So, l'm makeing a character, and after doing some research, came up with a really cool idea, but l want a second opinion on if it's legal. (l think it is based on what i've read, but l want to make sure i'm not missing something) (Ps, this is the first major "power build" i've ever done, and this is meant to just be a " ultimate attack" they could use if the stars align, and won't detract from actual role play. This is just a cool attack l came up with, and the multiclassing will give some interesting roleplay for the character.)
Ok, so here it is: (for context, the character would be Storm sorcerer 5, tempest cleric 2, fighter 2, so 9th level total)Chanel Divinity(Lightning spell does max damage) ,Quickened (spell becomes bonus action) lightning bolt + (Action) cantrip (undecided) (Cantrips can be used with leveled bonus action spell as proven here) + Action Surge (LV2 fighter ability that grants a Second action. (Not a spell?)), Empowered (Can re-roll a few low rolls) Lightning bolt.
(Edit, because my original text might be confusing, and l want everything to be as clear as possible and because i'm confused on what the issue in my plan is) or, in other words, on my turn: l cast lightning bolt, and use the "quickened spell" meta magic to turn it into a bonus action, which is powered to max damage with Tempest clerics Chanel divinity, with my action being used to cast a cantrip. Then l use Action surge from being a 2nd level fighter to gain another action, which l use to cast another "Empowered" (metamagic to let me reroll a few 1's or 2s) lightning bolt. Please, if my idea really has a flaw, copy/Quote the part that has it and tell me what's wrong with it, especially if you can provide official sources(like those on this website). (though l only have access to the basic rules, and won't be able to access other things, like the PHB, for awhile) (l got info for the subclass' from This Site, that's how l know about them without owning the book/s they're in.)
Then,(after a short rest) if I want to do that again that day, (and somehow didn't use any of my other spell slots) l can spend all my other spell slots (well, the four 1st and three 2nd to gain 10 sorcery points. Actually, I just did some testing in the character builder, and found out that this build would have three 3rd level slots, and one 4th, so that works out great for me, as l can just use the 3rd and 4th level slots to cast them (4th level for the Chanel divinity), and turn two 2nd level slots into sorcery points (or maybe just one 1st and one 2nd, as l have a spare point)
(in total, if the enemy/s fails all 3 saves, and doesn't resist lightning, that combo has a maximum of over 100 damage, though would likely be closer to 65-70 or much lower if things don't go perfectly, which will likely happen.)
TL;DR: Rules as writen, i'm pretty sure this is legal, but l want to know if there is some rule forbidding channel divinity, action surge, and some meta magic being used to cast 2 spells and one cantrip in a single turn.
EDIT: So, a few of you mentioned not being able to use Action Surge (with the quickened meta magic or cantrip), and make it sound like a spell (even that sage advice calls it a spell) but HOW? How is it a spell? Quote: Action Surge: Starting at 2nd level, you can push yourself beyond your normal limits for a moment. On your turn, you can take one additional action.
Note the lack of mentioning anything about magic or it being a bonus action/Action. RAW, it's just "going beyond plus ultra" (sorry if you find anime quotes cringe, l don't really care, it's the most fitting wording l could think of)
Sorry if this sounds aggressive, I'm just confused, and want to make sure l understand. I write this cause l want to clarify that incase you thought l was...IDK.
Ok, so l seem to be getting some differing responses. Some are saying you can't cast 2 leveled spells on your turn no matter what, while others agree that it's legal (Which is backed up by this "sage advice" which says you can, if you scroll down to the "Casting time" section.) and a few other things.
OK, so l think i've found the source of confusion! I asked about RAW, and everyone is telling me l can't because of the "only one leveled spell per turn unless it's one bonus action spell and a cantrip" rule (Shown in comments), where as l was looking at the Sage advice (linked above)about how You Can do what l want to do (BA spell+cantrip+action surge spell). There for, I think i'll leave this as a matter to sort out with the dm who l get to play this character with. If they don't allow the sage advice, i'll drop the BA LB+cantrip part of the plan. (Though l hope they won't, not just because it's a cool thing l want to do, but because it says here that the sage advice l linked is considered a official ruling, though the dm does make final say)
And despite my feelings on the matter, this has been informative, so thank you.
