Lessons of the first ones allow you to pick an origin feat, it is also repeatable, but you must choose a different origin feat each time, but what about magic initiate? It's a repeatable origin feat as long as you pick different spell lists, can you pick it a second time and choose a different spell list?
I don’t see why not. If Magic Initiate allows you to take it multiple times then you should be able to with any feature that allows you to take a feat. Unless the feature specifically says otherwise
I don’t see why not. If Magic Initiate allows you to take it multiple times then you should be able to with any feature that allows you to take a feat. Unless the feature specifically says otherwise
The thing is... the wording of "lessons of the first ones" isn't clear enough, they say you have to pick a diferent origin feat, and now magic initiate isn't a diferent feat for each class, so i'm in doubt if it is possible in RAW.
Feats that are repeatable all specifically say so somewhere in the description- I think 2024 might have standardized to a "repeatable" Y/N box. If it doesn't say it's repeatable or it has the box with an N, then you can't take the feat more than once.
I don’t see why not. If Magic Initiate allows you to take it multiple times then you should be able to with any feature that allows you to take a feat. Unless the feature specifically says otherwise
The thing is... the wording of "lessons of the first ones" isn't clear enough, they say you have to pick a diferent origin feat, and now magic initiate isn't a diferent feat for each class, só i'm in doubt if it is possible in RAW.
RAW you cannot take the magic initiate feat twice (as an invocation). I don't really see a problem with allowing it myself.
I don’t see why not. If Magic Initiate allows you to take it multiple times then you should be able to with any feature that allows you to take a feat. Unless the feature specifically says otherwise
The thing is... the wording of "lessons of the first ones" isn't clear enough, they say you have to pick a diferent origin feat, and now magic initiate isn't a diferent feat for each class, só i'm in doubt if it is possible in RAW.
RAW you cannot take the magic initiate feat twice (as an invocation). I don't really see a problem with allowing it myself.
I really hope we get a sage advice on the RAI about this.
I don’t see why not. If Magic Initiate allows you to take it multiple times then you should be able to with any feature that allows you to take a feat. Unless the feature specifically says otherwise
The thing is... the wording of "lessons of the first ones" isn't clear enough, they say you have to pick a diferent origin feat, and now magic initiate isn't a diferent feat for each class, só i'm in doubt if it is possible in RAW.
RAW you cannot take the magic initiate feat twice (as an invocation). I don't really see a problem with allowing it myself.
I really hepe we get a sage advice on the RAI about this.
Yeah... I think RAI it should be allowed. I can't think of anyway it would be a problem.
Lessons of the First Ones. Gain an Origin Feat. Repeatable.
Magic Initiate. Now limited to the Cleric, Druid, and Wizard spell lists. The 1st-level spell can now be recast with spell slots, you can retrain the spell selections when you gain a level (but not the class selection), and you can take this multiple times.
Lessons of the First Ones. Gain an Origin Feat. Repeatable.
Magic Initiate. Now limited to the Cleric, Druid, and Wizard spell lists. The 1st-level spell can now be recast with spell slots, you can retrain the spell selections when you gain a level (but not the class selection), and you can take this multiple times.
The issue is that lessons of the First ones specifically state you can't make the same choice twice. (At least that is what the original poster mentioned). Thus, while individually both are repeatable, the Invocation limits you to a different choice each time.
Lessons of the First Ones. Gain an Origin Feat. Repeatable.
Magic Initiate. Now limited to the Cleric, Druid, and Wizard spell lists. The 1st-level spell can now be recast with spell slots, you can retrain the spell selections when you gain a level (but not the class selection), and you can take this multiple times.
The issue is that lessons of the First ones specifically state you can't make the same choice twice. (At least that is what the original poster mentioned). Thus, while individually both are repeatable, the Invocation limits you to a different choice each time.
Yep. So the question is really whether Magic Initiate (Wizard) and Magic Initiate (Cleric) are the same feat "Magic Initiate" or not. RAW, I would say they probably are but I could see a DM ruling that they aren't exactly the same feat.
Lessons of the First Ones. Gain an Origin Feat. Repeatable.
Magic Initiate. Now limited to the Cleric, Druid, and Wizard spell lists. The 1st-level spell can now be recast with spell slots, you can retrain the spell selections when you gain a level (but not the class selection), and you can take this multiple times.
The issue is that lessons of the First ones specifically state you can't make the same choice twice. (At least that is what the original poster mentioned). Thus, while individually both are repeatable, the Invocation limits you to a different choice each time.
Yep. So the question is really whether Magic Initiate (Wizard) and Magic Initiate (Cleric) are the same feat "Magic Initiate" or not. RAW, I would say they probably are but I could see a DM ruling that they aren't exactly the same feat.
