What would be the weapon mastery property of the Eberron Double-bladed scimitar? I'm looking to update my campaign to the 2024 rules, but one of my players have a double-bladed scimitar that they are quite fond of, and has built around. What should I do in this regard?
I made the same post in the unearthed arcana section, as I love the fantasy of this weapon. I think you should just keep the weapon as is and decide on either topple(it's similar to a quarterstaff) ex or nick (treating it as a light weapon so you can do the BA as part of the action). Non of the other masteries make much sense on how you can use it.
Yeah, "nick" makes the most sense when patterned after the "regular" scimitar. You already lose the dual masteries from dual wielding, so this makes the most sense.
Nick would be useless as the Double Bladed Scimitar is not a light weapon. There is no bonus action unless something grants you a bonus action. Thus, there is no way to trigger Nick, because you need to attack with a light weapon and then use another light weapon to make the second attack which the Double bladed Scimitar does not follow.
I had the same question and found the same theories. Nick is for light weapons, and it would be OP (4 attacks at lvl 5). I think Sap or Vex is appropriate, nut that's just my useless opinion. I guess we need to wait for an answer.
I'm not giving you Nick for free. Probably not the heavy two handed masteries either, so that leaves Vex, Topple, and I like Sap for a whirling Dornish attacker.
I would like to put forth a case for Slow. It's a nimble weapon that deals slashing damage, so it makes sense that a wielder of a weapon like this would hit their target with multiple smaller but well-placed attacks to cripple their foes (think "hamstringing").
Vex or Sap I could see working. It's an unusual weapon, so I could see many combatants getting disoriented when fighting against one, and either of these masteries fit that theme.
I don't think Topple is very appropriate for a quick, slashing weapon. The other topple weapons like the Maul or Battleaxe are more ferocious in theme, and the Double-Bladed Scimitar is unlikely to be used to trip enemies like in the case of the Quarterstaff.
No weapon that deals slashing damage has the the Push mastery, so that one is not a good fit.
It's not a Light weapon, so Nick doesn't work at all.
I wouldn't give it a normal mastery. I'd just say that if you have the matching mastery then the bonus action attack for this weapon does 2d4 damage rather than 1d4.
I wouldn't give it a normal mastery. I'd just say that if you have the matching mastery then the bonus action attack for this weapon does 2d4 damage rather than 1d4.
I think it's a little overtuned to give the weapon an extra attack at full damage as a weapon mastery. No other weapon gets anything like that.
I wouldn't give it a normal mastery. I'd just say that if you have the matching mastery then the bonus action attack for this weapon does 2d4 damage rather than 1d4.
I think it's a little overtuned to give the weapon an extra attack at full damage as a weapon mastery. No other weapon gets anything like that.
It's not giving the weapon an extra attack - it's adding 2.5 damage to an attack that already exists, once per turn. The other masteries give things very like that: an extra attack for free, extra damage on a miss, the effect of a shove attack for free, advantage on attacks. All of those are very similar in power level to 2.5 damage added to the single bonus action attack, if not much stronger.
The double scimitar is already a messy weapon in that it provides its own bonus action attack, which can complicate many of the mastery properties. So I would keep it simple and align the mastery with the existing special nature of the weapon.
I wouldn't give it a normal mastery. I'd just say that if you have the matching mastery then the bonus action attack for this weapon does 2d4 damage rather than 1d4.
I think it's a little overtuned to give the weapon an extra attack at full damage as a weapon mastery. No other weapon gets anything like that.
It's not giving the weapon an extra attack - it's adding 2.5 damage to an attack that already exists, once per turn. The other masteries give things very like that: an extra attack for free, extra damage on a miss, the effect of a shove attack for free, advantage on attacks. All of those are very similar in power level to 2.5 damage added to the single bonus action attack, if not much stronger.
The double scimitar is already a messy weapon in that it provides its own bonus action attack, which can complicate many of the mastery properties. So I would keep it simple and align the mastery with the existing special nature of the weapon.
There's a case to be made to turn the extra attack into a mastery property.
It's not giving the weapon an extra attack - it's adding 2.5 damage to an attack that already exists, once per turn. The other masteries give things very like that: an extra attack for free, extra damage on a miss, the effect of a shove attack for free, advantage on attacks. All of those are very similar in power level to 2.5 damage added to the single bonus action attack, if not much stronger.
The double scimitar is already a messy weapon in that it provides its own bonus action attack, which can complicate many of the mastery properties. So I would keep it simple and align the mastery with the existing special nature of the weapon.
