1540 starting) on 12-2-551

2. Go to NN (after last chance, which started 22-2-551; so maybe on 12-3-551? That gives him 10-15 days back in Constantine

3. Move 1000 to NN bank (some time after arriving; he was doing R&R) {{over to you!}} Note: this could be done before leaving for NN...

4. Move 100 to Malacai (he probably asked Malacais advice and as a result invested here first) {{over to you!}}

5. Move 400 to portfolio in NN some time later {{over to you!}}

 NOTE: The post after this has on suggestion that I did not want to include here because I can't tell when you read these...

[[Suggestion: because is so much easier and realistic, lets assume he paid for the tool kits using his own money and reimbursed himself from the estate lockbox...so, estate lockbox -11, and banks +5 and +6]]

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

 Unless Brand wants to keep his original in the bank lockbox, then he would need to pay to have the extra copy made. Please modify your character sheet to show the above.

He's not going to carry it around; copy-of-his-copy in NN, his copy in Constantine Lockbox, and I assume originals is with Veade.

The ship will be insured with a company in Sorenden.

Then Malacai only gets 100e; the other 100 more goes to the portfolio of non-specific investments, and 100 more to the bank.

Starting point:

- net wealth 1656e (1545e + 1108c + 15l + 45b) {{1655.8 + 0.15 + 0.045) = 1655.995)}
- 540 invested in bank in Constantine and I would like to talk about investment opportunities with Koric and perhaps get advice from wine traders as well.
- 400 invested in New Ninevah portfolio, Brand gets earnings paid periodically.
- 100 invested in Uncle Malacai's operation
- 500 invested in bank in New Ninevah, with the possibility of moving that into his investments in New Nineveh, or moving it to Constantine.
- 100 boxed

By my calc, we have:

Constantine Bank: 540 * 1.004, 1.003% 1.004) - 5 = 540.9616259 (approx!)  + (original title copy and 2 toolkits)
Sorendon Bank: 500 * 1.006 * 1.003 - 6 = 498.5090 + {notarized copy of title and 2 toolkits)
Portfolio: 400 (no earnings yet)
Malacai: 100 (no earnings yet) {representing a percentage share of a fully insured trading boat}

(40-1) = 39e in metal lockbox (cost 1e) bolted to floor under bed on estate. Box big enough to hold weapons, armour, bow...if he chose to (which he doesn't; shortbow under the pillow and all).
60 in Lockbox in Constantine.

Original remainder: 1655.995 - 1640 = 15.995 ; has spent 3 lions of this (barge + Kyne). Has also received allowance for ... 90 days(?) ... so +9e = 24.995; so add 5 to estate lock box, and carry rest:

44 estate lockbox
60 Con lockbox
Carried: 15.995 - 0.03 + 4 = 19.965.

[[Happy with all the above. Please put details on character sheet.]]

[[Some questions:

1. What is current date, and when were investments made? Constantine probably had all his money when he went to last chance (lets say 12-2-551), then when he went to NN, took some, or arranged for it to be available in NN).

2. How long until Malacai venture starts earning?

[[The above is still likely to be months away as he was still looking for investors when Brand left New Nineveh.]]

3. When was the NN Banking done? (for ease, lets say one month after Constantine?)

[[Yep. Makes it simpler.]]

4. When do the investments in the NN portfolio start paying?

[[Should get first dividends in about a month plus information travel time.]]

5. I *think* I should I have 1 month interest on the NN stuff from Constantine bank? ie. it sat in Constantine Bank before being moved to Sorendon bank, one month later. This would mean that there was 4e (.004 * 1000) more in the Constantine account.

[[Okay. Assuming No. 3 in the sequence of events below. Otherwise he would have to take the cash with him to New Nineveh as there are no branches of the Bank of Constantine in New Nineveh.]]

6. When is the allowance paid? First of month?

[[I think we might forget the allowance all together. Brand doesn't need it and now that I think about it I don't see his father (or his father's bookkeeper) letting an engle a tenday just disappear for who knows how long. Instead, we will assume that before he became independently wealthy, he just asked his parents for any money he needed.]]

Once we have congruence, I will update character sheet...]]

 [[ A realistic sequence of events might be:

1. The bulk in Constantine bank (1540 starting) on 12-2-551

2. Go to NN (after last chance, which started 22-2-551; so maybe on 12-3-551? That gives him 10-15 days back in Constantine

[[As mentioned above, unless he wanted to withdraw the cash and carry it with him, he would have to transfer the funds from the Bank of Constantine to the Bank of Sorenden before he left Constantine as there is no branch of the Bank of Constantine in New Nineveh.]]

3. Move 1000 to NN bank (some time after arriving; he was doing R&R) {{over to you!}} Note: this could be done before leaving for NN...

4. Move 100 to Malacai (he probably asked Malacais advice and as a result invested here first) {{over to you!}}

5. Move 400 to portfolio in NN some time later {{over to you!}}

 NOTE: The post after this has on suggestion that I did not want to include here because I can't tell when you read these...

[[I'm happy with all this apart from where I've made specific comments.]]

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

[[Suggestion: because is so much easier and realistic, lets assume he paid for the tool kits using his own money and reimbursed himself from the estate lockbox...so, estate lockbox -11, and banks +5 and +6]]

[[Yep. Makes sense.]]

