When you take "one of the following actions"? An Action (Main/Bonus/Reaction) is different from an action (Dash/Disengage/Hide). Conflating these words is an oversight of the designers. The glossary defines the qualities of the actions. The Cunning Action ability defines when they can be taken.
> When you take a Bonus Action or Reaction to attack, you aren't taking Attack action unless noted otherwise.
Do you have an official source or SAC link that says this exactly? I'd like to read more. The provided link does not state that, this is an inference, an interpretation.
Various class features, spells, and other abilities let you take an additional action on your turn called a Bonus Action. The Cunning Action feature, for example, allows a Rogue to take a Bonus Action. You can take a Bonus Action only when a special ability, a spell, or another feature of the game states that you can do something as a Bonus Action. You otherwise don’t have a Bonus Action to take.
Emphasis added.
Reactions are less explicit, but it is almost the same. Everyone has access to the Opportunity Attack Reaction and the Reaction from the Ready Action.
Action lists the standard actions available to all characters. Anything in that list is not available as a Bonus Action or a Reaction unless a feature says it is. It is all in the Actions section of Playing the Game.
> You can't equip or unequip a weapon before or after an attack as a Bonus Action.
That is an interpretation of the Attack "action", but not clear at all or spelled out, RAW. I think it's a misinterpretation. I laid out a case for a different interpretation that I think is more accurate and more supported by the text, as I will expand on here.
> Bonus Action or Reaction are special actions, not the main action
Yes, they are not the Main Action. They are events during a turn in which one can perform an "action" (Attack, Disengage, Hide), if qualified.
> you're mixing different ressources here which aren't interchangeable. See this Sage Advice ruling for example;
I have not mixed them. That particular SAC does discuss my point. I never suggested swapping "Action events", ie the Main Action or Bonus Action. Some spells are qualified to the Bonus Action phase of a turn. That's a quality of the spell, not the Magic action, which can be performed during either the Main Action, Bonus Action, or Reaction (with war caster).
The mixing is done by several of you folk, who are conflating an Action with an action, understandably because the PHB poorly chose to give them a similar name. But it uses them differently, cases them differently, and defines them differently. It uses "Action" when it should call it "Main Action", and uses "action" to refer to the available tasks that can be performed. Rarely it uses "action" at the beginning of a sentence or in a header, which capitalizes it, but it doesn't mean Main Action based on the context.
Disengage is an action. It is neither the Main Action of the turn, nor the Bonus Action, but it can be performed during either event, qualified. The same rules apply to the action, regardless of when it is taken. So, the same rules of the Attack action apply regardless of when taken. That rule specifically says you can equip/unequip during "this action" - that is, the Attack "action" currently being performed, regardless of which "Action" event it's occurring on (Main/Bonus/Reaction).
Light, Extra Attack and 17 instances in the PHB specifically say When you take "the Attack action on your turn". Clearly implying that one can take the Attack action not on your turn, meaning on a Reaction (opportunity attack).
Attack doesn't say "the attack action on your turn". Why not? It could have. The PHB has it 17 times! What's one more? It also doesn't specifically exclude Bonus Actions, when it could. Answer: Because Attack does not exclude Bonus Actions or Reactions. All of the qualities of the Attack action apply, regardless of when it is performed. Exactly the same as the Disengage action, and all other actions.
Attack [Action]
When you take the Attack action,...
Action should be called Main Action. Here it clearly differentiates between the "Action" (Main Action) - the whole section, and the one "action" you can take from any of the "actions" in the list.
Action
On your turn, you can take one action. Choose which action to take from those below or from the special actions provided by your features. See also “Playing the Game” (“Actions”). These actions are defined elsewhere in this glossary:
Try considering that "Action" and "action" are two different things for a moment. Then look through the book with these eyes and see how often "Action" and "action" are used differently from each other.
So far, no one in this thread has provided a clear, direct quote from SAC, PHB, or errata that says that the Attack action is limited to the Main Action, whereas I provided 17 quotes showing it is not. Nor that equipping could not be done on a Bonus/Reaction Attack action, whereas I've made a clear logic case: if the Disengage rules work on a Bonus, the Attack rules do as well.