There's a case to be made to turn the extra attack into a mastery property.
Actually, that's what I am considering as well. I am actually thinking about removing the special rule, adding Cleave and Finesse. It simplifies the mechanics and is still a net gain.
There's a case to be made to turn the extra attack into a mastery property.
It's a weapon with a 2d4 damage die and a 1d4 die for the BA attack. If you are going to gate the BA attack behind a mastery then it starts looking quite a lot like not worth it at all for the weapon I'd say.
Actually, that's what I am considering as well. I am actually thinking about removing the special rule, adding Cleave and Finesse. It simplifies the mechanics and is still a net gain.
You want to take away the BA attack and then have the character pay the additional cost of a mastery to get back an attack that deals less damage (and is less likely to be available)? Sure it frees up its bonus action again but still.
Actually, that's what I am considering as well. I am actually thinking about removing the special rule, adding Cleave and Finesse. It simplifies the mechanics and is still a net gain.
You want to take away the BA attack and then have the character pay the additional cost of a mastery to get back an attack that deals less damage (and is less likely to be available)? Sure it frees up its bonus action again but still.
That is exactly my line of reasoning and concern about the change, but who exactly is getting negatively impacted? Pact of the Blade Warlocks? Is someone running around with a Double-bladed Scimitar as a backup weapon?
The only other factor is that it brings it in line with using standard mechanics without a special rule to make it work. It makes the update just an entry in a weapon table. I also added Finesse as a new option but that doesn't really help anyone who built around the current Double-bladed Scimitar and doesn't have Weapon Mastery from a class. Great Weapon Master can be used for Hew, but since it's not Heavy, the Heavy Weapon Master benefit doesn't apply.
There's a case to be made to turn the extra attack into a mastery property.
It's a weapon with a 2d4 damage die and a 1d4 die for the BA attack. If you are going to gate the BA attack behind a mastery then it starts looking quite a lot like not worth it at all for the weapon I'd say.
As it is, it's basically a quarterstaff with the best part of pole arm mastery built in. Without masteries, it's one of the best base weapons in the game. With masteries, it's more complex, but you certainly don't want to give it a mastery as well as the extra attack.
Gating the attack behind a mastery brings it down a notch, while also working at a chrome level (it's a weapon that requires a lot of skill to use effectively)
There's a case to be made to turn the extra attack into a mastery property.
It's a weapon with a 2d4 damage die and a 1d4 die for the BA attack. If you are going to gate the BA attack behind a mastery then it starts looking quite a lot like not worth it at all for the weapon I'd say.
As it is, it's basically a quarterstaff with the best part of pole arm mastery built in. Without masteries, it's one of the best base weapons in the game. With masteries, it's more complex, but you certainly don't want to give it a mastery as well as the extra attack.
Gating the attack behind a mastery brings it down a notch, while also working at a chrome level (it's a weapon that requires a lot of skill to use effectively)
It's a Quarterstaff that works with Great Weapon Fighting Style for 6-8 damage (average 6.5 damage per attack) and a bonus action 3-4 damage (average 3.25 per attack) follow up attack without any feat investment. Unfortunately, it doesn't have great synergy with anything else, like Polearm Master (no heavy or reach property) or Great Weapon Master (no heavy property). I feel like it falls behind as a dedicated weapon for a martial user. Given that it is intended as a traditional martial weapon for a region of elves, I feel something, or multiple things, need adjusting.
Hi all,
What would be the weapon mastery property of the Eberron Double-bladed scimitar? I'm looking to update my campaign to the 2024 rules, but one of my players have a double-bladed scimitar that they are quite fond of, and has built around. What should I do in this regard?
Kind regards.
I made the same post in the unearthed arcana section, as I love the fantasy of this weapon. I think you should just keep the weapon as is and decide on either topple(it's similar to a quarterstaff) ex or nick (treating it as a light weapon so you can do the BA as part of the action). Non of the other masteries make much sense on how you can use it.
Yeah, "nick" makes the most sense when patterned after the "regular" scimitar. You already lose the dual masteries from dual wielding, so this makes the most sense.
Graze or Cleave would be the most appropriate.
Nick would be useless as the Double Bladed Scimitar is not a light weapon. There is no bonus action unless something grants you a bonus action. Thus, there is no way to trigger Nick, because you need to attack with a light weapon and then use another light weapon to make the second attack which the Double bladed Scimitar does not follow.
