I think that we can dispense with the advice that I am free to homebrew my own solution. Please consider the advice noted. You and I are both experienced enough in this forum to understand clearly the purpose of homebrew and its general lack of relevance in the discussion of rules and game mechanics. At a certain point, it just comes across to my eyes as unnecessary at best and passive-aggressive at worst.
So let's talk about RAW. David42 demonstrated adequately that taking a short rest is not on the list of things that can end concentration, and I never claimed otherwise. I think that looking at it from the perspective of what breaks concentration only accounts for half of the interaction between the two features. I am actually coming at it from the other direction--what activities may a character engage in while gaining the benefit of a short rest.
"A short rest is a period of downtime, at least 1 hour long, during which a character does nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds."
Concentrating on a spell is also not on the list of what a character can do during a short rest. Because of this, in order to definitively say that a concentrating character is capable of taking a short rest, we would have to show that concentration is not more strenuous than those listed activities. Concentration, by its definition, is the application of undivided attention. We know that normal activity, such as moving and attacking, doesn’t interfere with concentration, but I would propose that both of those activities are more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, or tending to wounds, so that does not provide us with a comparable standard either.
Going back to my first post in this discussion, my point has always been that we cannot rely on RAW to tell us with certainty, since the short rest rule instructs the DM to weigh a character's myriad possible activities against an undefined standard of strenuousness. And I think the answer is that the game doesn't tell us just how strenuous concentration is, nor whether it exceeds the standard for strenuous activity that can be performed during a short rest. The result has to be a ruling rather than a rule we can point to.
And then I finished with my interpretation of this rule interaction, but that really isn't important to the objective discussion.
I don't think the argument is that taking a short rest breaks your concentration. I think the argument is that concentration makes you unable to rest properly.
If that was true why wouldn't that actually be stated?
That is why I posted my previous comment - the rules don't say that if you are concentrating then you can't rest.
However, the D&D game mechanic is called "concentration". Given the stated list of things that can interrupt the game mechanic called concentration and the allowed activities, it clearly does NOT mean the same thing as the English word "concentration". You can engage in normal activity, you can move, including making acrobatics or athletics checks, you can make attacks, striking with a weapon, focusing on a fight, dodging, grappling etc. If "Concentration" on a spell represented "an application of undivided attention" then it would not be possible to do all of the actions which the rules very explicitly state you can do while concentrating on a spell.
One of the comments I made earlier was that the Concentration game mechanic is often misunderstood by DMs because they compare it to the definition of "concentrating" on something which very clearly does not apply based on the rules.
If you remove the dictionary definition from the discussion because it is inappropriate and misleading, you are left with your second comment. "I would propose that both of those activities are more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, or tending to wounds" ... I agree, all of the effects that can break the game effect called "Concentration" are all more strenuous than the activities allowed during a short rest.
In addition, concentration allows a character to be involved in "normal activity" without interfering with concentration on a spell (not the dictionary definition of concentration). Normal activities would INCLUDE eating, drinking, reading or tending to wounds. Unless a DM decides that eating and drinking are NOT normal activities (which seems a bit of a stretch) then these would not preclude concentration. If these don't prevent concentration then concentration itself can't be any more strenuous than any of these activities.
As a result, it works both ways, a short rest won't prevent concentration on a spell and concentration on a spell won't prevent a short rest.
You're correct that this isn't explicitly stated because the rules don't say explicitly that concentrating is less strenuous than reading, eating or drinking. But, consider the additional meanings of "normal activity". Is a short or long rest a normal activity? Since a character can be expected to take one or more every day, I would say yes, resting is a normal activity so concentration is specifically allowed since normal activities are allowed.
Anyway, DMs can rule however they like - but I really don't see any need for a "ruling" in this case since rests, in my opinion, would be a normal activity ... and if you can concentrate during a rest then ... concentrating could not be prevented by resting ... which would, by definition, make concentrating less strenuous than the activities listed for a short rest.
I agree 100% with the above explanation. If you can do normal activity plus much more engaging activities like cast non concentration spells, grapple and do athletic checks, attack, dash, etc. then concentrating is really not a strenuous activity in itself.
Concentrating on a spell that you know and can cast in battle should be easier than reading a book or researching a new spell that you are trying to master, and way easier than tending a wound.
"A short rest is a period of downtime, at least 1 hour long, during which a character does nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds."
RAW doesn't say you are limited to only eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds.
RAW does say what canbreak concentration
"The following factors can break concentration:
Casting another spell that requires concentration. You lose concentration on a spell if you cast another spell that requires concentration. You can’t concentrate on two spells at once.
Taking damage. Whenever you take damage while you are concentrating on a spell, you must make a Constitution saving throw to maintain your concentration. The DC equals 10 or half the damage you take, whichever number is higher. If you take damage from multiple sources, such as an arrow and a dragon’s breath, you make a separate saving throw for each source of damage.