Does anyone have a clear, sourced rebuttal, that doesn't rely on the conflation of "Action" and "action"?
I don't see contradiction, if you don't conflate Action and action. Thrown - drawing is redundant with Attack and could be removed. Ammunition - drawing is a necessary, relevant, additional rule since ammunition that isn't granted by Attack.
Character77006 Can you get the crossbow feat before level 4 with 2024 rules?
No, sorry, I corrected it to just "level 4". Thanks.
I think you missed my point. Nothing you wrote contradicts what I wrote. I didn't suggest you can always take a Bonus Action, or use all actions during a Bonus Action. Each spell, or action has qualifications. My point is that Actions and actions are different. If you're qualified to take them, you can do so at different times.
[...] Try considering that "Action" and "action" are two different things for a moment. Then look through the book with these eyes and see how often "Action" and "action" are used differently from each other. [...]
In the 2024 PHB, "an action" appears 19 times, not counting Chapter 3: Character Classes, Chapter 5: Feats, Chapter 7: Spells, or the Rules Glossary. The relevant instances are listed below (emphasis mine). Reading the book in this context, it's clear to me that the book uses "an action" or directly a named/main Action to distinguish them from a Bonus Action or a Reaction.
(p. 15) Actions. When you do something other than moving or communicating, you typically take an action. The Action table lists the game's main actions, which are defined in more detail in the rules glossary.
(p. 15) Ready. Prepare to take an action in response to a trigger you define.
(p. 20) Breaking Objects. As an action, you can automatically break or otherwise destroy a fragile, nonmagical object, such as a glass container or a piece of paper. [...]
(p. 23) Interacting with Things. You can interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or action. For example, you could open a door during your move as you stride toward a foe.
If you want to interact with a second object, you need to take the Utilize action. Some magic items and other special objects always require an action to use, as stated in their descriptions.
(p. 23) Doing Nothing on Your Turn . You can forgo moving, taking an action, or doing anything at all on your turn. If you can't decide what to do, consider taking the defensive Dodge action or the Ready action to delay acting.
(p. 25) Breaking Up Your Move. You can break up your move, using some of its movement before and after any action, Bonus Action, or Reaction you take on the same turn. For example, if you have a Speed of 30 feet, you could go 10 feet, take an action, and then go 20 feet.
(p. 25) Dropping Prone. On your turn, you can give yourself the Prone condition without using an action or any of your Speed, but you can't do so if your Speed is 0.
(p. 28) Knocking Out a Creature. [...] The condition ends early if the creature regains any Hit Points or if someone takes an action to administer first aid to it, making a successful DC 10 Wisdom (Medicine) check.
(p. 241) Loading. You can fire only one piece of ammunition from a Loading weapon when you use an action, a Bonus Action, or a Reaction to fire it, regardless of the number of attacks you can normally make.
(p. 224) Chain (5 GP)
[...] Bursting the Chain requires a successful DC 20 Strength (Athletics) check as an action.
(p. 226) Manacles (2 GP)
[...] Bursting them requires a successful DC 25 Strength (Athletics) check as an action.
(p. 227) Net (1 GP)
[...] To escape, the target or a creature within 5 feet of it must take an action to make a DC 10 Strength (Athletics) check [...]
(p. 228) Rope (1 GP)
[...] Escaping the Rope requires the creature to make a successful DC 15 Dexterity (Acrobatics) check as an action.
If you include the chapters Character Classes, Feats, and the Rules Glossary, it's even clearer that "an action" is used differently from a Bonus Action or a Reaction.
Some examples from Chapter 3: Character Classes:
Agile Strikes. When you expend a use of your Bardic Inspiration as part of an action, a Bonus Action, or a Reaction, you can make one Unarmed Strike as part of that action, Bonus Action, or Reaction.
Level 17: Quivering Palm. [...] The vibrations are harmless unless you take an action to end them. Alternatively, when you take the Attack action on your turn, you can forgo one of the attacks to end the vibrations. [...]