Edit again: Ok, so i'm guessing the answer is no, but what if l use quickened spell to cast the cantrip as a bonus, with the action being lightning bolt? The idea just came to me, and i'm doubtful, but l have to ask.
If you cast a quickened lightning bolt, you can't cast it again with Action Surge. The only other spells you can cast on your turn after casting a spell as a bonus action are cantrips with a cast time of one action, and lightning bolt is not a cantrip.
If you cast a quickened lightning bolt, you can't cast it again with Action Surge. The only other spells you can cast on your turn after casting a spell as a bonus action are cantrips with a cast time of one action, and lightning bolt is not a cantrip.
However you can just cast Lighting bolt twice with action then action surge as long as you don't cast a spell with your BA.
But you can cast a regular Lightning Bolt with an action, and Action Surge to cast a second Lightning Bolt with a second action. Just skip the Quickened metamagic and the cantrip on any round where you plan to Action Surge, and the core of your maximizing lightning damage trick is fine. Your Channel Divinity doesn't take an action, but does only effect one spell not all spells cast that turn, so you'll need to use it each time.
Action Surge isn't a spell and no-one here is claiming it is. SagaTympana and Chicken_Champ covered it very well: you can't BA Lightning Bolt + Action Lightning Bolt, no matter how many actions you get. You can Action Lightning Bolt + Action Lightning Bolt, but only if your BA isn't a spell.
Everything about your build is legal, you'll just be MAD. You need Wis 13 Cha 13 Str/Dex 13 to even make the character, so even if you solve the AC problem with heavy armor, your Con will be trash.
My ruling would be one levelled spell per turn, not per action. You could quickened spell lightning bolt as a bonus action and then fire bolt as an action. If you used action surge you could not cast a levelled spell with that action, as you have already cast a levelled spell that turn. I would, however, allow you to cast another cantrip with that action.
My ruling would be one levelled spell per turn, not per action. You could quickened spell lightning bolt as a bonus action and then fire bolt as an action. If you used action surge you could not cast a levelled spell with that action, as you have already cast a levelled spell that turn. I would, however, allow you to cast another cantrip with that action.
That would be a house rule in your games but is not the rules as written. As others have said the limitation on spells is if you cast a spell as a bonus action the only spells you can cast on the rest of your turn are cantrips with a casting time of one action. Quoting your house rules in a thread such as this is likely to cause confusion.
My ruling would be one levelled spell per turn, not per action. You could quickened spell lightning bolt as a bonus action and then fire bolt as an action. If you used action surge you could not cast a levelled spell with that action, as you have already cast a levelled spell that turn. I would, however, allow you to cast another cantrip with that action.
That would be a house rule in your games but is not the rules as written. As others have said the limitation on spells is if you cast a spell as a bonus action the only spells you can cast on the rest of your turn are cantrips with a casting time of one action. Quoting your house rules in a thread such as this is likely to cause confusion.
Is that not what I said? One levelled spell as a bonus action per turn (Lightning Bolt in this case). Then any other spells need to be cantrips with a casting time of one action (which Fire Bolt is). Using Action Surge gives you another action with which to cast an additional cantrip with a casting time of one action. I’m confused about people earlier in the thread saying that Action Surge would allow another casting of Lightning Bolt on the same turn. I am also confused about where my ruling differs from RAW.
I’m not trying to be argumentative here, just want to clear thing up.
Is that not what I said? One levelled spell as a bonus action per turn (Lightning Bolt in this case). Then any other spells need to be cantrips with a casting time of one action (which Fire Bolt is). Using Action Surge gives you another action with which to cast an additional cantrip with a casting time of one action. I’m confused about people earlier in the thread saying that Action Surge would allow another casting of Lightning Bolt on the same turn. I am also confused about where my ruling differs from RAW.