They are the same feat in the book, but I think D&D Beyond tends to make them different feats
But when using the Lessons of the First Ones option, the character builder doesn't even list it again when choosing another invocation at a higher level, (ie, at lvl 2 picked magic initiate, but at lvl 5 when you can choose 2 more invocations it isn't even listed so that you could pick something like tough, skilled. You literally can get another Lessons of the First Ones to pick any other origin feats, you can only change your lvl 2 pick to a different origin feat.
Yep. So the question is really whether Magic Initiate (Wizard) and Magic Initiate (Cleric) are the same feat "Magic Initiate" or not.
The point of labeling a feat as "repeatable" is that you're taking the same feat more than once (granted, with different benefits, but still.) Seems pretty cut and dry to me:
you can gain Magic Initiate multiple times since it's a repeatable feat
you can gain Lessons of the First Ones multiple times since it's a repeatable invocation
you can gain Magic Initiate from Lessons of the First Ones even if you already have Magic Initiate because of #1, but
you can't gain Magic Initiate from Lessons of the First Ones more than once
Here's an even better question about Lessons of the First Ones: the PHB says that you can change your invocations when you gain a level. It also says that you cannot replace an invocation if it's a prerequisite for another invocation. What happens if you take Lessons of the First Ones, choose an Origin feat, and then swap out Lessons of the First Ones the next time you gain a level? Do you lose the Origin feat you chose?
Here's an even better question about Lessons of the First Ones: the PHB says that you can change your invocations when you gain a level. It also says that you cannot replace an invocation if it's a prerequisite for another invocation. What happens if you take Lessons of the First Ones, choose an Origin feat, and then swap out Lessons of the First Ones the next time you gain a level? Do you lose the Origin feat you chose?
Yes. "You gain X" doesn't make X separate from the thing giving it to you. If you lose one, you lose the other.
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Lessons of the first ones allow you to pick an origin feat, it is also repeatable, but you must choose a different origin feat each time, but what about magic initiate? It's a repeatable origin feat as long as you pick different spell lists, can you pick it a second time and choose a different spell list?
I don’t see why not. If Magic Initiate allows you to take it multiple times then you should be able to with any feature that allows you to take a feat. Unless the feature specifically says otherwise
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
The thing is... the wording of "lessons of the first ones" isn't clear enough, they say you have to pick a diferent origin feat, and now magic initiate isn't a diferent feat for each class, so i'm in doubt if it is possible in RAW.
Feats that are repeatable all specifically say so somewhere in the description- I think 2024 might have standardized to a "repeatable" Y/N box. If it doesn't say it's repeatable or it has the box with an N, then you can't take the feat more than once.
RAW you cannot take the magic initiate feat twice (as an invocation). I don't really see a problem with allowing it myself.
I really hope we get a sage advice on the RAI about this.
Yeah... I think RAI it should be allowed. I can't think of anyway it would be a problem.
According to this page 2024 DnD 5e Transition Guide and Change Log, both Magic Initiate and Lessons of the First Ones have the tag "Repeatable" and the following info:
The issue is that lessons of the First ones specifically state you can't make the same choice twice. (At least that is what the original poster mentioned). Thus, while individually both are repeatable, the Invocation limits you to a different choice each time.
Yep. So the question is really whether Magic Initiate (Wizard) and Magic Initiate (Cleric) are the same feat "Magic Initiate" or not. RAW, I would say they probably are but I could see a DM ruling that they aren't exactly the same feat.
They are the same feat in the book, but I think D&D Beyond tends to make them different feats
But when using the Lessons of the First Ones option, the character builder doesn't even list it again when choosing another invocation at a higher level, (ie, at lvl 2 picked magic initiate, but at lvl 5 when you can choose 2 more invocations it isn't even listed so that you could pick something like tough, skilled. You literally can get another Lessons of the First Ones to pick any other origin feats, you can only change your lvl 2 pick to a different origin feat.
The point of labeling a feat as "repeatable" is that you're taking the same feat more than once (granted, with different benefits, but still.) Seems pretty cut and dry to me:
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For some reason or another, it doesn’t even let me pick it more than once.
Here's an even better question about Lessons of the First Ones: the PHB says that you can change your invocations when you gain a level. It also says that you cannot replace an invocation if it's a prerequisite for another invocation. What happens if you take Lessons of the First Ones, choose an Origin feat, and then swap out Lessons of the First Ones the next time you gain a level? Do you lose the Origin feat you chose?
Yes. "You gain X" doesn't make X separate from the thing giving it to you. If you lose one, you lose the other.