I just introduced my Forge Cleric to my group and began to take additional crafting orders, after I upgrade a captured orc war wagons. Well when it came to making barding for the draft horses it occurred to us how crazy the Fabricate spell is.
Plate mail barding costs 6k go to buy from a NPC, according to the PHB.
If you craft it without using Fabricate it costs 3k and takes 60 workweeks, according to XGtE crafting rules.
Using Fabricate you can create plate mail barding for roughly 13gp and a few silver, using 130lb of iron for 1sp per pound and a few silver for the assorted leather straps. In 60 weeks, casting the spell once per day, you could have 60 pieces of barding worth 360,000gp and you only spent a little over 800gp in materials.
It's possibly worth noting that plate armor made from iron wouldn't be very good (as the spells says - the quality depends on the materials). Plate armor would normally be made from forged steel that has been correctly hardened as part of the process of making the armor. The fabricate spell should be able to handle this, but I don't know enough about steelworking to say what the additional ingredients should be.
Anyways, yes, magic can really mess up economies and it's not just the fabricate spell!
Consider the topic of several adventures - undead or other conjured creatures being used as labor on a farm/mine or construction crew.
Ah catering the perfect occupation for adventurers after the dark lord dies from choking on a leg of lamb.
I used iron because cost of steel per pound isn't in the PHB. However the D&D wiki does have coal listed at 2cp per pound. Even if we add a equal about of coal to add carbon to the iron that would just add 2.6gp per suit. That does bring in some possible RP and game elements to the game by allowing the caster to use Fabricate to make alloys.
Uh huh, I won't debate the economics of the situation, but any holy cleric who attempted such nonsense in a game I was DMing would receive a visit from a very angry Forge God pretty damn quick...
Uh huh, I won't debate the economics of the situation, but any holy cleric who attempted such nonsense in a game I was DMing would receive a visit from a very angry Forge God pretty damn quick...
Why? I'd think that cleric would be honoring their Forge god very well! :D
I would prefer to deal with this another way, if the player wants their character to go do that for 60 weeks that's great, they can roll another character and adventure with the party. There is also the issue of storing and selling all that armor that would come into play. It would take up a lot of space, and only so many people can afford to buy a horse, let alone armor for a horse, meaning the market for that would be extremely low, I mean outside of someone with an army filled with cavalry units (not very likely given the cost of feeding, stabling, etc for the horses) who needs that much barding?
I absolutely think the forge cleric has a place in doing this, any party with a forge cleric can and probably should be rocking the best metal worked equipment they can get as a benefit of keeping said cleric alive and making them money, but as far as that cleric going off and making millions of gold...well the game is called Dungeons and Dragons, not Downtime and Dragons =)
**Please read this post without any sarcastic tone, as it is not intended :)
Well if you are going multiple modules with the same characters I could see a downtime that long, but I mostly used the 60 workweeks because that's the amount of time a character would take to craft one suit of barding without assistance.
As far as how I'm using it, my character is carrying about 60lb of mixed raw materials, in a bag of holding, so they are always prepared for whatever needs crafting.
As the resident economist I can guarantee you it won't be that simple. First, if you construct a ridiculous amount of steel armor, you're going to be using a lot of raw materials, and thus pushing up their prices. On the other hand, selling that armor will push down the prices of the armor. At some point, every man, woman, child, and horse in the kingdom will have steel armor, and the marginal buyer will be willing to pay very little.
You also have to consider the effects of dumping steel armor into global markets. The local dwarf kingdom may take umbrage and slap some armor tariffs or import quotas on your production. You'll also probably face a backlash by the newly unemployed members of the local blacksmith's guild who'll pressure the mayor/duke/king to remove your armorer's license.
Also, at some point you'll see some action by the central bank of the Prime Material Plane...
Public Mod Note(MellieDM): Please note that this thread was last contributed to in March of 2018. Review our Site Rules & Guidelines for our rules on Thread Necromancy. Thank you!
