So, I'm sure the question has been right and asked already, but I'm wondering, how does the rabbit hop ability interact, if at all, with the jump spell or magical jump modifiers? Before they were just rabbit folk, it was pretty obvious it didn't, since rabbit hop said "you hop 1d10 feet" or something, but now it reads
Rabbit hop: As a bonus action, you can jump a number of feet equal to five times your proficiency bonus, without provoking opportunity attacks. You can use this trait only if your speed is greater than 0. You can use it a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.
And jump spell: You touch a creature. The creature's jump distance is tripled until the spell ends
Rabbit hop specifies that you now jump, and jump spell increases your jump distance... now, in sure, as intended, they aren't... but nothing says, as written, that's the case... how would you rule it?
I can't see any reason why they wouldn't stack. Which suddenly makes jump a lot more fun
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I can't see any reason why they wouldn't stack. Which suddenly makes jump a lot more fun
They wouldn't stack beocuse it don't rely on jumping speed or distance.
I mean, the jump as part of a movement is limited by your SRT points and your movement speed. You can't jump normaly more than the amount of feets your STR permits you and also it counts against your remaining movement speed. So, the jump spells would let you just to jump three times more than you should while using that kind of movement, right?
Now, Rabbit hop isn't relied on your movement speed. You can, for exemple use your entire movement on your turn, than use rabbit hop to go a bit longer than you should with your jump movement, since it does its not determinated by movement speed limit and it's not an actual movement for mechanical porpouse. right?
They wouldn't stack beocuse it don't rely on jumping speed or distance.
I'd allow it. Nothing in the Jump spell or the Monk's Step of the Wind ability mentions movement.
Right, it's reasonable.
I think the matter of mentioning movement its becouse before that rabbit hop the only mention on jumping distance where on "special types of movement" (as I can remember). I mean, jump spell never mention movement but your jump distance where always limited on movement until that trait, right? When someone use jump spell you would have it to jump triple within this movement limitation or you would let it trepass that limit?
Anyway, maybe the intent on chose the word "jump" in the rabbit hop is to make it passable for those spell and feature.
They wouldn't stack beocuse it don't rely on jumping speed or distance.
I'd allow it. Nothing in the Jump spell or the Monk's Step of the Wind ability mentions movement.
Well, unfortunately, step of the wind is a bonus action, same as this ability. Here's the thing, if I'm reading this correctly (and I very well might not be) , this is actual, bonus movement. "As a bonus action, move (prof x5) feet (prof) times per day. If the jump spell (or boots of striding and springing) work with it, at level 1, that's 30ft of extra, non-reactable movement. Basically a bonus action dash, but it gets better with level.
Don't get me wrong, I'm actually the player in this scenario, I had made a rabbitfolk monk for a game in playing with boots of springing, I just want to know I'm reading this correctly and fairly. I'm also going to talk with my dm and see how he rules it, mind, I just want to be able to state a case (and accept what his final verdict is)
They wouldn't stack beocuse it don't rely on jumping speed or distance.
I'd allow it. Nothing in the Jump spell or the Monk's Step of the Wind ability mentions movement.
Well, unfortunately, step of the wind is a bonus action, same as this ability. Here's the thing, if I'm reading this correctly (and I very well might not be) , this is actual, bonus movement. "As a bonus action, move (prof x5) feet (prof) times per day. If the jump spell (or boots of striding and springing) work with it, at level 1, that's 30ft of extra, non-reactable movement. Basically a bonus action dash, but it gets better with level.
Don't get me wrong, I'm actually the player in this scenario, I had made a rabbitfolk monk for a game in playing with boots of springing, I just want to know I'm reading this correctly and fairly. I'm also going to talk with my dm and see how he rules it, mind, I just want to be able to state a case (and accept what his final verdict is)
That is some of the situation I would evaluate before make sure of before I would allow it as DM.
