Nothing in that link says you only use one set of senses at a time, and the find familiar spell says:
Additionally, as an action, you can see through your familiar's eyes and hear what it hears until the start of your next turn. gaining the benefits of any special senses that the familiar has.
It seems to suggest you can both see and hear... and then later it mentions senses (plural). Where did you get the idea it was one set of senses?
The argument is that you don't replace the whole paragraph, then you would not require an action anymore. Sage advice has a couple of references to these questions. In one he says, having the invocation doesn't grant immunity to blindness. Which doesn't answer the question but clarifies the intent... sortof.
Dang it Crawford, stop trying to ruin this interesting invocation.
And he means either the familiar's set of senses or the Warlock's set. When he said either set of senses.
That is why there has been so much errata published since they have been released. And there are also entire sites dedicated to answering rules questions... simply because they are not clear.
Amount of errata does not correlate to lack of clarity of rules - it is only a measure of how many errors put into print were found and later fixed.
And people asking questions about rules - even people misunderstanding rules - doesn't actually prove those rules to be written in a way that isn't already clear (or at least as clear as can be expected of anything written).
In order for your claims that the rules are unclear, and these pieces of information are proof, to be true it would have to be impossible that anyone reading the rules not misunderstand the style in which the rules are written (exception based casual language, and only doing what they say they do, not anything unmentioned), or have any kind of reading comprehension difficulty whether from reading too quickly to catch important details, holding onto baggage of prior game versions, lack of proficiency with the English language, or other reason.
RAW are not clear on that. If they were, what would we be debating?
RAW are clear on how to handle this invocation. Which is why what is being debated is a combination of 'Are the rules clear or aren't they?' and 'Does this exception apply as if it were replacing a sentence in a paragraph with its own text, or by casually explaining the way in which that paragraph of text is changed?'
The rule we're debating can be interpreted to cherry pick very specific parts of find familiar and replace them with voice of the chain master... or you can override all the parts of find familiar that deal with senses and replace them with the voice of the chain master rules for using senses.
RAW are not clear on that. If they were, what would we be debating?
The thing you're doing where you assume a previously-established rule no longer applies just because it wasn't repeated doesn't work and the Player's Handbook introduction tells you that's the wrong way to go about it.
This would be true if the invocation referred to the spell (as is likely intended, as supported by tweets from Crawford) but the invocation doesn't. It simply says, you may do this thing.
In either case the restriction of the effect ending at the end of your next turn is over ruled by the invocation stating it lasts "as long as your familiar is on the same plane of existence"
The rules for making a melee weapon attack apply to shadow blade because it refers to a melee weapon. But they do not apply to say Sword Burst. This is clear. It may imply that there are weapons, but it does not refer to them as melee weapons.
For the warlock invocation, that allows you to speak through your familiar, does your physical body need to say the words, or can you just tell your famialr to say those things without your actual mouth moving.
Nothing in that link says you only use one set of senses at a time, and the find familiar spell says:
Additionally, as an action, you can see through your familiar's eyes and hear what it hears until the start of your next turn. gaining the benefits of any special senses that the familiar has.
It seems to suggest you can both see and hear... and then later it mentions senses (plural). Where did you get the idea it was one set of senses?
How about from the very next sentence in the spell description? "During this time, your are deaf and blind with regards to your own senses".
It's not that hard. Find familiar let's you use one set of senses at a time, yours or your familiars, if you are within 100 ft. But SPECIFICALLY says you can't use both at the same time.
The invocation says you can use the familiars senses while on the same plane, and you can also speak through your familiar. It says NOTHING about using your own senses at the same time as your familiars senses.
Sage advice says the invocation enhances find familiar, which otherwise works as normal. You get extra range, you get speech. Those are spelled out. Nothing in the invocation says you get to use both sets of sense at once. Find familiar says you cant. So, you can't.
To the original poster: You don't have to speak out loud or move your lips to speak through your familiar, at least as far as the rule books go. Your DM has final say as with everything.
Actually Mael I was just looking over the Invocations again and found out that it does indeed work my way. (Trying to piggyback in the restrictions for Find Familiar and apply them to the Voice of the Chain Master Invocation was a good try, full credit for trying to say that because Voice of the Chain Master didn't say anything about being blind or deaf that in some way meant you were... but this is simply not so, and here's why.)
There is an Invocation in the PHB. called Gaze of Two Minds, the last sentence reads...
While perceiving through the other creature's senses, you benefit from any special senses possessed by that creature, and you are blinded and deafened to your own surroundings.
Now if Voice of the Chain Master intended for you to be blind and deaf while using your familiars senses, they would of said so like they do here, but they don't, so you're not. Game... Set... and Match. Thank you all for coming, I'll be here until Tuesday. Don't forget to tip your waitresses before you leave.
Gaze of Two Minds isn't affecting a spell that already carries restrictions. You could argue Voice of the Chain Master doesn't either, but the counter argument to that is very strong.
Now if Voice of the Chain Master intended for you to be blind and deaf while using your familiars senses, they would of said so like they do here, but they don't, so you're not.
You'd be right if it weren't for the fact that Voice of the Chain Master enhances Find Familiar, so all of Find Familiar's rules still apply and there's no need for the invocation to reiterate the rules of the spell.
Per Crawford's tweet, I see Voice of the Chain Master to work like this:
Telepathy range is extended from "100 feet" to "unlimited within the same plane"
While perceiving through your familiar’s senses (using the action provided by Find Familiar), you can also speak through your familiar in your own voice, even if your familiar is normally incapable of speech.