I had the same question and found the same theories. Nick is for light weapons, and it would be OP (4 attacks at lvl 5). I think Sap or Vex is appropriate, nut that's just my useless opinion. I guess we need to wait for an answer.
Had a new thought. Graze. Gives the fantasy of whirling the blades so fast, that even misses connect, even minimally.
I'd say Vex, Graze or Cleave would be my choice of Mastery for a Double Scimitar.
I'm not giving you Nick for free. Probably not the heavy two handed masteries either, so that leaves Vex, Topple, and I like Sap for a whirling Dornish attacker.
I would like to put forth a case for Slow. It's a nimble weapon that deals slashing damage, so it makes sense that a wielder of a weapon like this would hit their target with multiple smaller but well-placed attacks to cripple their foes (think "hamstringing").
Vex or Sap I could see working. It's an unusual weapon, so I could see many combatants getting disoriented when fighting against one, and either of these masteries fit that theme.
Graze doesn't seem to fit as all the two weapons with it (Greatsword and Glaive) are both Two-Handed and Heavy.
I don't think Topple is very appropriate for a quick, slashing weapon. The other topple weapons like the Maul or Battleaxe are more ferocious in theme, and the Double-Bladed Scimitar is unlikely to be used to trip enemies like in the case of the Quarterstaff.
No weapon that deals slashing damage has the the Push mastery, so that one is not a good fit.
It's not a Light weapon, so Nick doesn't work at all.
So my read on the Double-Bladed Scimitar is that it should be updated to have either Slow, Sap, or Vex.
I wouldn't give it a normal mastery. I'd just say that if you have the matching mastery then the bonus action attack for this weapon does 2d4 damage rather than 1d4.
I think it's a little overtuned to give the weapon an extra attack at full damage as a weapon mastery. No other weapon gets anything like that.
It's not giving the weapon an extra attack - it's adding 2.5 damage to an attack that already exists, once per turn. The other masteries give things very like that: an extra attack for free, extra damage on a miss, the effect of a shove attack for free, advantage on attacks. All of those are very similar in power level to 2.5 damage added to the single bonus action attack, if not much stronger.
The double scimitar is already a messy weapon in that it provides its own bonus action attack, which can complicate many of the mastery properties. So I would keep it simple and align the mastery with the existing special nature of the weapon.
There's a case to be made to turn the extra attack into a mastery property.
Actually, that's what I am considering as well. I am actually thinking about removing the special rule, adding Cleave and Finesse. It simplifies the mechanics and is still a net gain.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
It's a weapon with a 2d4 damage die and a 1d4 die for the BA attack. If you are going to gate the BA attack behind a mastery then it starts looking quite a lot like not worth it at all for the weapon I'd say.
You want to take away the BA attack and then have the character pay the additional cost of a mastery to get back an attack that deals less damage (and is less likely to be available)? Sure it frees up its bonus action again but still.
That is exactly my line of reasoning and concern about the change, but who exactly is getting negatively impacted? Pact of the Blade Warlocks? Is someone running around with a Double-bladed Scimitar as a backup weapon?
The only other factor is that it brings it in line with using standard mechanics without a special rule to make it work. It makes the update just an entry in a weapon table. I also added Finesse as a new option but that doesn't really help anyone who built around the current Double-bladed Scimitar and doesn't have Weapon Mastery from a class. Great Weapon Master can be used for Hew, but since it's not Heavy, the Heavy Weapon Master benefit doesn't apply.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
As it is, it's basically a quarterstaff with the best part of pole arm mastery built in. Without masteries, it's one of the best base weapons in the game. With masteries, it's more complex, but you certainly don't want to give it a mastery as well as the extra attack.
Gating the attack behind a mastery brings it down a notch, while also working at a chrome level (it's a weapon that requires a lot of skill to use effectively)
It's a Quarterstaff that works with Great Weapon Fighting Style for 6-8 damage (average 6.5 damage per attack) and a bonus action 3-4 damage (average 3.25 per attack) follow up attack without any feat investment. Unfortunately, it doesn't have great synergy with anything else, like Polearm Master (no heavy or reach property) or Great Weapon Master (no heavy property). I feel like it falls behind as a dedicated weapon for a martial user. Given that it is intended as a traditional martial weapon for a region of elves, I feel something, or multiple things, need adjusting.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Thanks for your opinion; but your answer only leads me to another question. How do you then handle Tactical Master?
IMO EVERY weapon has been upgraded with a weapon mastery, why exclude just 1.