In that case at 10th level that Haregon monk would have 50ft speed. Using dash as an action it would go trhough 100ft of movement. If it jumps has a 15ft (lets supose) it would't trepass that limit even if its jump distance where tripled by jump or the boots of striding and springing, so the 45 feet jumping would still within that 100ft. But now, after all that movement, it use its bonus action to rabbit hop and than leaps more 60ft ( +4 proficiency bonus 5 times than tripled). Thats a total of 160ft. in a single round of a 10th level monk and it beats a Solar (CR21) flying speed of 150ft (without a dash of course) that is the fastest creature in 5e that I can remember.
And the wierd comes when it reach 20th level. It would have 60ft movement + 60ft dash action + 90 ft rabbit hop tripled by jump spell (also any class would have that wierd 90ft jump that way). 210 ft. total thats crazy.
I think that is something to take in consideration.
Oh yeah, forgot about the bonus action, was just thinking of things that affect jump distance.
I think you've got a fair case for combining the spell with the hop though.
I do to. Also, it's just nice to have this question here for others wondering the same thing, if they look a little. The boots of striding and springing are a tougher case, since they actually mention being unable to move farther than your move speed, but the jump spell is a definite case (might make me choose the ring of jumping over the boots of springing as my starting uncommon magic item)
They wouldn't stack beocuse it don't rely on jumping speed or distance.
I'd allow it. Nothing in the Jump spell or the Monk's Step of the Wind ability mentions movement.
Well, unfortunately, step of the wind is a bonus action, same as this ability. Here's the thing, if I'm reading this correctly (and I very well might not be) , this is actual, bonus movement. "As a bonus action, move (prof x5) feet (prof) times per day. If the jump spell (or boots of striding and springing) work with it, at level 1, that's 30ft of extra, non-reactable movement. Basically a bonus action dash, but it gets better with level.
Don't get me wrong, I'm actually the player in this scenario, I had made a rabbitfolk monk for a game in playing with boots of springing, I just want to know I'm reading this correctly and fairly. I'm also going to talk with my dm and see how he rules it, mind, I just want to be able to state a case (and accept what his final verdict is)
That is some of the situation I would evaluate before make sure of before I would allow it as DM.
In that case at 10th level that Haregon monk would have 50ft speed. Using dash as an action it would go trhough 100ft of movement. If it jumps has a 15ft (lets supose) it would't trepass that limit even if its jump distance where tripled by jump or the boots of striding and springing, so the 45 feet jumping would still within that 100ft. But now, after all that movement, it use its bonus action to rabbit hop and than leaps more 60ft ( +4 proficiency bonus 5 times than tripled). Thats a total of 160ft. in a single round of a 10th level monk and it beats a Solar (CR21) flying speed of 150ft (without a dash of course) that is the fastest creature in 5e that I can remember.
And the wierd comes when it reach 20th level. It would have 60ft movement + 60ft dash action + 90 ft rabbit hop tripled by jump spell (also any class would have that wierd 90ft jump that way). 210 ft. total thats crazy.
I think that is something to take in consideration.
Yup, this is all that I've been considering as well, though to reach that speed as a level 10 monk requires a full round to do so, sure you can go faster than a Solar... But that's all you're doing, while the Solar can still do stuff. Plus, Rabbit hop is, technically, a resource, having a daily limit equal to your proficiency. Mind, three times per day is honestly more then enough for most cases. Honestly, at level 10, I think that's when things should start just getting a bit wacky and out there... And nothing in more mystically martial arts then just ridiculous jumps, and if anyone could survive the fall most of the time, it's the monk. Also, just think of haste as well. 120+120+90=330ft.
Honestly, it's not even the Haregon monk that I'm worried about. It makes it REALLY hard for a DM to close on any ranged Haregon effectively. Haregon wizard harassed by a group of melee characters? 30-90ft dash/disengage combo. Rogues WISH they had that. HECK, on the topic of rogues, makes for some NASTY hit and run combos. Or a warrior just jumping through enemies with the mobile feat. Don't get me wrong, these all look SO COOL as I think of them in my head, though. THEN there's the topic of "do the boots of striding and springing stack with the jump spell, and if so, how?" THIS one is a lot more controversial. they are two different sources (Item and spell), so yes. They are of the same source (both use magic to increase your jump) so no. If your DM allows this, then the rabbit hop just gets real busted.
