Ranged attack also make the distinction between bow and crossbow
Ranged Attack: When you make a ranged attack, you fire a bow or a crossbow
That's a good find tbh, probably the closest we will come to a clear answer on this. It is also quite a bit sad IMO as it means that the only way to get a magic crossbow is to be a Artificer and take the repeating shot infusion (or homebrew a weapon). Everything in the description of the Dragonwing bow seems like it would fit just as well on a crossbow as on a bow so I guess I'll do that if I ever need to, just a different style of homebrewing a solution I guess.
It's not the only way, magic items (any weapons) can be crossbows so from Weapon +1-3, Corpse Slayer weapon, Hellfire Weapon, Ruidium Weapon, Vicious Weapon, Weapon of Certain Death, Weapon of Warning
DDB uses the same definition for arrows and crossbow bolts, even going so far as to talk about needing a free hand to load a one-handed weapon, of which there are none that fire arrows. But this brings us back to the original issue that SagaTympana brought up--does this definition actually exist in the books? Or is it just a DDB thing? Also, since DDB is a Wizards of the Coast product now, when do DDB descriptions start being official D&D descriptions?
They were penned by DDB and are not in any rulebook.
The problem is that magic items often specify type of weapon they in their descriptions, but weapons are not organized by type nor do they have description. All you have is a name, if we go with the logic that magic items enchanting any bows can be a crossbows because the name is part of it, then would Dancing Sword (any sword) exclude rapier because it doesn't include sword in it's name?
Weapons: Some magic weapons specify the type of weapon they are in their descriptions, such as a longsword or longbow. If a magic weapon doesn't specify its weapon type, you may choose the type or determine it randomly.
While a crossbow have small bow mounted on by definition, they aren't weapons handled and operated the same way at all and i don't think i've ever seen them being related weapons in any editions of D&D, while a rapier has always been a sword.
I know for sure in my campaign rapier are swords and crossbows aren't bows.
Dosent it say any bow in fizban or is it specifically a shortbow? Are there any official magic crossbows either than like a magical plus 1 or whatever?
Dosent it say any bow in fizban or is it specifically a shortbow? Are there any official magic crossbows either than like a magical plus 1 or whatever?
It says “any bow.” As you can see, there seems to be some disagreement about whether that applies to crossbows; it’s going to be up to your DM to decide. As for magic crossbows, there is the generic +1 weapon kind of thing, which can apply to crossbows. I can’t think of any specific magic crossbows off the top of my head, but there may be one out there.
I don't get the issue here. "Dragon Wing Bow" is just a title for a group of weapons where the target takes an extra 1d6 damage of the same type as the breath infused in the bow—acid, cold, fire, force, lightning, necrotic, poison, psychic, radiant, or thunder.
Dragon Wing Light Crossbow
Dragon Wing Shortbow
Dragon Wing Hand Crossbow
Dragon Wing Heavy Crossbow
Dragon Wing Longbow
Regardless of what a "bow" is, Wizards clearly intends for DMs to pick one of the five weapons listed.
Yea but that list doesn't exist in the book that introduces the item, it only appears in the DDB page for the item. So saying that "wizards clearly intends" anything based on it puts you on shaky ground. And weapon "groups" doesn't explicitly exist other than simple/martial (to determine proficiency) and melee/ranged (to determine ability modifier).
I would definitely allow for it to be a crossbow too, but I am aware that this likely would be considered homebrew.
Yea but that list doesn't exist in the book that introduces the item, it only appears in the DDB page for the item. So saying that "wizards clearly intends" anything based on it puts you on shaky ground. And weapon "groups" doesn't explicitly exist other than simple/martial (to determine proficiency) and melee/ranged (to determine ability modifier).
I would definitely allow for it to be a crossbow too, but I am aware that this likely would be considered homebrew.