Level 9: Abjure Foes. [...] While Frightened in this way, a target can do only one of the following on its turns: move, take an action, or take a Bonus Action.
Swift Spells. Whenever you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action, you can cast it using a Bonus Action instead.
Daze (Cost: 2d6). The target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw, or on its next turn, it can do only one of the following: move or take an action or a Bonus Action.
One example from Chapter 5: Feats:
Merge with Shadows. [...] The condition ends on you immediately after you take an action, a Bonus Action, or a Reaction.
And some examples from the Rules Glossary:
Knocking Out a Creature. The creature remains Unconscious until it regains any Hit Points or until someone uses an action to administer first aid to it, which requires a successful DC 10 Wisdom (Medicine) check.
Magic [Action]. When you take the Magic action, you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action or use a feature or magic item that requires a Magic action to be activated. [...]
Utilize [Action]. [...] When an object requires an action for its use, you take the Utilize action.
Even some spell descriptions explicitly say Bonus Action when it's needed, instead of assuming that "an action" also means a Bonus Action or a Reaction. Here are a few examples::
- Command ("Halt. On its turn, the target doesn’t move and takes no action or Bonus Action.")
- Confusion ("that target can’t take Bonus Actions or Reactions")
- Conjure Woodland Beings ("you can take the Disengage action as a Bonus Action for the spell’s duration")
- Counterspell ("the action, Bonus Action, or Reaction used to cast it is wasted")
I think you missed my point. Nothing you wrote contradicts what I wrote. I didn't suggest you can always take a Bonus Action, or use all actions during a Bonus Action. Each spell, or action has qualifications. My point is that Actions and actions are different. If you're qualified to take them, you can do so at different times.
Your turn consists of one Action and movement and nothing else unless something allows it. A Bonus Action is not an Action and the options under Actioncannot be performed as a Bonus Action, or Reactionunless a feature says it can (See a Rogue's Cunning action). The Attack can only be performed as an Action on your turn and there is no feature in official WotC material that allows you to take the Attack as a Bonus Action or Reaction. Multiple features let you make one or more Attack Rolls as a Bonus Action or Reaction, but not the full Attack Action.
> You can't equip or unequip a weapon before or after an attack as a Bonus Action.
That is an interpretation of the Attack "action", but not clear at all or spelled out, RAW. I think it's a misinterpretation. I laid out a case for a different interpretation that I think is more accurate and more supported by the text, as I will expand on here.
Various class features, spells, and other abilities let you take an additional action on your turn called a Bonus Action. The Cunning Action feature, for example, allows a Rogue to take a Bonus Action. You can take a Bonus Action only when a special ability, a spell, or another feature of the game states that you can do something as a Bonus Action. You otherwise don’t have a Bonus Action to take.
A level 1 Gnome Barbarian wielding a Greataxe can activate or extends their rage as a Bonus Action but has no other options for their Bonus Action. They can never make an attack as a Bonus Action because that race, with that weapon, and that class at that level has no features that states that you can make an attack as a Bonus Action.
Your quick thinking and agility allow you to move and act quickly. On your turn, you can take one of the following actions as a Bonus Action: Dash, Disengage, or Hide.
If you are not a level 2 Rogue or have another feature that lets you take the Dash, Disengage, or Hide actions, you can never take those actions as a Bonus Action and must use your one Action to do it instead. If A level 1 Gnome Barbarian wants to Disengage, they must use their Action to do so.
> you're mixing different ressources here which aren't interchangeable. See this Sage Advice ruling for example;
I have not mixed them. That particular SAC does discuss my point. I never suggested swapping "Action events", ie the Main Action or Bonus Action. Some spells are qualified to the Bonus Action phase of a turn. That's a quality of the spell, not the Magic action, which can be performed during either the Main Action, Bonus Action, or Reaction (with war caster).
You are mistaken.
You take the Magic Action to cast a spell with a casting time of 1 action or longer.