But, this is more along the lines of, does the Jump spell and Harengon Rabbit hop interact with each other. I could see arguments either way. A racial disengage/dash combo is, honestly, a bit much, so I honestly can't even be mad about any DM who would outright disallow it.
Now, here's a second question... Can you move, make a high jump, then use the Rabbit hop in mid air for a "double jump." My answer? No, you need footing on a stable surface to jump, that's how jumps work... But double jumps are so cool.
Yup, this is all that I've been considering as well, though to reach that speed as a level 10 monk requires a full round to do so, sure you can go faster than a Solar... But that's all you're doing, while the Solar can still do stuff. Plus, Rabbit hop is, technically, a resource, having a daily limit equal to your proficiency. Mind, three times per day is honestly more then enough for most cases. Honestly, at level 10, I think that's when things should start just getting a bit wacky and out there... And nothing in more mystically martial arts then just ridiculous jumps, and if anyone could survive the fall most of the time, it's the monk. Also, just think of haste as well. 120+120+90=330ft.
Honestly, it's not even the Haregon monk that I'm worried about. It makes it REALLY hard for a DM to close on any ranged Haregon effectively. Haregon wizard harassed by a group of melee characters? 30-90ft dash/disengage combo. Rogues WISH they had that. HECK, on the topic of rogues, makes for some NASTY hit and run combos. Or a warrior just jumping through enemies with the mobile feat. Don't get me wrong, these all look SO COOL as I think of them in my head, though. THEN there's the topic of "do the boots of striding and springing stack with the jump spell, and if so, how?" THIS one is a lot more controversial. they are two different sources (Item and spell), so yes. They are of the same source (both use magic to increase your jump) so no. If your DM allows this, then the rabbit hop just gets real busted.
But, this is more along the lines of, does the Jump spell and Harengon Rabbit hop interact with each other. I could see arguments either way. A racial disengage/dash combo is, honestly, a bit much, so I honestly can't even be mad about any DM who would outright disallow it.
Now, here's a second question... Can you move, make a high jump, then use the Rabbit hop in mid air for a "double jump." My answer? No, you need footing on a stable surface to jump, that's how jumps work... But double jumps are so cool.
Yep. I don't even try to mention the other classes combination because the monk was the exemple. But as those you mention, I see a lot of combinations that would make a DM goes nuts trying to set a threat that can counter that bouncing furrball or even make the Haragon shine a bit close to other members, which would break a little fun. I do see that it could be just a silly preocupation thou, when I use the exemple of the monk I can compare to move+dash+step of the wind:dash and would still have a non-sense move for 6 seconds.
My thinking goes close to what you already mention: the desingage/dash is already a lot and it still a racial feat (and it also have lucky footwork, what is dwarf's stonecunning close to that lol). So I before allow it I would compare it to the party composition so I don't make the harengon the only star of the show.
Now, about the second question, I wouldn't allow it either unless its situational when I have a narrative porpouse for physics do not work in the way as we know.
I`d say they stack but you`re still limited by how far you can move with each foot jumped using a foot of movement. This was confirmed by the Devs too.
I`d say they stack but you`re still limited by how far you can move with each foot jumped using a foot of movement. This was confirmed by the Devs too.
Would mind link that confirmation?
Well, some days behind Galvis made this post here on DDB talking about that race where he says (its right at the end of the post):
For characters who don't have a lot of uses for their bonus action, Rabbit Hop adds some great utility. A barbarian can use it to get into position to land some blows on enemies who might otherwise be just out of reach of their melee attacks.