Jesus, seriously I hate when people try to pile on reasons you would get [REDACTED] for simply making a profit. If a player used this trick to make a [REDACTED] ton of gold, I wouldn't [REDACTED] on him, I'd reward him. Why does the player doing something that benefits him suddenly mean everyone hates him?
The King takes note of your ingenious trick and begs you to become his court wizard to enhance his cavalry and affords you a title of nobility, including land and a reward of an artifact from his vaults. All he asks of you is an oath to not upset the delicate economy of his lands. He even insists you continue your trade, but to form your own guild and seek to promote economic growth any way you can to further the monarchy, maximize your employment of the people and lead about a new industrious revolution! Imagine the reward you could obtain if you could armor every horse in the land with hardly any effort?! He even informs you of plots by nearby nations to sabotage the current iron market and current relations with the dwarven halls of the iron mountains. You're tasked to travel to their hall as an Ambassador, with the Kings Sigil, to demonstrate your incredible miracle. Surely the dwarves would see you as a blessed avatar of their crafting god with such masterful craftsmanship!
Public Mod Note
(MellieDM):
Please note that this thread was last contributed to in March of 2018. Review our Site Rules & Guidelines for our rules on Thread Necromancy. Thank you!
As the resident economist I can guarantee you it won't be that simple. First, if you construct a ridiculous amount of steel armor, you're going to be using a lot of raw materials, and thus pushing up their prices. On the other hand, selling that armor will push down the prices of the armor. At some point, every man, woman, child, and horse in the kingdom will have steel armor, and the marginal buyer will be willing to pay very little.
You also have to consider the effects of dumping steel armor into global markets. The local dwarf kingdom may take umbrage and slap some armor tariffs or import quotas on your production. You'll also probably face a backlash by the newly unemployed members of the local blacksmith's guild who'll pressure the mayor/duke/king to remove your armorer's license.
Also, at some point you'll see some action by the central bank of the Prime Material Plane...
There is no dumping the prices up for steel, because a forge domain cleric could just create said steel out from a bit of money using channel divinity.
Uh huh, I won't debate the economics of the situation, but any holy cleric who attempted such nonsense in a game I was DMing would receive a visit from a very angry Forge God pretty damn quick...
Why? I'd think that cleric would be honoring their Forge god very well! :D
I don't know all the smith gods, but I do know that dwarves value work. Now you could say that being able to cast spells like that IS work, but that would land you a grudge all the same. For dwarves the creation process is equally important, therefore abusing magic to create items en masse would be considered bad form.
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I just introduced my Forge Cleric to my group and began to take additional crafting orders, after I upgrade a captured orc war wagons. Well when it came to making barding for the draft horses it occurred to us how crazy the Fabricate spell is.
Plate mail barding costs 6k go to buy from a NPC, according to the PHB.
If you craft it without using Fabricate it costs 3k and takes 60 workweeks, according to XGtE crafting rules.
Using Fabricate you can create plate mail barding for roughly 13gp and a few silver, using 130lb of iron for 1sp per pound and a few silver for the assorted leather straps. In 60 weeks, casting the spell once per day, you could have 60 pieces of barding worth 360,000gp and you only spent a little over 800gp in materials.
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D&D Beyond FoundersIt's possibly worth noting that plate armor made from iron wouldn't be very good (as the spells says - the quality depends on the materials). Plate armor would normally be made from forged steel that has been correctly hardened as part of the process of making the armor. The fabricate spell should be able to handle this, but I don't know enough about steelworking to say what the additional ingredients should be.
Anyways, yes, magic can really mess up economies and it's not just the fabricate spell!
Consider the topic of several adventures - undead or other conjured creatures being used as labor on a farm/mine or construction crew.
Wall of Stone & Move Earth can be used for construction purposed.
Raise Dead and other curing can certainly be sold.
Heroes' Feast would be pretty good for catering.
I'm sure there are many more!
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Ah catering the perfect occupation for adventurers after the dark lord dies from choking on a leg of lamb.