I’m not trying to be argumentative here, just want to clear thing up.
The limitation is ONLY when spells are cast with a bonus action.
If you have any ability to cast multiple spells without using your BA then they can all be leveled spells. For example if you action surge to get another action. Or if you cast using a reaction. Or some other feature.
You could even throw a Fireball and then action surge another Fireball and need to do a Counterspell battle with an opposing mage to get one of them off. Three leveled spells in one turn, all fully legal.
Is that not what I said? One levelled spell as a bonus action per turn (Lightning Bolt in this case). Then any other spells need to be cantrips with a casting time of one action (which Fire Bolt is). Using Action Surge gives you another action with which to cast an additional cantrip with a casting time of one action. I’m confused about people earlier in the thread saying that Action Surge would allow another casting of Lightning Bolt on the same turn. I am also confused about where my ruling differs from RAW.
I’m not trying to be argumentative here, just want to clear thing up.
The limitation is ONLY when spells are cast with a bonus action.
If you have any ability to cast multiple spells without using your BA then they can all be leveled spells. For example if you action surge to get another action. Or if you cast using a reaction. Or some other feature.
You could even throw a Fireball and then action surge another Fireball and need to do a Counterspell battle with an opposing mage to get one of them off. Three leveled spells in one turn, all fully legal.
Ooooooh.
Sorry, that makes sense haha.
I guess my example would still be true just suboptimal. Thanks for clarifying!
I guess my example would still be true just suboptimal. Thanks for clarifying!
Possibly not suboptimal, just situational.
Could well be wanting to do [Tooltip Not Found] as their action (and surge) and then get some healing or utility in via a BA spell. Or something similar.
I would rule that the Action Surge would have to be a cantrip in this case since it's what the rules say.
This Sage Advice:
Is there a limit on the number of spells you can cast on your turn? There’s no rule that says you can cast only X number of spells on your turn, but there are some practical limits. The main limiting factor is your action. Most spells require an action to cast, and unless you use a feature like the fighter’s Action Surge, you have only one action on your turn.If you cast a spell, such as healing word, with a bonus action, you can cast another spell with your action, but that other spell must be a cantrip. Keep in mind that this particular limit is specific to spells that use a bonus action. For instance, if you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it.
Is in direct contradiction with this rule:
Casting Time: You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
And this ruling from Jeremy Crawford:
@ghandi89 Can I misty step (bonus), fire bolt (action) and fireball (surge) on same turn? Or need action surge also be a cantrip?
@jeremyECrawford In that situation, the Action Surge spell would also need to be a cantrip.
@tclayton If Action Surge is another complete action why does the spell need to be a cantrip? Thx.
@jeremyECrawford The rule on bonus action spells pertains to your whole turn, not to a particular action (PH, 202).
I would rule that the Action Surge would have to be a cantrip in this case since it's what the rules say.
This Sage Advice:
Is there a limit on the number of spells you can cast on your turn? There’s no rule that says you can cast only X number of spells on your turn, but there are some practical limits. The main limiting factor is your action. Most spells require an action to cast, and unless you use a feature like the fighter’s Action Surge, you have only one action on your turn.If you cast a spell, such as healing word, with a bonus action, you can cast another spell with your action, but that other spell must be a cantrip. Keep in mind that this particular limit is specific to spells that use a bonus action. For instance, if you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it.
Is in direct contradiction with this rule:
Casting Time: You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
And this ruling from Jeremy Crawford:
@ghandi89 Can I misty step (bonus), fire bolt (action) and fireball (surge) on same turn? Or need action surge also be a cantrip?
@jeremyECrawford In that situation, the Action Surge spell would also need to be a cantrip.
@tclayton If Action Surge is another complete action why does the spell need to be a cantrip? Thx.