That statemant makes me think that it would be possible for a Harengon to use the trait to jump beyond its movement speed (...otherwise be just out of reach). Would you say that I'm missreading it, or it may be some missundersood from Galvis? Or, would the trait increase the movement but limited to the actual movement speed plus the five times proficiency bonus granted by the trait?
I mean, as you are saying it seems to me that the jump does not overrides the general rule of jumping, and if you have a Harengon with 30ft. speed and +3 proficiency bonus would be able to benefit from its 15ft. jump only if it moves only half its movement before using this trait. In that case, the only thing the trait does is to alter your jump distance basis from STR to proficiency bonus and avoid opportunity attacks. Right?
The more i read about it, the more i'm inclined to think that Rabbit Hop isn't capped by movement speed since each foot you clear by jumping doesn't cost a foot of movement with this ability, it use a bonus action instead.
The more i read about it, the more i'm inclined to think that Rabbit Hop isn't capped by movement speed since each foot you clear by jumping doesn't cost a foot of movement with this ability, it use a bonus action instead.
Yeah, its a bit shady for me yet. I just whatch this opinion from dungeoneer's pack video (2:30 to 5:something) and now I'm more confused LOL
At the end, what I would say the best to rule it for me is: the rabbit hop works as a desingage+dash in a single bonus action and the distance is limited by the 5 times PB. So you can use the entire speed than rabbit hop for the limit distance of this trait (which scales to the max of 30ft.) but if you have the jump buffed by something like the jump spells, its distance can't trepass your actual speed (what make that combo useless for non-monks after they get +6 PB).
Basically it boils down to wether Rabbit Hop use your movement speed or not to jump. It appears not, just like as a bonus action an Orc's Aggressive feature let's it move up to its speed without using any.
Once again the "natural language" approach fails to capture RAI or even RAW for people....
FFS Please just add a sentence that says "This movement cannot exceed your total movement speed" or something. Why make us guess on this stuff all the time? Its an extra sentence its not going to effect complexity at all!
.....Ok rant over.
I would say that the INTENT is for it to be extra movement they can proc a few times per day outside of their normal movement but I have 0 evidence for that due to how poorly written it is.
Taken that the UA version did rely on movement speed to jump and that the printed version rely on a bonus action instead i think it's evidently intended. I believe it mention having a speed greater than 0 to avoid Harengon moving in this fashion when they couldn't otherwise move, exemple when grappled.
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So, I'm sure the question has been right and asked already, but I'm wondering, how does the rabbit hop ability interact, if at all, with the jump spell or magical jump modifiers? Before they were just rabbit folk, it was pretty obvious it didn't, since rabbit hop said "you hop 1d10 feet" or something, but now it reads
Rabbit hop: As a bonus action, you can jump a number of feet equal to five times your proficiency bonus, without provoking opportunity attacks. You can use this trait only if your speed is greater than 0. You can use it a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.
And jump spell: You touch a creature. The creature's jump distance is tripled until the spell ends
Rabbit hop specifies that you now jump, and jump spell increases your jump distance... now, in sure, as intended, they aren't... but nothing says, as written, that's the case... how would you rule it?
I can't see any reason why they wouldn't stack. Which suddenly makes jump a lot more fun
Active characters:
Askatu, hyperfocused vedalken freedom fighter in Wildspace (Zealot barb/Swashbuckler rogue/Battle Master fighter)
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
They wouldn't stack beocuse it don't rely on jumping speed or distance.
I mean, the jump as part of a movement is limited by your SRT points and your movement speed. You can't jump normaly more than the amount of feets your STR permits you and also it counts against your remaining movement speed. So, the jump spells would let you just to jump three times more than you should while using that kind of movement, right?
Now, Rabbit hop isn't relied on your movement speed. You can, for exemple use your entire movement on your turn, than use rabbit hop to go a bit longer than you should with your jump movement, since it does its not determinated by movement speed limit and it's not an actual movement for mechanical porpouse. right?