Being incapacitated or killed. You lose concentration on a spell if you are incapacitated or if you die.
The DM might also decide that certain environmental phenomena, such as a wave crashing over you while you’re on a storm-tossed ship, require you to succeed on a DC 10 Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration on a spell."
A short rest is not going to work if a wave crashes over you while you’re on a storm-tossed ship, but it is a DC 10 CON save for concentration.
I would allow concentration on a short rest as a DM, as a PC I would let it slide but speak to my DM out of game if they didn't allow it. I would not let it slow the game.
There is no rule that specifies that concentration is a strenuous activity. There is no rule that specifies that concentration is not a strenuous activity.
I would rule that concentration is a strenuous activity that falls under the category of "similar adventuring activity". Therefore, I would not allow concentration during a short rest or during a long rest. Other DMs would make the opposite ruling. Both rulings are correct. In terms of rules as written this is 100% a DMs call.
Since this thread got bumped, I'll say that I stand by my position from before, but I definitely don't feel passionate enough about it anymore to defend it further :)
Could you please explain why a Warlock would only have 2 spells slots until L11 and only 3 until L17 if there was not same way for them to easily recover or SAVE spell slots via this mechanic (maintain during short rest AND still regain slots).
Your ruling seems to be specifically nerfing a class feature (regain slots on short rest for a class with slots specifically limited). Without this trick, there is really no point whatsoever to limiting the slots of Warlocks. Better to be able to have a normal amount of spells lots regained after a long rest so that you are actually able to cast things. A level 11 wizard has 16 spell slots unless I added incorrectly and a Warlock only has 3. I guess you can house rule that they can't pull this trick off for a Hex cast with a level 2 slot (8 hour duration) and the Warlock can just enjoy casting Eldritch Blast all the time with no option to cast anything else...1 Hex and then 2 other spells at L11 and then we can pretend an otherwise healthy group will be willing to take all kinds of extra short rests throughout the campaign so the Warlock can regain 1 or 2 slots.
The concentration mechanic is intended to prevent powerful duration-based spells from being stacked (only 1 concentration slot per character), I don't think it is "concentration" like "intensely focusing every fiber of my being" on a task at hand. It seems to me that if a spellcaster can attack, run, cast other spells that potentially require major mental effort, plan attack and response actions/thoughts, then maintaining "concentration" is an automated subroutine in the brain like riding a bike or driving a car after years of experience. It requires virtually no effort to maintain. Obviously falling asleep on a bicycle or while driving a car is going to break my "concentration". Someone punching me in the the shoulder or in the side of the head *might* break my concentration, but it depends on how strong the punch was. I can eat and drink while driving because those are also automated subroutines in my brain (subroutines meaning they don't really require my consciousness even if I'm actively doing something complex like driving in heavy traffic)
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I think that we can dispense with the advice that I am free to homebrew my own solution. Please consider the advice noted. You and I are both experienced enough in this forum to understand clearly the purpose of homebrew and its general lack of relevance in the discussion of rules and game mechanics. At a certain point, it just comes across to my eyes as unnecessary at best and passive-aggressive at worst.
So let's talk about RAW. David42 demonstrated adequately that taking a short rest is not on the list of things that can end concentration, and I never claimed otherwise. I think that looking at it from the perspective of what breaks concentration only accounts for half of the interaction between the two features. I am actually coming at it from the other direction--what activities may a character engage in while gaining the benefit of a short rest.
Concentrating on a spell is also not on the list of what a character can do during a short rest. Because of this, in order to definitively say that a concentrating character is capable of taking a short rest, we would have to show that concentration is not more strenuous than those listed activities. Concentration, by its definition, is the application of undivided attention. We know that normal activity, such as moving and attacking, doesn’t interfere with concentration, but I would propose that both of those activities are more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, or tending to wounds, so that does not provide us with a comparable standard either.
Going back to my first post in this discussion, my point has always been that we cannot rely on RAW to tell us with certainty, since the short rest rule instructs the DM to weigh a character's myriad possible activities against an undefined standard of strenuousness. And I think the answer is that the game doesn't tell us just how strenuous concentration is, nor whether it exceeds the standard for strenuous activity that can be performed during a short rest. The result has to be a ruling rather than a rule we can point to.
And then I finished with my interpretation of this rule interaction, but that really isn't important to the objective discussion.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
That is why I posted my previous comment - the rules don't say that if you are concentrating then you can't rest.
The dictionary definition of concentration is something like " the ability to think carefully about something you are doing and nothing else"
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/concentration
However, the D&D game mechanic is called "concentration". Given the stated list of things that can interrupt the game mechanic called concentration and the allowed activities, it clearly does NOT mean the same thing as the English word "concentration". You can engage in normal activity, you can move, including making acrobatics or athletics checks, you can make attacks, striking with a weapon, focusing on a fight, dodging, grappling etc. If "Concentration" on a spell represented "an application of undivided attention" then it would not be possible to do all of the actions which the rules very explicitly state you can do while concentrating on a spell.