Light, Extra Attack and 17 instances in the PHB specifically say When you take "the Attack action on your turn". Clearly implying that one can take the Attack action not on your turn, meaning on a Reaction (opportunity attack).
You make one weapon attack (usually) during Opportunity Attacks, but it is not the Attack Action. If you take the Ready Action during your turn, you can specify a trigger during which you take the Attack Action. Something must say you can use an Action as a Bonus Action or Reaction before you can do so. If it does not explicitly say so, you cannot.
Back to the point at hand, you get one free object interaction per turn and during the Attack Action, you can either equip one weapon when you make an attack and it can be before or after the attack. This is a property of the Attack Action and cannot be performed during a Bonus Action. It could be done outside of the Attack Action using your one free object interaction during your turn.
An important point to remember when determining how these rules work is that the term "action" is often used in the context of defining a certain limited resource that can be expended at appropriate (defined) times and then is replenished at certain other defined times. This is colloquially referred to as the "action economy".
As a starting point, nobody can do anything ever.
Then, as a rule of thumb, the written rules tell us what you can do, not necessarily what you can't do.
As a default, there is a general rule which all creatures have access to which allows you to take one action on your turn:
On your turn, you can move a distance up to your Speed and take one action.
So, this is the rule which establishes the action economy resource that you have access to -- it defines how many of these you get, when and how often they are replenished and when and how it can be used. Some creatures might have access to additional, more specific rules which modify this default action economy. Action Surge, for example, might allow you to take more than one action on your turn. And so on.
Note that this rule does not allow you to use any of your action economy actions when it is not your turn.
So, when you make an Opportunity Attack against a retreating enemy on that enemy's turn, you are not taking any action at all -- you do not have access to being able to use any action economy actions during that time. That resource is unavailable. Instead, there is a specific rule regarding Opportunity Attacks which declares that you can make an attack (NOT an Attack action, but just an actual attack) when certain prerequisites are met. So, taking an Attack action is one way to be able to make an attack, but there are many other rules which allow you to make an attack which does not involve taking an Attack action. If you want to actually take an Attack action, you must expend an action economy action resource in order to do so, and you can only do this at times that a rule or feature allows you to do so.
In terms of action economy management, the rules are clear that Actions, Bonus Actions and Reactions are not interchangeable. The above general rule allows you to take any action you want at the appropriate time. There is no such corresponding general rule for taking Bonus Actions or Reactions. You can take at most one Bonus Action on your turn, but what you can do with the Bonus Action is not open ended. Instead, you must have access to a feature which allows you to take a Bonus Action, and that feature will dictate exactly what you can do with it:
You can take a Bonus Action only when a special ability, a spell, or another feature of the game states that you can do something as a Bonus Action. You otherwise don’t have a Bonus Action to take.
In addition, none of these things can be nested within each other:
One Thing at a Time
The game uses actions to govern how much you can do at one time. You can take only one action at a time.
. . .
Various class features, spells, and other abilities let you take an additional action on your turn called a Bonus Action.
. . .
Anything that deprives you of your ability to take actions also prevents you from taking a Bonus Action.
In order to take an action within a Bonus Action, the text for the Bonus Action must explicitly declare that you can do so in order to create a Specific vs General Exception to the above general rules.
Crucially, it's important to realize that when a Bonus Action says that you can make an attack, that is NOT the same thing as saying that you can take the Attack action. So, for example, the Light property says: "When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn." . . . the bit that says "make one extra attack" is just declaring that you can make an attack -- it is not saying that you can take the Attack action (an action economy action resource expenditure). This sort of distinction comes up all over the place in the rules so it's important to avoid such misinterpretations.
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Playing The Game:
Emphasis added.
Reactions are less explicit, but it is almost the same. Everyone has access to the Opportunity Attack Reaction and the Reaction from the Ready Action.
Action lists the standard actions available to all characters. Anything in that list is not available as a Bonus Action or a Reaction unless a feature says it is. It is all in the Actions section of Playing the Game.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
> You can't equip or unequip a weapon before or after an attack as a Bonus Action.