I'd allow it. Nothing in the Jump spell
or the Monk's Step of the Wind abilitymentions movement.Right, it's reasonable.
I think the matter of mentioning movement its becouse before that rabbit hop the only mention on jumping distance where on "special types of movement" (as I can remember). I mean, jump spell never mention movement but your jump distance where always limited on movement until that trait, right? When someone use jump spell you would have it to jump triple within this movement limitation or you would let it trepass that limit?
Anyway, maybe the intent on chose the word "jump" in the rabbit hop is to make it passable for those spell and feature.
Well, unfortunately, step of the wind is a bonus action, same as this ability. Here's the thing, if I'm reading this correctly (and I very well might not be) , this is actual, bonus movement. "As a bonus action, move (prof x5) feet (prof) times per day. If the jump spell (or boots of striding and springing) work with it, at level 1, that's 30ft of extra, non-reactable movement. Basically a bonus action dash, but it gets better with level.
Don't get me wrong, I'm actually the player in this scenario, I had made a rabbitfolk monk for a game in playing with boots of springing, I just want to know I'm reading this correctly and fairly. I'm also going to talk with my dm and see how he rules it, mind, I just want to be able to state a case (and accept what his final verdict is)
Oh yeah, forgot about the bonus action, was just thinking of things that affect jump distance.
I think you've got a fair case for combining the spell with the hop though.
That is some of the situation I would evaluate before make sure of before I would allow it as DM.
In that case at 10th level that Haregon monk would have 50ft speed. Using dash as an action it would go trhough 100ft of movement. If it jumps has a 15ft (lets supose) it would't trepass that limit even if its jump distance where tripled by jump or the boots of striding and springing, so the 45 feet jumping would still within that 100ft. But now, after all that movement, it use its bonus action to rabbit hop and than leaps more 60ft ( +4 proficiency bonus 5 times than tripled). Thats a total of 160ft. in a single round of a 10th level monk and it beats a Solar (CR21) flying speed of 150ft (without a dash of course) that is the fastest creature in 5e that I can remember.
And the wierd comes when it reach 20th level. It would have 60ft movement + 60ft dash action + 90 ft rabbit hop tripled by jump spell (also any class would have that wierd 90ft jump that way). 210 ft. total thats crazy.
I think that is something to take in consideration.
I do to. Also, it's just nice to have this question here for others wondering the same thing, if they look a little. The boots of striding and springing are a tougher case, since they actually mention being unable to move farther than your move speed, but the jump spell is a definite case (might make me choose the ring of jumping over the boots of springing as my starting uncommon magic item)
Yup, this is all that I've been considering as well, though to reach that speed as a level 10 monk requires a full round to do so, sure you can go faster than a Solar... But that's all you're doing, while the Solar can still do stuff. Plus, Rabbit hop is, technically, a resource, having a daily limit equal to your proficiency. Mind, three times per day is honestly more then enough for most cases. Honestly, at level 10, I think that's when things should start just getting a bit wacky and out there... And nothing in more mystically martial arts then just ridiculous jumps, and if anyone could survive the fall most of the time, it's the monk. Also, just think of haste as well. 120+120+90=330ft.
Honestly, it's not even the Haregon monk that I'm worried about. It makes it REALLY hard for a DM to close on any ranged Haregon effectively. Haregon wizard harassed by a group of melee characters? 30-90ft dash/disengage combo. Rogues WISH they had that. HECK, on the topic of rogues, makes for some NASTY hit and run combos. Or a warrior just jumping through enemies with the mobile feat. Don't get me wrong, these all look SO COOL as I think of them in my head, though. THEN there's the topic of "do the boots of striding and springing stack with the jump spell, and if so, how?" THIS one is a lot more controversial. they are two different sources (Item and spell), so yes. They are of the same source (both use magic to increase your jump) so no. If your DM allows this, then the rabbit hop just gets real busted.
