Not being a big number cruncher, I like to rely on the table of the DM guide and XGtE for parcelling out magical treasures, so that my characters are appropriately equipped for their level (especially when creating a character of higher level for an adventure).
However, if I'm reading the tables in XGtE correctly, a party of adventurers playing from levels 1-5 *as a whole* should get ~11 Magic items:
6 common minor (i.e. potions of healing, lvl 1 scrolls)
2 uncommon minor (i.e. lvl 2 scrolls)
1 rare minor (higher lvl potion)
2 Uncommon Major (+1 weapon, Boots of Elven Kind)
Conversely, I totaled up all the treasure from Lost Mines of Phandelver, which should take charcters through this teir and came up with:
14 common minor
7 uncommon minor
2 very rare minor
6 Uncommon major
4 Rare major
Even assuming a party doesn't find all, or even half of the available treasure, this seems like more magic items than a party should have uncovered by lvl 10?
Am I misunderstanding how this treasure is meant to be parsed?
Am I misunderstanding how this treasure is meant to be parsed?
In a way, yes. The misunderstanding is that you are expecting their to be such a thing as "appropriately equipped for their level" that involves magical items, but 5th edition deliberately doesn't have such a thing - magic items are 100% optional, and 100% intended to be bonuses that put you ahead of the challenges you are likely to face.
So literally any number of magical items is the right number, so long as your group enjoys the results, whether it is zero, the way the treasure tables roll out on average, the way the adventures are stuffed full of them, or even more on top of that.
For creating characters at higher levels, you may want to use this table from the Dungeon Master's Guide, just to keep things simpler.
Besides, 5th edition balances magic items more with its Attunement rule than anything else. And potions rarely count :p
The only concern about magic items is that some encounters become much harder if the party doesn't have at least one source of "magic weapon" damage after a level. That's usually a +1 weapon or a monk or a caster with a relevant spell (like Magic Weapon).
IMO, it's up to you as the DM to determine what level of magic items are given to the party. If you want heroes to be known for their skills, attributes and abilities...less magic items. If you want everyone to be remembered by the items they have....then pile on the magic items.
Think of it like Thor: Ragnarok. Is he the God of Hammers?
My conern is mostly for balance. A lot of the material in DnD in mathematically balanced. So a CR 1 creature is a good challenge if a party of lvl 1 adventurers... but if each of those adventurers has a +1 weapon and +1 armor, just from a mechanical perspective, that seems like it would make that encounter significantly easier. Obviously, that's an extreme example, but a legendary or artifact level item can pretty serioursly alter the power level of a character, so I'm wondering if CRs take into account stuff like that?
Does a CR 8 creature assume that it'll be against a party with mundane equipment only? Or does it assume that a level 8 party will have X number of magical items? I would think, at higher levels especially, that the difference would be marked. A level 15 character with Starting Equipment only, and one with several moderate to high level magical items is going to be a very different being, and able to face very different challenges. As DM, I know that I can make that balance work, but I'm curious as to how I need to bend CRs when building an encounter to compensate?
CR are designed assuming the party does not have any magic items of any kind - that's how the game makes sure that, unless the DM decides to fiddle with stuff to make it otherwise, magic items are always a bonus (putting you above "normal") rather than a requirement (leaving you "behind" without them).
And you don't actually need to bend CR to balance things, as CR is not meant as a strict "this encounter is right for the party because they are X level and the monster is X CR" - it's just intended as a rough gauge of when the party probably shouldn't have that monster take any of the characters out of the fight, assuming their are four of them of a level equal to the CR that are well rested and equipped. Challenge is meant to be felt by going through a larger number of encounters in a day, not by each encounter being a finely tuned level of risk by itself.
I feel like I might be a bit confused...
Not being a big number cruncher, I like to rely on the table of the DM guide and XGtE for parcelling out magical treasures, so that my characters are appropriately equipped for their level (especially when creating a character of higher level for an adventure).
However, if I'm reading the tables in XGtE correctly, a party of adventurers playing from levels 1-5 *as a whole* should get ~11 Magic items:
Conversely, I totaled up all the treasure from Lost Mines of Phandelver, which should take charcters through this teir and came up with:
Even assuming a party doesn't find all, or even half of the available treasure, this seems like more magic items than a party should have uncovered by lvl 10?
Am I misunderstanding how this treasure is meant to be parsed?
Aaron is perfectly right.
Besides, 5th edition balances magic items more with its Attunement rule than anything else. And potions rarely count :p
The only concern about magic items is that some encounters become much harder if the party doesn't have at least one source of "magic weapon" damage after a level. That's usually a +1 weapon or a monk or a caster with a relevant spell (like Magic Weapon).
IMO, it's up to you as the DM to determine what level of magic items are given to the party. If you want heroes to be known for their skills, attributes and abilities...less magic items. If you want everyone to be remembered by the items they have....then pile on the magic items.
Think of it like Thor: Ragnarok. Is he the God of Hammers?
My conern is mostly for balance. A lot of the material in DnD in mathematically balanced. So a CR 1 creature is a good challenge if a party of lvl 1 adventurers... but if each of those adventurers has a +1 weapon and +1 armor, just from a mechanical perspective, that seems like it would make that encounter significantly easier. Obviously, that's an extreme example, but a legendary or artifact level item can pretty serioursly alter the power level of a character, so I'm wondering if CRs take into account stuff like that?
Does a CR 8 creature assume that it'll be against a party with mundane equipment only? Or does it assume that a level 8 party will have X number of magical items? I would think, at higher levels especially, that the difference would be marked. A level 15 character with Starting Equipment only, and one with several moderate to high level magical items is going to be a very different being, and able to face very different challenges. As DM, I know that I can make that balance work, but I'm curious as to how I need to bend CRs when building an encounter to compensate?
CR are designed assuming the party does not have any magic items of any kind - that's how the game makes sure that, unless the DM decides to fiddle with stuff to make it otherwise, magic items are always a bonus (putting you above "normal") rather than a requirement (leaving you "behind" without them).
And you don't actually need to bend CR to balance things, as CR is not meant as a strict "this encounter is right for the party because they are X level and the monster is X CR" - it's just intended as a rough gauge of when the party probably shouldn't have that monster take any of the characters out of the fight, assuming their are four of them of a level equal to the CR that are well rested and equipped. Challenge is meant to be felt by going through a larger number of encounters in a day, not by each encounter being a finely tuned level of risk by itself.