That is an interpretation of the Attack "action", but not clear at all or spelled out, RAW. I think it's a misinterpretation. I laid out a case for a different interpretation that I think is more accurate and more supported by the text, as I will expand on here.
> Bonus Action or Reaction are special actions, not the main action
Yes, they are not the Main Action. They are events during a turn in which one can perform an "action" (Attack, Disengage, Hide), if qualified.
> you're mixing different ressources here which aren't interchangeable. See this Sage Advice ruling for example;
I have not mixed them. That particular SAC does discuss my point. I never suggested swapping "Action events", ie the Main Action or Bonus Action. Some spells are qualified to the Bonus Action phase of a turn. That's a quality of the spell, not the Magic action, which can be performed during either the Main Action, Bonus Action, or Reaction (with war caster).
The mixing is done by several of you folk, who are conflating an Action with an action, understandably because the PHB poorly chose to give them a similar name. But it uses them differently, cases them differently, and defines them differently. It uses "Action" when it should call it "Main Action", and uses "action" to refer to the available tasks that can be performed. Rarely it uses "action" at the beginning of a sentence or in a header, which capitalizes it, but it doesn't mean Main Action based on the context.
Disengage is an action. It is neither the Main Action of the turn, nor the Bonus Action, but it can be performed during either event, qualified. The same rules apply to the action, regardless of when it is taken. So, the same rules of the Attack action apply regardless of when taken. That rule specifically says you can equip/unequip during "this action" - that is, the Attack "action" currently being performed, regardless of which "Action" event it's occurring on (Main/Bonus/Reaction).
Light, Extra Attack and 17 instances in the PHB specifically say When you take "the Attack action on your turn". Clearly implying that one can take the Attack action not on your turn, meaning on a Reaction (opportunity attack).
Attack doesn't say "the attack action on your turn". Why not? It could have. The PHB has it 17 times! What's one more? It also doesn't specifically exclude Bonus Actions, when it could. Answer: Because Attack does not exclude Bonus Actions or Reactions. All of the qualities of the Attack action apply, regardless of when it is performed. Exactly the same as the Disengage action, and all other actions.
Action should be called Main Action. Here it clearly differentiates between the "Action" (Main Action) - the whole section, and the one "action" you can take from any of the "actions" in the list.
Try considering that "Action" and "action" are two different things for a moment. Then look through the book with these eyes and see how often "Action" and "action" are used differently from each other.
So far, no one in this thread has provided a clear, direct quote from SAC, PHB, or errata that says that the Attack action is limited to the Main Action, whereas I provided 17 quotes showing it is not. Nor that equipping could not be done on a Bonus/Reaction Attack action, whereas I've made a clear logic case: if the Disengage rules work on a Bonus, the Attack rules do as well.
Does anyone have a clear, sourced rebuttal, that doesn't rely on the conflation of "Action" and "action"?
------------
TarodNet
I don't see contradiction, if you don't conflate Action and action. Thrown - drawing is redundant with Attack and could be removed. Ammunition - drawing is a necessary, relevant, additional rule since ammunition that isn't granted by Attack.
Character77006 Can you get the crossbow feat before level 4 with 2024 rules?
No, sorry, I corrected it to just "level 4". Thanks.
SmiteMakesRight_3_5 Re: Bonus Action
I think you missed my point. Nothing you wrote contradicts what I wrote. I didn't suggest you can always take a Bonus Action, or use all actions during a Bonus Action. Each spell, or action has qualifications. My point is that Actions and actions are different. If you're qualified to take them, you can do so at different times.
In the 2024 PHB, "an action" appears 19 times, not counting Chapter 3: Character Classes, Chapter 5: Feats, Chapter 7: Spells, or the Rules Glossary. The relevant instances are listed below (emphasis mine). Reading the book in this context, it's clear to me that the book uses "an action" or directly a named/main Action to distinguish them from a Bonus Action or a Reaction.
If you include the chapters Character Classes, Feats, and the Rules Glossary, it's even clearer that "an action" is used differently from a Bonus Action or a Reaction.