But, this is more along the lines of, does the Jump spell and Harengon Rabbit hop interact with each other. I could see arguments either way. A racial disengage/dash combo is, honestly, a bit much, so I honestly can't even be mad about any DM who would outright disallow it.
Now, here's a second question... Can you move, make a high jump, then use the Rabbit hop in mid air for a "double jump." My answer? No, you need footing on a stable surface to jump, that's how jumps work... But double jumps are so cool.
Yep. I don't even try to mention the other classes combination because the monk was the exemple. But as those you mention, I see a lot of combinations that would make a DM goes nuts trying to set a threat that can counter that bouncing furrball or even make the Haragon shine a bit close to other members, which would break a little fun. I do see that it could be just a silly preocupation thou, when I use the exemple of the monk I can compare to move+dash+step of the wind:dash and would still have a non-sense move for 6 seconds.
My thinking goes close to what you already mention: the desingage/dash is already a lot and it still a racial feat (and it also have lucky footwork, what is dwarf's stonecunning close to that lol). So I before allow it I would compare it to the party composition so I don't make the harengon the only star of the show.
Now, about the second question, I wouldn't allow it either unless its situational when I have a narrative porpouse for physics do not work in the way as we know.
I`d say they stack
but you`re still limited by how far you can move with each foot jumped using a foot of movement. This was confirmed by the Devs too.Would mind link that confirmation?
Well, some days behind Galvis made this post here on DDB talking about that race where he says (its right at the end of the post):
For characters who don't have a lot of uses for their bonus action, Rabbit Hop adds some great utility. A barbarian can use it to get into position to land some blows on enemies who might otherwise be just out of reach of their melee attacks.
That statemant makes me think that it would be possible for a Harengon to use the trait to jump beyond its movement speed (...otherwise be just out of reach). Would you say that I'm missreading it, or it may be some missundersood from Galvis? Or, would the trait increase the movement but limited to the actual movement speed plus the five times proficiency bonus granted by the trait?
I mean, as you are saying it seems to me that the jump does not overrides the general rule of jumping, and if you have a Harengon with 30ft. speed and +3 proficiency bonus would be able to benefit from its 15ft. jump only if it moves only half its movement before using this trait. In that case, the only thing the trait does is to alter your jump distance basis from STR to proficiency bonus and avoid opportunity attacks. Right?
The more i read about it, the more i'm inclined to think that Rabbit Hop isn't capped by movement speed since each foot you clear by jumping doesn't cost a foot of movement with this ability, it use a bonus action instead.
So as a bonus action, a PC with a +6 proficiency bonus could jump up to 30 feet and under a Jump spell, up to 90 feet.
Yeah, its a bit shady for me yet. I just whatch this opinion from dungeoneer's pack video (2:30 to 5:something) and now I'm more confused LOL
At the end, what I would say the best to rule it for me is: the rabbit hop works as a desingage+dash in a single bonus action and the distance is limited by the 5 times PB. So you can use the entire speed than rabbit hop for the limit distance of this trait (which scales to the max of 30ft.) but if you have the jump buffed by something like the jump spells, its distance can't trepass your actual speed (what make that combo useless for non-monks after they get +6 PB).
Basically it boils down to wether Rabbit Hop use your movement speed or not to jump. It appears not, just like as a bonus action an Orc's Aggressive feature let's it move up to its speed without using any.
Once again the "natural language" approach fails to capture RAI or even RAW for people....
FFS Please just add a sentence that says "This movement cannot exceed your total movement speed" or something. Why make us guess on this stuff all the time? Its an extra sentence its not going to effect complexity at all!
.....Ok rant over.
I would say that the INTENT is for it to be extra movement they can proc a few times per day outside of their normal movement but I have 0 evidence for that due to how poorly written it is.
Taken that the UA version did rely on movement speed to jump and that the printed version rely on a bonus action instead i think it's evidently intended. I believe it mention having a speed greater than 0 to avoid Harengon moving in this fashion when they couldn't otherwise move, exemple when grappled.