Fair enough. But, DnDBeyond is Wizards, so if I click on the item in Fisban's, and I'm shown a list with bows and crossbows, then that's "Wizards clearly intends" to me. At the end of the day, whether or not the Dragon Wing Bow can be a crossbow is just silly. Say yes, and move on with life. There is no downside. The DM decides what kind of weapon the players find, so if he wants to give a Long Bow instead of a Heavy Crossbow, then that's that. End of story.
Yea but that list doesn't exist in the book that introduces the item, it only appears in the DDB page for the item. So saying that "wizards clearly intends" anything based on it puts you on shaky ground. And weapon "groups" doesn't explicitly exist other than simple/martial (to determine proficiency) and melee/ranged (to determine ability modifier).
I would definitely allow for it to be a crossbow too, but I am aware that this likely would be considered homebrew.
If a crossbow is homebrew so is shortbow and longbow.
There is no weapon called "bow". Thus we have to take the super tiny yet unremarkably reasonable logic jump and say oh it means the whole category of weapons called bows.
Types of bows in 5e:
Hand crossbow. Light crossbow. Heavy crossbow. Shortbow. Longbow.
Having trouble interpreting this remark. Are you arguing against a crossbow as a bow by saying that if it were, than you could also get a dragonwing bowtie, and that would bd ridiculous, or saying that having bow in the name makes it technically a bow, and a funny DM could give the characters a dragonwing rainbow?
Isn't this fundamentally a DM decision as to what types of magic items they want to put in their game?
Is a crossbow a type of bow is yes for some folks, no for others, the rules at best imply they might be different when they mention rules for ranged attacks with bows and crossbows. However, that could as easily be just for clarity since there is no separate rule defining what is included in the category of "bow" weapons (the comment also appears in a descriptive sentence - to quote the entire phrase - "When you make a ranged attack, you fire a bow or a crossbow, hurl a handaxe, or otherwise send projectiles to strike a foe at a distance." - since bows and crossbows have different names in the equipment section and fire different ammunition, it is hardly surprising that they would be mentioned separately in this context.)
Bows use arrows, crossbows use bolts. However, the dragon wing bow description is written in general terms:
"If you load no ammunition in the weapon, it produces its own, automatically creating one piece of magic ammunition when you pull back the string. The ammunition created by the bow vanishes the instant after it hits or misses a target."
If the intent was to restrict this to long bows and short bows then "ammunition" could have been unambiguously replaced by "arrows" since crossbows fire bolts. Using the generic term "ammunition" may imply that the intent was to have the ability available to any sort of bow - long bow, short bow, light crossbow, heavy crossbow or hand crossbow ... but not a gun :)
However, it is really pretty irrelevant since a DM can have a Dragon Wing crossbow in their game if they like - it doesn't break any "rule".
It's not the only way, magic items (any weapons) can be crossbows so from Weapon +1-3, Corpse Slayer weapon, Hellfire Weapon, Ruidium Weapon, Vicious Weapon, Weapon of Certain Death, Weapon of Warning
They were penned by DDB and are not in any rulebook.
Now wouldn't a Dragonwing Bowtie be cool? ☺
The problem is that magic items often specify type of weapon they in their descriptions, but weapons are not organized by type nor do they have description. All you have is a name, if we go with the logic that magic items enchanting any bows can be a crossbows because the name is part of it, then would Dancing Sword (any sword) exclude rapier because it doesn't include sword in it's name?
Do we really need a rule to tell us that a rapier is a sword?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
While a crossbow have small bow mounted on by definition, they aren't weapons handled and operated the same way at all and i don't think i've ever seen them being related weapons in any editions of D&D, while a rapier has always been a sword.
I know for sure in my campaign rapier are swords and crossbows aren't bows.
Dosent it say any bow in fizban or is it specifically a shortbow? Are there any official magic crossbows either than like a magical plus 1 or whatever?
It says “any bow.” As you can see, there seems to be some disagreement about whether that applies to crossbows; it’s going to be up to your DM to decide.
As for magic crossbows, there is the generic +1 weapon kind of thing, which can apply to crossbows. I can’t think of any specific magic crossbows off the top of my head, but there may be one out there.