@jeremyECrawford The rule on bonus action spells pertains to your whole turn, not to a particular action (PH, 202).
Yeah in the first example it would need to be a Cantrip as they used a Quicken to BA cast Lightning Bolt
If you just Action: Lightning Bolt then Action Surge: Lightning Bolt and NOT Quicken anything then you are golden
I would rule that the Action Surge would have to be a cantrip in this case since it's what the rules say.
This Sage Advice:
Is there a limit on the number of spells you can cast on your turn? There’s no rule that says you can cast only X number of spells on your turn, but there are some practical limits. The main limiting factor is your action. Most spells require an action to cast, and unless you use a feature like the fighter’s Action Surge, you have only one action on your turn.If you cast a spell, such as healing word, with a bonus action, you can cast another spell with your action, but that other spell must be a cantrip. Keep in mind that this particular limit is specific to spells that use a bonus action. For instance, if you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it.
Is in direct contradiction with this rule:
Casting Time: You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
And this ruling from Jeremy Crawford:
@ghandi89 Can I misty step (bonus), fire bolt (action) and fireball (surge) on same turn? Or need action surge also be a cantrip?
@jeremyECrawford In that situation, the Action Surge spell would also need to be a cantrip.
@tclayton If Action Surge is another complete action why does the spell need to be a cantrip? Thx.
@jeremyECrawford The rule on bonus action spells pertains to your whole turn, not to a particular action (PH, 202).
Yeah in the first example it would need to be a Cantrip as they used a Quicken to BA cast Lightning Bolt
If you just Action: Lightning Bolt then Action Surge: Lightning Bolt and NOT Quicken anything then you are golden
So are these rules equally valid? Does sage advice overrule the rule written here? I guess it depends on the DM. No wonder I was confused.
Most spells require a single action to cast, but some spells require a bonus action, a reaction, or much more time to cast.
Bonus Action
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
Reactions
Some spells can be cast as reactions. These spells take a fraction of a second to bring about and are cast in response to some event. If a spell can be cast as a reaction, the spell description tells you exactly when you can do so.
Longer Casting Times
Certain spells (including spells cast as rituals) require more time to cast: minutes or even hours. When you cast a spell with a casting time longer than a single action or reaction, you must spend your action each turn casting the spell, and you must maintain your concentration while you do so. If your concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don't expend a spell slot. If you want to try casting the spell again, you must start over.
So yes action surge lets you cast two leveled spells in one turn as the rule you are referring to is only for Bonus Action spells.
Plague, stop quoting the SAC... it isn’t wrong, but it IS confusing you with its examples, clearly.
Just read the Bonus Action spell section closely, then pause, and realize THAT is the only rule that matters here. What does that rule say about casting two leveled spells with two actions? Nothing, so that’s okay, if you have two actions. A leveled spell with an action, and a leveled spell as a reaction? Nothing, so that’s okay too. A spell (leveled or cantrip) as a Bonus and a- STOP! Bonus Spell Alert! Only other spells on this turn are a Action Cantrip, no Action leveled or Reactions!
But you can cast a regular Lightning Bolt with an action, and Action Surge to cast a second Lightning Bolt with a second action. Just skip the Quickened metamagic and the cantrip on any round where you plan to Action Surge, and the core of your maximizing lightning damage trick is fine. Your Channel Divinity doesn't take an action, but does only effect one spell not all spells cast that turn, so you'll need to use it each time.
Why shouldn't l Quicken the first one and cast a cantrip? If l'm understanding it correctly, you seem to be saying that the bonus action casting of lightning bolt (Which would allow the cantrip use) will stop me from being able to use the action surge to cast another lightning bolt, but the official sage advice l linked to in my most resent edit says (to my understanding at least) that you can cast a slotted spell as your action surge if you already cast a BA slot + cantrip.
(Edit: ok, so never mind l guess? I asked about RAW, and based on what i'm reading, The sage advice thing doesn't count? Does sage advice count as optional rules or something? It's on the offical site, but how offical is it? (Welp, looks like l might have to make a "how offical is sage advice" thread.)