[[Did you make a second roll after the failed Persuasion check I had you make? It's for experience points (see 'Experience through use of skills' on the world site).

[[Did you make a second roll after the failed Persuasion check I had you make? It's for experience points (see 'Experience through use of skills' on the world site).]]

Roll (Persuasion for XP): 19

[[Question: Are there other rolls I have failed and should make XP for? There were insight for boat (#292: failed?), perception (#286: listening on boat, failed). ]]

[[Question: any idea of the 5 UNKNOWN dates below?]]

[[Question: how do I tell if I fail or success a roll?]]

Re-re-re-revised finances:

Constantine Bank: 1000 * 0.004 + 540 * 1.004 * 1.003% 1.004)  = 549.9616259 (approx!)  + (original title copy and 2 toolkits)
Sorendon Bank: 500 * 1.006 * 1.003 = 504.5090 + {notarized copy of title and 2 toolkits)
Portfolio: 400 (no earnings yet)
Malacai: 100 (no earnings yet) {representing a percentage share of a fully insured trading boat}

Lockbox (Estate): 29 = 40 - 11(kits+notary) - 1(box)
Lockbox (Constantine): 60

Carried: 15.995 - 0.03 = 15.965.

Additional Posessions:

Metal lockbox bolted to floor under bed on estate. Box big enough to hold weapons, armour, bow...if he chose to (which he doesn't; shortbow under the pillow and all).
Original copy of title for tower in Ilbarsis (in Bank of Constantine).
Notarized copy of title for tower in New Ninevah Bank lockbox.
Thieves tools and Disguise Kit in small sack in lockbox in Constantine.
Thieves tools and Disguise Kit in small sack in lockbox in New Nineveh.
Stingy father who does not even pay for simple upkeep of his needy son.

Important Dates:

12-2-551 - preparing for Last Chance mission; initial deposit in Bank of Engle in Constatntine (ConBank? eBank? gotta have a catch brand)
12-3-551 - transfer 1000e to Bank of Sorendon while still in Constantine
UNKNOWN - arrive in New Nineveh
UNKNOWN - invest in Malacai's venture (return is months away as he was still looking for investors when Brand left New Nineveh)
UNKNOWN - invest in New Nineveh Portfolio (2 months prior to date of return)
UNKNOWN - return from New Nineveh
UNKNOWN - current date (may be day after date of return)

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

[[Did you make a second roll after the failed Persuasion check I had you make? It's for experience points (see 'Experience through use of skills' on the world site).]]

Roll (Persuasion for XP): 9

[[This is still a failure and so no experience points.]]

[[Question: Are there other rolls I have failed and should make XP for? There were insight for boat (#292: failed?), perception (#286: listening on boat, failed). ]]

[[You can roll for the failed Perception roll in #286, but I didn't consider the Insight roll in #292 a failure. And anyway, because you changed your mind and offered to buy him a drink without waiting to hear the result, the Insight check became null and void.]]

[[Question: any idea of the 5 UNKNOWN dates below?]]

[[Not yet, but I will be basing them on the dates you have provided when I get the chance to think about them.]]

[[Question: how do I tell if I fail or success a roll?]]

[[For some checks the result is obvious and I will even tell you the DC in some circumstances. In other cases where the character can't know if they succeed or not, then you don't. In those cases, I'm actually thinking I should make the experience check myself and add the points, if any, later to keep the success or failure secret.]]

Re-re-re-revised finances:

Constantine Bank: 1000 * 0.004 + 540 * 1.004 * 1.003% 1.004)  = 549.9616259 (approx!)  + (original title copy and 2 toolkits)
Sorendon Bank: 500 * 1.006 * 1.003 = 504.5090 + {notarized copy of title and 2 toolkits)
Portfolio: 400 (no earnings yet)
Malacai: 100 (no earnings yet) {representing a percentage share of a fully insured trading boat}

Lockbox (Estate): 29 = 40 - 11(kits+notary) - 1(box)
Lockbox (Constantine): 60

Carried: 15.995 - 0.03 = 15.965.

Additional Posessions:

Metal lockbox bolted to floor under bed on estate. Box big enough to hold weapons, armour, bow...if he chose to (which he doesn't; shortbow under the pillow and all).
Original copy of title for tower in Ilbarsis (in Bank of Constantine).
Notarized copy of title for tower in New Ninevah Bank lockbox.
Thieves tools and Disguise Kit in small sack in lockbox in Constantine.
Thieves tools and Disguise Kit in small sack in lockbox in New Nineveh.
Stingy father who does not even pay for simple upkeep of his needy son.

Important Dates:

12-2-551 - preparing for Last Chance mission; initial deposit in Bank of Engle in Constatntine (ConBank? eBank? gotta have a catch brand)
12-3-551 - transfer 1000e to Bank of Sorendon while still in Constantine
UNKNOWN - arrive in New Nineveh
UNKNOWN - invest in Malacai's venture (return is months away as he was still looking for investors when Brand left New Nineveh)
UNKNOWN - invest in New Nineveh Portfolio (2 months prior to date of return)
UNKNOWN - return from New Nineveh
UNKNOWN - current date (may be day after date of return)

[[The unknown dates will come after I get the chance to properly think about them, which at the moment is proving difficult.]]

[[It might be a good idea if you redo the last actual thing you had Brand do before we did all the financial stuff. Not that this wasn't all valuable, but I never got round to responding to that move anyway.]]