Any "logic" someone tries to use to claim a crossbow isn't a bow applies to shortbow and longbow too.
They're all bows.
I got quotes!
You need to ask your DM. It can be a sword that launches arrows if he wants to allow it
DMG states that you can change the magic item's base weapon, IE: holy avenger flail. You can make a dragonwing flail
I don't get the issue here. "Dragon Wing Bow" is just a title for a group of weapons where the target takes an extra 1d6 damage of the same type as the breath infused in the bow—acid, cold, fire, force, lightning, necrotic, poison, psychic, radiant, or thunder.
Regardless of what a "bow" is, Wizards clearly intends for DMs to pick one of the five weapons listed.
Yea but that list doesn't exist in the book that introduces the item, it only appears in the DDB page for the item. So saying that "wizards clearly intends" anything based on it puts you on shaky ground.
And weapon "groups" doesn't explicitly exist other than simple/martial (to determine proficiency) and melee/ranged (to determine ability modifier).
I would definitely allow for it to be a crossbow too, but I am aware that this likely would be considered homebrew.
Fair enough. But, DnDBeyond is Wizards, so if I click on the item in Fisban's, and I'm shown a list with bows and crossbows, then that's "Wizards clearly intends" to me. At the end of the day, whether or not the Dragon Wing Bow can be a crossbow is just silly. Say yes, and move on with life. There is no downside. The DM decides what kind of weapon the players find, so if he wants to give a Long Bow instead of a Heavy Crossbow, then that's that. End of story.
D&D Beyond wasn't yet acquired by Wizards of the Coast when it was coded this way.
If a crossbow is homebrew so is shortbow and longbow.
There is no weapon called "bow". Thus we have to take the super tiny yet unremarkably reasonable logic jump and say oh it means the whole category of weapons called bows.
Types of bows in 5e:
Hand crossbow. Light crossbow. Heavy crossbow. Shortbow. Longbow.
I got quotes!
I would propose that a crossbow fits the description of "any bow" just like a rainbow and a bow tie would.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Having trouble interpreting this remark. Are you arguing against a crossbow as a bow by saying that if it were, than you could also get a dragonwing bowtie, and that would bd ridiculous, or saying that having bow in the name makes it technically a bow, and a funny DM could give the characters a dragonwing rainbow?
The distinction is made in the ruleset between bow and crossbow as described in ranged attacks :
"When you make a ranged attack, you fire a bow or a crossbow"
I was going to say we have been down this road before elsewhere, but then I realized it was in this very thread.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Isn't this fundamentally a DM decision as to what types of magic items they want to put in their game?
Is a crossbow a type of bow is yes for some folks, no for others, the rules at best imply they might be different when they mention rules for ranged attacks with bows and crossbows. However, that could as easily be just for clarity since there is no separate rule defining what is included in the category of "bow" weapons (the comment also appears in a descriptive sentence - to quote the entire phrase - "When you make a ranged attack, you fire a bow or a crossbow, hurl a handaxe, or otherwise send projectiles to strike a foe at a distance." - since bows and crossbows have different names in the equipment section and fire different ammunition, it is hardly surprising that they would be mentioned separately in this context.)
Bows use arrows, crossbows use bolts. However, the dragon wing bow description is written in general terms:
"If you load no ammunition in the weapon, it produces its own, automatically creating one piece of magic ammunition when you pull back the string. The ammunition created by the bow vanishes the instant after it hits or misses a target."
If the intent was to restrict this to long bows and short bows then "ammunition" could have been unambiguously replaced by "arrows" since crossbows fire bolts. Using the generic term "ammunition" may imply that the intent was to have the ability available to any sort of bow - long bow, short bow, light crossbow, heavy crossbow or hand crossbow ... but not a gun :)
However, it is really pretty irrelevant since a DM can have a Dragon Wing crossbow in their game if they like - it doesn't break any "rule".