Everything about your build is legal, you'll just be MAD. You need Wis 13 Cha 13 Str/Dex 13 to even make the character, so even if you solve the AC problem with heavy armor, your Con will be trash.
What do you mean by "MAD"? I've never heard that term before. As for the stats, I hope to either roll well, or use point buy+ racial bonus+ ASI to reach it, plus being a glass cannon isn't necessarily bad.
So, l'm makeing a character, and after doing some research, came up with a really cool idea, but l want a second opinion on if it's legal. (l think it is based on what i've read, but l want to make sure i'm not missing something) (Ps, this is the first major "power build" i've ever done, and this is meant to just be a " ultimate attack" they could use if the stars align, and won't detract from actual role play. This is just a cool attack l came up with, and the multiclassing will give some interesting roleplay for the character.)
Ok, so here it is: (for context, the character would be Storm sorcerer 5, tempest cleric 2, fighter 2, so 9th level total) Chanel Divinity(Lightning spell does max damage) ,Quickened (spell becomes bonus action) lightning bolt + (Action) cantrip (undecided) (Cantrips can be used with leveled bonus action spell as proven here) + Action Surge (LV2 fighter ability that grants a Second action. (Not a spell?)), Empowered (Can re-roll a few low rolls) Lightning bolt.
(Edit, because my original text might be confusing, and l want everything to be as clear as possible and because i'm confused on what the issue in my plan is) or, in other words, on my turn: l cast lightning bolt, and use the "quickened spell" meta magic to turn it into a bonus action, which is powered to max damage with Tempest clerics Chanel divinity, with my action being used to cast a cantrip. Then l use Action surge from being a 2nd level fighter to gain another action, which l use to cast another "Empowered" (metamagic to let me reroll a few 1's or 2s) lightning bolt. Please, if my idea really has a flaw, copy/Quote the part that has it and tell me what's wrong with it, especially if you can provide official sources(like those on this website). (though l only have access to the basic rules, and won't be able to access other things, like the PHB, for awhile) (l got info for the subclass' from This Site, that's how l know about them without owning the book/s they're in.)
Then,(after a short rest) if I want to do that again that day, (and somehow didn't use any of my other spell slots) l can spend all my other spell slots (
well, the four 1st and three 2nd to gain 10 sorcery points.Actually, I just did some testing in the character builder, and found out that this build would have three 3rd level slots, and one 4th, so that works out great for me, as l can just use the 3rd and 4th level slots to cast them (4th level for the Chanel divinity), and turn two 2nd level slots into sorcery points (or maybe just one 1st and one 2nd, as l have a spare point)(in total, if the enemy/s fails all 3 saves, and doesn't resist lightning, that combo has a maximum of over 100 damage, though would likely be closer to 65-70 or much lower if things don't go perfectly, which will likely happen.)
TL;DR: Rules as writen, i'm pretty sure this is legal, but l want to know if there is some rule forbidding channel divinity, action surge, and some meta magic being used to cast 2 spells and one cantrip in a single turn.
EDIT: So, a few of you mentioned not being able to use Action Surge (with the quickened meta magic or cantrip), and make it sound like a spell (even that sage advice calls it a spell) but HOW? How is it a spell? Quote: Action Surge: Starting at 2nd level, you can push yourself beyond your normal limits for a moment. On your turn, you can take one additional action.
Note the lack of mentioning anything about magic or it being a bonus action/Action. RAW, it's just "going beyond plus ultra" (sorry if you find anime quotes cringe, l don't really care, it's the most fitting wording l could think of)
Sorry if this sounds aggressive, I'm just confused, and want to make sure l understand. I write this cause l want to clarify that incase you thought l was...IDK.
Ok, so l seem to be getting some differing responses. Some are saying you can't cast 2 leveled spells on your turn no matter what, while others agree that it's legal (Which is backed up by this "sage advice" which says you can, if you scroll down to the "Casting time" section.) and a few other things.