It just makes those two small changes. It doesn't redefine how the Find Familiar spell works.
...In either case the restriction of the effect ending at the end of your next turn is over ruled by the invocation stating it lasts "as long as your familiar is on the same plane of existence"...
The phrase "as long as" here is not referring to time or duration - it is just listing a condition that must be true for the ability to work. You could replace those three words with "but only if", or "on the condition that", or even just "when". The phrase which would imply duration is "for as long as", but the "for" is definitely missing from this sentence.
While I understand and even agree with you. The rules as written have a lot of room for interpretation, particularly in this instance. Which is the point I was trying to make.
Yeah this seems very clear to me. You replace "within 100' " with "as long as you are on the same plane of existence", no other part of the abilities granted by find familiar is modified in any way, and you gain the additional ability to speak through it with your own voice.
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Nothing in that link says you only use one set of senses at a time, and the find familiar spell says:
Additionally, as an action, you can see through your familiar's eyes and hear what it hears until the start of your next turn. gaining the benefits of any special senses that the familiar has.
It seems to suggest you can both see and hear... and then later it mentions senses (plural). Where did you get the idea it was one set of senses?
The argument is that you don't replace the whole paragraph, then you would not require an action anymore. Sage advice has a couple of references to these questions. In one he says, having the invocation doesn't grant immunity to blindness. Which doesn't answer the question but clarifies the intent... sortof.
Dang it Crawford, stop trying to ruin this interesting invocation.
And he means either the familiar's set of senses or the Warlock's set. When he said either set of senses.
Extended Signature
Amount of errata does not correlate to lack of clarity of rules - it is only a measure of how many errors put into print were found and later fixed.
And people asking questions about rules - even people misunderstanding rules - doesn't actually prove those rules to be written in a way that isn't already clear (or at least as clear as can be expected of anything written).
In order for your claims that the rules are unclear, and these pieces of information are proof, to be true it would have to be impossible that anyone reading the rules not misunderstand the style in which the rules are written (exception based casual language, and only doing what they say they do, not anything unmentioned), or have any kind of reading comprehension difficulty whether from reading too quickly to catch important details, holding onto baggage of prior game versions, lack of proficiency with the English language, or other reason.
RAW are clear on how to handle this invocation. Which is why what is being debated is a combination of 'Are the rules clear or aren't they?' and 'Does this exception apply as if it were replacing a sentence in a paragraph with its own text, or by casually explaining the way in which that paragraph of text is changed?'
No, the rules are clear. Exceptions explicitly contradict a more general rule. An omission isn't a contradiction. If the way you were reading it were correct, Voice of the Chain Master would remove the need to use an action, but it doesn't. Likewise, you still add your strength or dexterity modifier to Shadow Blade's damage because you always do that with weapon attacks and the spell doesn't tell you not to do so.
The thing you're doing where you assume a previously-established rule no longer applies just because it wasn't repeated doesn't work and the Player's Handbook introduction tells you that's the wrong way to go about it.
This would be true if the invocation referred to the spell (as is likely intended, as supported by tweets from Crawford) but the invocation doesn't. It simply says, you may do this thing.
In either case the restriction of the effect ending at the end of your next turn is over ruled by the invocation stating it lasts "as long as your familiar is on the same plane of existence"
The rules for making a melee weapon attack apply to shadow blade because it refers to a melee weapon. But they do not apply to say Sword Burst. This is clear. It may imply that there are weapons, but it does not refer to them as melee weapons.
Extended Signature
so when it says that you can speak telepathically with your familiar, this works even when its a mile out?
Yes, and that part, at least, we can all agree on.
Extended Signature
For the warlock invocation, that allows you to speak through your familiar, does your physical body need to say the words, or can you just tell your famialr to say those things without your actual mouth moving.
Your mind, your voice, your imp's lungs and tongue.
Extended Signature
I'm sorry, I'm confused on that answer. Do I need to physically speak in order for my voice to come from the imp?
No, the familiar does.
Extended Signature
Actually Mael I was just looking over the Invocations again and found out that it does indeed work my way. (Trying to piggyback in the restrictions for Find Familiar and apply them to the Voice of the Chain Master Invocation was a good try, full credit for trying to say that because Voice of the Chain Master didn't say anything about being blind or deaf that in some way meant you were... but this is simply not so, and here's why.)
There is an Invocation in the PHB. called Gaze of Two Minds, the last sentence reads...
While perceiving through the other creature's senses, you benefit from any special senses possessed by that creature, and you are blinded and deafened to your own surroundings.
Now if Voice of the Chain Master intended for you to be blind and deaf while using your familiars senses, they would of said so like they do here, but they don't, so you're not. Game... Set... and Match. Thank you all for coming, I'll be here until Tuesday. Don't forget to tip your waitresses before you leave.
Gaze of Two Minds isn't affecting a spell that already carries restrictions. You could argue Voice of the Chain Master doesn't either, but the counter argument to that is very strong.
Extended Signature
Of course Voice of the Chain Master doesn't mention Find Familiar. But now we've moved backwards 20 posts.
Extended Signature
Per Crawford's tweet, I see Voice of the Chain Master to work like this:
It just makes those two small changes. It doesn't redefine how the Find Familiar spell works.
While I understand and even agree with you. The rules as written have a lot of room for interpretation, particularly in this instance. Which is the point I was trying to make.
Extended Signature
Yeah this seems very clear to me. You replace "within 100' " with "as long as you are on the same plane of existence", no other part of the abilities granted by find familiar is modified in any way, and you gain the additional ability to speak through it with your own voice.