I used iron because cost of steel per pound isn't in the PHB. However the D&D wiki does have coal listed at 2cp per pound. Even if we add a equal about of coal to add carbon to the iron that would just add 2.6gp per suit. That does bring in some possible RP and game elements to the game by allowing the caster to use Fabricate to make alloys.
Oh it just occurred to me I messed up my math. I was counting 60 workdays not workweeks. So the real total is 2,520,000gp for about 5600gp
Uh huh, I won't debate the economics of the situation, but any holy cleric who attempted such nonsense in a game I was DMing would receive a visit from a very angry Forge God pretty damn quick...
I would prefer to deal with this another way, if the player wants their character to go do that for 60 weeks that's great, they can roll another character and adventure with the party. There is also the issue of storing and selling all that armor that would come into play. It would take up a lot of space, and only so many people can afford to buy a horse, let alone armor for a horse, meaning the market for that would be extremely low, I mean outside of someone with an army filled with cavalry units (not very likely given the cost of feeding, stabling, etc for the horses) who needs that much barding?
I absolutely think the forge cleric has a place in doing this, any party with a forge cleric can and probably should be rocking the best metal worked equipment they can get as a benefit of keeping said cleric alive and making them money, but as far as that cleric going off and making millions of gold...well the game is called Dungeons and Dragons, not Downtime and Dragons =)
**Please read this post without any sarcastic tone, as it is not intended :)
Well if you are going multiple modules with the same characters I could see a downtime that long, but I mostly used the 60 workweeks because that's the amount of time a character would take to craft one suit of barding without assistance.
As far as how I'm using it, my character is carrying about 60lb of mixed raw materials, in a bag of holding, so they are always prepared for whatever needs crafting.
As the resident economist I can guarantee you it won't be that simple. First, if you construct a ridiculous amount of steel armor, you're going to be using a lot of raw materials, and thus pushing up their prices. On the other hand, selling that armor will push down the prices of the armor. At some point, every man, woman, child, and horse in the kingdom will have steel armor, and the marginal buyer will be willing to pay very little.
You also have to consider the effects of dumping
steelarmor into global markets. The local dwarf kingdom may take umbrage and slap some armor tariffs or import quotas on your production. You'll also probably face a backlash by the newly unemployed members of the local blacksmith's guild who'll pressure the mayor/duke/king to remove your armorer's license.Also, at some point you'll see some action by the central bank of the Prime Material Plane...
Jesus, seriously I hate when people try to pile on reasons you would get [REDACTED] for simply making a profit. If a player used this trick to make a [REDACTED] ton of gold, I wouldn't [REDACTED] on him, I'd reward him. Why does the player doing something that benefits him suddenly mean everyone hates him?
The King takes note of your ingenious trick and begs you to become his court wizard to enhance his cavalry and affords you a title of nobility, including land and a reward of an artifact from his vaults. All he asks of you is an oath to not upset the delicate economy of his lands. He even insists you continue your trade, but to form your own guild and seek to promote economic growth any way you can to further the monarchy, maximize your employment of the people and lead about a new industrious revolution! Imagine the reward you could obtain if you could armor every horse in the land with hardly any effort?! He even informs you of plots by nearby nations to sabotage the current iron market and current relations with the dwarven halls of the iron mountains. You're tasked to travel to their hall as an Ambassador, with the Kings Sigil, to demonstrate your incredible miracle. Surely the dwarves would see you as a blessed avatar of their crafting god with such masterful craftsmanship!
This gets a lot worse when you use channel divinity to turn armor back into steel :P
You won't even need raw materials anymore for fabricate, because you're making your own
My DM sicked the mages guild as well as the smithing guild on me and threatened untold horrors if I didn't stop printing gold.
There is no dumping the prices up for steel, because a forge domain cleric could just create said steel out from a bit of money using channel divinity.
I don't know all the smith gods, but I do know that dwarves value work. Now you could say that being able to cast spells like that IS work, but that would land you a grudge all the same.
For dwarves the creation process is equally important, therefore abusing magic to create items en masse would be considered bad form.