OK, so l think i've found the source of confusion! I asked about RAW, and everyone is telling me l can't because of the "only one leveled spell per turn unless it's one bonus action spell and a cantrip" rule (Shown in comments), where as l was looking at the Sage advice (linked above)about how You Can do what l want to do (BA spell+cantrip+action surge spell). There for, I think i'll leave this as a matter to sort out with the dm who l get to play this character with. If they don't allow the sage advice, i'll drop the BA LB+cantrip part of the plan. (Though l hope they won't, not just because it's a cool thing l want to do, but because it says here that the sage advice l linked is considered a official ruling, though the dm does make final say)
And despite my feelings on the matter, this has been informative, so thank you.
Edit again: Ok, so i'm guessing the answer is no, but what if l use quickened spell to cast the cantrip as a bonus, with the action being lightning bolt? The idea just came to me, and i'm doubtful, but l have to ask.
If you cast a quickened lightning bolt, you can't cast it again with Action Surge. The only other spells you can cast on your turn after casting a spell as a bonus action are cantrips with a cast time of one action, and lightning bolt is not a cantrip.
However you can just cast Lighting bolt twice with action then action surge as long as you don't cast a spell with your BA.
But you can cast a regular Lightning Bolt with an action, and Action Surge to cast a second Lightning Bolt with a second action. Just skip the Quickened metamagic and the cantrip on any round where you plan to Action Surge, and the core of your maximizing lightning damage trick is fine. Your Channel Divinity doesn't take an action, but does only effect one spell not all spells cast that turn, so you'll need to use it each time.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Well, I am pretty confused as to what you are actually asking, but yeah everyone else is right.
Action Surge isn't a spell and no-one here is claiming it is. SagaTympana and Chicken_Champ covered it very well: you can't BA Lightning Bolt + Action Lightning Bolt, no matter how many actions you get. You can Action Lightning Bolt + Action Lightning Bolt, but only if your BA isn't a spell.
Everything about your build is legal, you'll just be MAD. You need Wis 13 Cha 13 Str/Dex 13 to even make the character, so even if you solve the AC problem with heavy armor, your Con will be trash.
My ruling would be one levelled spell per turn, not per action. You could quickened spell lightning bolt as a bonus action and then fire bolt as an action. If you used action surge you could not cast a levelled spell with that action, as you have already cast a levelled spell that turn. I would, however, allow you to cast another cantrip with that action.
That would be a house rule in your games but is not the rules as written. As others have said the limitation on spells is if you cast a spell as a bonus action the only spells you can cast on the rest of your turn are cantrips with a casting time of one action. Quoting your house rules in a thread such as this is likely to cause confusion.
Is that not what I said? One levelled spell as a bonus action per turn (Lightning Bolt in this case). Then any other spells need to be cantrips with a casting time of one action (which Fire Bolt is). Using Action Surge gives you another action with which to cast an additional cantrip with a casting time of one action. I’m confused about people earlier in the thread saying that Action Surge would allow another casting of Lightning Bolt on the same turn. I am also confused about where my ruling differs from RAW.
I’m not trying to be argumentative here, just want to clear thing up.
The limitation is ONLY when spells are cast with a bonus action.
If you have any ability to cast multiple spells without using your BA then they can all be leveled spells.
For example if you action surge to get another action. Or if you cast using a reaction. Or some other feature.
You could even throw a Fireball and then action surge another Fireball and need to do a Counterspell battle with an opposing mage to get one of them off. Three leveled spells in one turn, all fully legal.
Ooooooh.
Sorry, that makes sense haha.
I guess my example would still be true just suboptimal. Thanks for clarifying!
Possibly not suboptimal, just situational.
Could well be wanting to do [Tooltip Not Found] as their action (and surge) and then get some healing or utility in via a BA spell. Or something similar.