One of the comments I made earlier was that the Concentration game mechanic is often misunderstood by DMs because they compare it to the definition of "concentrating" on something which very clearly does not apply based on the rules.
If you remove the dictionary definition from the discussion because it is inappropriate and misleading, you are left with your second comment. "I would propose that both of those activities are more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, or tending to wounds" ... I agree, all of the effects that can break the game effect called "Concentration" are all more strenuous than the activities allowed during a short rest.
In addition, concentration allows a character to be involved in "normal activity" without interfering with concentration on a spell (not the dictionary definition of concentration). Normal activities would INCLUDE eating, drinking, reading or tending to wounds. Unless a DM decides that eating and drinking are NOT normal activities (which seems a bit of a stretch) then these would not preclude concentration. If these don't prevent concentration then concentration itself can't be any more strenuous than any of these activities.
As a result, it works both ways, a short rest won't prevent concentration on a spell and concentration on a spell won't prevent a short rest.
You're correct that this isn't explicitly stated because the rules don't say explicitly that concentrating is less strenuous than reading, eating or drinking. But, consider the additional meanings of "normal activity". Is a short or long rest a normal activity? Since a character can be expected to take one or more every day, I would say yes, resting is a normal activity so concentration is specifically allowed since normal activities are allowed.
Anyway, DMs can rule however they like - but I really don't see any need for a "ruling" in this case since rests, in my opinion, would be a normal activity ... and if you can concentrate during a rest then ... concentrating could not be prevented by resting ... which would, by definition, make concentrating less strenuous than the activities listed for a short rest.
I agree 100% with the above explanation. If you can do normal activity plus much more engaging activities like cast non concentration spells, grapple and do athletic checks, attack, dash, etc. then concentrating is really not a strenuous activity in itself.
Concentrating on a spell that you know and can cast in battle should be easier than reading a book or researching a new spell that you are trying to master, and way easier than tending a wound.
"A short rest is a period of downtime, at least 1 hour long, during which a character does nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds."
RAW doesn't say you are limited to only eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds.
RAW does say what can break concentration
"The following factors can break concentration:
The DM might also decide that certain environmental phenomena, such as a wave crashing over you while you’re on a storm-tossed ship, require you to succeed on a DC 10 Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration on a spell."
A short rest is not going to work if a wave crashes over you while you’re on a storm-tossed ship, but it is a DC 10 CON save for concentration.
I would allow concentration on a short rest as a DM, as a PC I would let it slide but speak to my DM out of game if they didn't allow it. I would not let it slow the game.
There is no rule that specifies that concentration is a strenuous activity. There is no rule that specifies that concentration is not a strenuous activity.
I would rule that concentration is a strenuous activity that falls under the category of "similar adventuring activity". Therefore, I would not allow concentration during a short rest or during a long rest. Other DMs would make the opposite ruling. Both rulings are correct. In terms of rules as written this is 100% a DMs call.
Since this thread got bumped, I'll say that I stand by my position from before, but I definitely don't feel passionate enough about it anymore to defend it further :)
"Not all those who wander are lost"
He is referring to the discussion in the replies not the OP. He meant to originally reply to what David42 said
Could you please explain why a Warlock would only have 2 spells slots until L11 and only 3 until L17 if there was not same way for them to easily recover or SAVE spell slots via this mechanic (maintain during short rest AND still regain slots).
Your ruling seems to be specifically nerfing a class feature (regain slots on short rest for a class with slots specifically limited). Without this trick, there is really no point whatsoever to limiting the slots of Warlocks. Better to be able to have a normal amount of spells lots regained after a long rest so that you are actually able to cast things. A level 11 wizard has 16 spell slots unless I added incorrectly and a Warlock only has 3. I guess you can house rule that they can't pull this trick off for a Hex cast with a level 2 slot (8 hour duration) and the Warlock can just enjoy casting Eldritch Blast all the time with no option to cast anything else...1 Hex and then 2 other spells at L11 and then we can pretend an otherwise healthy group will be willing to take all kinds of extra short rests throughout the campaign so the Warlock can regain 1 or 2 slots.
The concentration mechanic is intended to prevent powerful duration-based spells from being stacked (only 1 concentration slot per character), I don't think it is "concentration" like "intensely focusing every fiber of my being" on a task at hand. It seems to me that if a spellcaster can attack, run, cast other spells that potentially require major mental effort, plan attack and response actions/thoughts, then maintaining "concentration" is an automated subroutine in the brain like riding a bike or driving a car after years of experience. It requires virtually no effort to maintain. Obviously falling asleep on a bicycle or while driving a car is going to break my "concentration". Someone punching me in the the shoulder or in the side of the head *might* break my concentration, but it depends on how strong the punch was. I can eat and drink while driving because those are also automated subroutines in my brain (subroutines meaning they don't really require my consciousness even if I'm actively doing something complex like driving in heavy traffic)