Most effects in the game happen in succession, following an order set by the rules or the DM. In rare cases, effects can happen at the same time, especially at the start or end of a creature's turn. If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or monster's turn, the person at the game table-whether player or DM-who controls that creature decides the order in which those things happen.For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player character's turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens first.
NOT the turn controller, the creature controler. Though I am glad they fixed the wording in the later rewrite of shifter. Though I do stand corrected on the barbarian. I had missed the "Resistance and vulnerability" section in the book earlier, I just tried to find a similar example and picked a bad one. The target of the abilities in this case is the defender who used their shifter ability on themselves and also blur/dodged themselves and is the target of the attack. Its also why you round up healing and round down damage though they also explicitly stated that in the damage section for clarity too.
The shifter ability doesnt grant disadvantage canceling the advantge, it removes advantage. The fact the target of the attack is trying to also apply disadvantage is irelavant as the target can choose either to cancel out advantage with disadvantage then do nothing to the attack because they arent attacking with advantage on a wildhunt shifter, or they can cancel advantage before the attack is rolled with wildhunt shift and then impose disadvantage to the attack with a dodge. Since both effects target the shifter being hit The shifter would presumably always pick the latter (but who knows, maybe we have a massochistic shifter, or one who wants a cool dramatic death? I'd' agree it was always a flat roll if it specificly said Wildhunt shift ability imposes disadvantage on attack rolls made within X feet or whatever as this would be covered by the 'multiple instances of advantage or disadvantage all cancel out without stacking'. It doesnt rather it specificly uses the wording to cancel advantage rather than saying specificly makes a flat roll. I think this part was more telling.
Most effects in the game happen in succession, following an order set by the rules or the DM. In rare cases, effects can happen at the same time, especially at the start or end of a creature's turn. If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or monster's turn, the person at the game table-whether player or DM-who controls that creature decides the order in which those things happen.For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player character's turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens first.
Added underlining and blue for emphasis. It's not who controls the creature. It's who controls the creature whose turn it is. If simultaneous effects applied (which it doesn't), it is most likely the attacker's turn and the attacker's controller would decide the order in which those things happen. This would generally make Wildhunt Shifter's ability next to useless.
At least to me, in my humble opinion, the Simultaneous Effects rule has a cleaner or better wording in the 2024 PHB:
If two or more things happen at the same time on a turn, the person at the game table—player or DM—whose turn it is decides the order in which those things happen. For example, if two effects occur at the start of a player character’s turn, the player decides which of the effects happens first.
Simultaneous Effects p77 XGE
Most effects in the game happen in succession, following an order set by the rules or the DM. In rare cases, effects can happen at the same time, especially at the start or end of a creature's turn. If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or monster's turn, the person at the game table-whether player or DM-who controls that creature decides the order in which those things happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player character's turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens first.
NOT the turn controller, the creature controler. Though I am glad they fixed the wording in the later rewrite of shifter. Though I do stand corrected on the barbarian. I had missed the "Resistance and vulnerability" section in the book earlier, I just tried to find a similar example and picked a bad one. The target of the abilities in this case is the defender who used their shifter ability on themselves and also blur/dodged themselves and is the target of the attack. Its also why you round up healing and round down damage though they also explicitly stated that in the damage section for clarity too.
The shifter ability doesnt grant disadvantage canceling the advantge, it removes advantage. The fact the target of the attack is trying to also apply disadvantage is irelavant as the target can choose either to cancel out advantage with disadvantage then do nothing to the attack because they arent attacking with advantage on a wildhunt shifter, or they can cancel advantage before the attack is rolled with wildhunt shift and then impose disadvantage to the attack with a dodge. Since both effects target the shifter being hit The shifter would presumably always pick the latter (but who knows, maybe we have a massochistic shifter, or one who wants a cool dramatic death? I'd' agree it was always a flat roll if it specificly said Wildhunt shift ability imposes disadvantage on attack rolls made within X feet or whatever as this would be covered by the 'multiple instances of advantage or disadvantage all cancel out without stacking'. It doesnt rather it specificly uses the wording to cancel advantage rather than saying specificly makes a flat roll. I think this part was more telling.
It does that in 2024. It was not clear in 2014. This is a 2014 thread.
2014: "no creature within 30 feet of you can make an attack roll with advantage against you unless you're incapacitated."
2024: "no creature within 30 feet of you can have Advantage on an attack roll against you unless you have the Incapacitated condition."
Simultaneous Effects never applied in 2014 or 2024 to this thread however:
Added underlining and blue for emphasis. It's not who controls the creature. It's who controls the creature whose turn it is. If simultaneous effects applied (which it doesn't), it is most likely the attacker's turn and the attacker's controller would decide the order in which those things happen. This would generally make Wildhunt Shifter's ability next to useless.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
At least to me, in my humble opinion, the Simultaneous Effects rule has a cleaner or better wording in the 2024 PHB:
Definitely. It's the same rule, but much cleaner.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.