I would rule that the Action Surge would have to be a cantrip in this case since it's what the rules say.
This Sage Advice:
Is there a limit on the number of spells you can cast on your turn? There’s no rule that says you can cast only X number of spells on your turn, but there are some practical limits. The main limiting factor is your action. Most spells require an action to cast, and unless you use a feature like the fighter’s Action Surge, you have only one action on your turn.If you cast a spell, such as healing word, with a bonus action, you can cast another spell with your action, but that other spell must be a cantrip. Keep in mind that this particular limit is specific to spells that use a bonus action. For instance, if you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it.
Is in direct contradiction with this rule:
Casting Time: You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
And this ruling from Jeremy Crawford:
@ghandi89 Can I misty step (bonus), fire bolt (action) and fireball (surge) on same turn? Or need action surge also be a cantrip?
@jeremyECrawford In that situation, the Action Surge spell would also need to be a cantrip.
@tclayton If Action Surge is another complete action why does the spell need to be a cantrip? Thx.
@jeremyECrawford The rule on bonus action spells pertains to your whole turn, not to a particular action (PH, 202).
Yeah in the first example it would need to be a Cantrip as they used a Quicken to BA cast Lightning Bolt
If you just Action: Lightning Bolt then Action Surge: Lightning Bolt and NOT Quicken anything then you are golden
So are these rules equally valid? Does sage advice overrule the rule written here? I guess it depends on the DM. No wonder I was confused.
Edit: wait never mind I get it.
Casting Time
Most spells require a single action to cast, but some spells require a bonus action, a reaction, or much more time to cast.
Bonus Action
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
Reactions
Some spells can be cast as reactions. These spells take a fraction of a second to bring about and are cast in response to some event. If a spell can be cast as a reaction, the spell description tells you exactly when you can do so.
Longer Casting Times
Certain spells (including spells cast as rituals) require more time to cast: minutes or even hours. When you cast a spell with a casting time longer than a single action or reaction, you must spend your action each turn casting the spell, and you must maintain your concentration while you do so. If your concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don't expend a spell slot. If you want to try casting the spell again, you must start over.
So yes action surge lets you cast two leveled spells in one turn as the rule you are referring to is only for Bonus Action spells.
The way the rules are worded, you cannot even cast a spell as a reaction on the same turn that you cast spells as an action and a bonus action.
Plague, stop quoting the SAC... it isn’t wrong, but it IS confusing you with its examples, clearly.
Just read the Bonus Action spell section closely, then pause, and realize THAT is the only rule that matters here. What does that rule say about casting two leveled spells with two actions? Nothing, so that’s okay, if you have two actions. A leveled spell with an action, and a leveled spell as a reaction? Nothing, so that’s okay too. A spell (leveled or cantrip) as a Bonus and a- STOP! Bonus Spell Alert! Only other spells on this turn are a Action Cantrip, no Action leveled or Reactions!
It only gets confusing when you paraphrase it.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
That is not anything the rules prohibit. And it is even made perfectly clear by the SAC that it is allowed.
Though if you cast a spell as a bonus action then you are right in that it would prohibit even reaction spells.
Why shouldn't l Quicken the first one and cast a cantrip? If l'm understanding it correctly, you seem to be saying that the bonus action casting of lightning bolt (Which would allow the cantrip use) will stop me from being able to use the action surge to cast another lightning bolt, but the official sage advice l linked to in my most resent edit says (to my understanding at least) that you can cast a slotted spell as your action surge if you already cast a BA slot + cantrip.
(Edit: ok, so never mind l guess? I asked about RAW, and based on what i'm reading, The sage advice thing doesn't count? Does sage advice count as optional rules or something? It's on the offical site, but how offical is it? (Welp, looks like l might have to make a "how offical is sage advice" thread.)
What do you mean by "MAD"? I've never heard that term before. As for the stats, I hope to either roll well, or use point buy+ racial bonus+ ASI to reach it, plus being a glass cannon isn't necessarily bad.