True Strike and Weapon Masteries

I just want to make sure I am reading this right.  Most of the Weapon Masteries say "If you hit with this weapon "X" happens.  Does that mean that you get the benefits of the Mastery if you use True Strike as long as you have access to the mastery?

Totally. Its a weapon attack, so it uses the weapon's properties even if the cantrip lets you attack with a different modifier. Just like mixing using shilleighlay with the weapon masteries of a club or staff. 

Quote from Kronzypantz >>

Totally. Its a weapon attack, so it uses the weapon's properties even if the cantrip lets you attack with a different modifier. Just like mixing using shilleighlay with the weapon masteries of a club or staff. 

 Ok, thanks

but this doesn't happen with the nick property, or does it?

Correct. The Light weapon property requires the Attack action, and casting a spell with a casting time of 1 action is done with the Magic action, so there's no way to make use of the Light or Nick properties when casting True Strike.

Quote from Chinaskee >>

but this doesn't happen with the nick property, or does it?

 It doesn't work with the light property and therefore doesn't work with Nick or anything else that utilizes the attack action as you have to use a magic action instead of an attack action with true strike. 

Quote from InquisitiveCoder >>

Correct. The Light weapon property requires the Attack action, and casting a spell with a casting time of 1 action is done with the Magic action, so there's no way to make use of the Light or Nick properties when casting True Strike.

 Unless you're an eldritch knight with war magic (or a 2014 bladesinger).

Good catch, I forgot they changed War Magic.

Well i hope they rework booming blade and green flame blade then hahaha

Quote from Pantagruel666 >>

Quote from InquisitiveCoder >>

Correct. The Light weapon property requires the Attack action, and casting a spell with a casting time of 1 action is done with the Magic action, so there's no way to make use of the Light or Nick properties when casting True Strike.

 Unless you're an eldritch knight with war magic (or a 2014 bladesinger).

Additionally College of Valor Bard (2024), has the ability to switch one of it's attacks with a cantrip, in the same method as a Bladesinger.

And while I think it (the haste spell) is a weak/sub-optimum choice, taking the attack action with haste should also trigger it but then you're in a rule conflict for the nick property. As haste limits itself to one attack but nick moves the extra attack of the light property to the attack action.

Quote from R3sistance >>

taking the attack action with haste should also trigger it but then you're in a rule conflict for the nick property. As haste limits itself to one attack but nick moves the extra attack of the light property to the attack action.

 I see the conflict, but I'd rule Nick triumphs, as the Light property generally triggers off a hasted attack, so it's inconsistent that the specific case of light plus nick does not.

Edit: I'd also rule things like Cleave work. There's a general principle here, but I can't quite articulate it at the moment.

Edit the second: I think the principle is "Haste modifies the base Attack action; because these are triggers due to the attack taking place, they are outside its scope."

Quote from jl8e >>

Quote from R3sistance >>

taking the attack action with haste should also trigger it but then you're in a rule conflict for the nick property. As haste limits itself to one attack but nick moves the extra attack of the light property to the attack action.

 I see the conflict, but I'd rule Nick triumphs, as the Light property generally triggers off a hasted attack, so it's inconsistent that the specific case of light plus nick does not.

Edit: I'd also rule things like Cleave work. There's a general principle here, but I can't quite articulate it at the moment.

Edit the second: I think the principle is "Haste modifies the base Attack action; because these are triggers due to the attack taking place, they are outside its scope."

I'm not so sure about that.  It seems to me that the phrase "(one attack only)" for the Haste Attack action either fully restricts how many attacks can be made "as part of" that Attack action to one, or it sort of does nothing and even something like the standard Extra Attack feature of a Fighter can bypass it just based on how everything is worded.

If we assume that the wording is good enough to actually restrict the number of attacks to one, then we cannot use the Nick mastery property to make an attack during that Attack action since that mastery property states that you "can make it as part of the Attack action", which is disallowed for the Haste Attack Action.

But keep in mind that the word "can" means that it's optional -- so you can still take this attack as a Bonus Action if desired.

Yeah, the restriction from Haste kinda has to take precedence over everything else to work properly.

I do think allowing Nick is a perfectly sensible thing to do considering the main purpose of that restriction is preventing Extra Attack and other features that would kick in per action and not per turn though. Taking away Nick just because the player needed to use their main action for Magic or Dodge or whatever is harsh.

Yeah, I think it's clear that "attack (one attack only)" means what it says -- no nick, no cleave. You can, however, choose to ignore the nick property and make your extra attack as as bonus action.

Quote from Pantagruel666 >>

Yeah, I think it's clear that "attack (one attack only)" means what it says -- no nick, no cleave. You can, however, choose to ignore the nick property and make your extra attack as as bonus action.

Cleave would work just fine, its attack is made outside of the action that triggers it (strangely enough).

Isn't that they specified 'one attack only' in contrast with the extra attack feature that states "You can attack twice instead of once whenever you take the Attack action on your turn"? 

Perhaps they didn't 'update' Haste's description as an oversight, now that Nick weapon mastery is a thing.

it matters little anyways because Nick's description states "You can make this extra attack only once per turn," so I feel like the only scenario where this becomes an issue is when you mean to spend Nick with the haste's Attack Action because you are going for a different action (e.g. Magic Action)

Quote from Isidoro_Ficarazzi >>

Isn't that they specified 'one attack only' in contrast with the extra attack feature that states "You can attack twice instead of once whenever you take the Attack action on your turn"? 

Perhaps they didn't 'update' Haste's description as an oversight, now that Nick weapon mastery is a thing.

it matters little anyways because Nick's description states "You can make this extra attack only once per turn," so I feel like the only scenario where this becomes an issue is when you mean to spend Nick with the haste's Attack Action because you are going for a different action (e.g. Magic Action)

It is unlikely to be an oversight. However, it is a scenario we don't have much guidance on. Nick and Haste are both specific rules overriding the Attack Action and we don't have good guidance on how to resolve those conflicts. If we use the simultaneous effects rule, then the player is going to choose to have Nick override Haste's restriction (which I personally think is the correct approach regardless).

for what counts, I agree with you. Nick feels like a specific rule that trumps the "generic" one attack only... but until we get said guidance, these are just personal perspectives :|

Quote from Lia_Black >>

I just want to make sure I am reading this right.  Most of the Weapon Masteries say "If you hit with this weapon "X" happens.  Does that mean that you get the benefits of the Mastery if you use True Strike as long as you have access to the mastery?

 You can also use Action Surge or Haste with true strike if you dipped into fighter as well 

Quote from Cyrene66219 >>

Quote from Lia_Black >>

I just want to make sure I am reading this right.  Most of the Weapon Masteries say "If you hit with this weapon "X" happens.  Does that mean that you get the benefits of the Mastery if you use True Strike as long as you have access to the mastery?

 You can also use Action Surge or Haste with true strike if you dipped into fighter as well 

 Maybe I'm not getting something, but Haste and Action Surge don't allow taking the Magic action, so you can't cast True Strike, right?