Some examples from Chapter 3: Character Classes:
One example from Chapter 5: Feats:
And some examples from the Rules Glossary:
Even some spell descriptions explicitly say Bonus Action when it's needed, instead of assuming that "an action" also means a Bonus Action or a Reaction. Here are a few examples::
- Command ("Halt. On its turn, the target doesn’t move and takes no action or Bonus Action.")
- Confusion ("that target can’t take Bonus Actions or Reactions")
- Conjure Woodland Beings ("you can take the Disengage action as a Bonus Action for the spell’s duration")
- Counterspell ("the action, Bonus Action, or Reaction used to cast it is wasted")
Your turn consists of one Action and movement and nothing else unless something allows it. A Bonus Action is not an Action and the options under Action cannot be performed as a Bonus Action, or Reaction unless a feature says it can (See a Rogue's Cunning action). The Attack can only be performed as an Action on your turn and there is no feature in official WotC material that allows you to take the Attack as a Bonus Action or Reaction. Multiple features let you make one or more Attack Rolls as a Bonus Action or Reaction, but not the full Attack Action.
It is part of the Attack Action and you cannot take an Attack Action as a Bonus Action. Only activities that say "As a Bonus Action" can be taken as a Bonus Action. By default, you have zero options for a Bonus Action.
A level 1 Gnome Barbarian wielding a Greataxe can activate or extends their rage as a Bonus Action but has no other options for their Bonus Action. They can never make an attack as a Bonus Action because that race, with that weapon, and that class at that level has no features that states that you can make an attack as a Bonus Action.
This is incorrect.
At level 2, a Rogue gets Cunning Action
If you are not a level 2 Rogue or have another feature that lets you take the Dash, Disengage, or Hide actions, you can never take those actions as a Bonus Action and must use your one Action to do it instead. If A level 1 Gnome Barbarian wants to Disengage, they must use their Action to do so.
You are mistaken.
You make one weapon attack (usually) during Opportunity Attacks, but it is not the Attack Action. If you take the Ready Action during your turn, you can specify a trigger during which you take the Attack Action. Something must say you can use an Action as a Bonus Action or Reaction before you can do so. If it does not explicitly say so, you cannot.
Back to the point at hand, you get one free object interaction per turn and during the Attack Action, you can either equip one weapon when you make an attack and it can be before or after the attack. This is a property of the Attack Action and cannot be performed during a Bonus Action. It could be done outside of the Attack Action using your one free object interaction during your turn.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
TinmanJuggernaut,
An important point to remember when determining how these rules work is that the term "action" is often used in the context of defining a certain limited resource that can be expended at appropriate (defined) times and then is replenished at certain other defined times. This is colloquially referred to as the "action economy".
As a starting point, nobody can do anything ever.
Then, as a rule of thumb, the written rules tell us what you can do, not necessarily what you can't do.
As a default, there is a general rule which all creatures have access to which allows you to take one action on your turn:
So, this is the rule which establishes the action economy resource that you have access to -- it defines how many of these you get, when and how often they are replenished and when and how it can be used. Some creatures might have access to additional, more specific rules which modify this default action economy. Action Surge, for example, might allow you to take more than one action on your turn. And so on.
Note that this rule does not allow you to use any of your action economy actions when it is not your turn.
So, when you make an Opportunity Attack against a retreating enemy on that enemy's turn, you are not taking any action at all -- you do not have access to being able to use any action economy actions during that time. That resource is unavailable. Instead, there is a specific rule regarding Opportunity Attacks which declares that you can make an attack (NOT an Attack action, but just an actual attack) when certain prerequisites are met. So, taking an Attack action is one way to be able to make an attack, but there are many other rules which allow you to make an attack which does not involve taking an Attack action. If you want to actually take an Attack action, you must expend an action economy action resource in order to do so, and you can only do this at times that a rule or feature allows you to do so.
In terms of action economy management, the rules are clear that Actions, Bonus Actions and Reactions are not interchangeable. The above general rule allows you to take any action you want at the appropriate time. There is no such corresponding general rule for taking Bonus Actions or Reactions. You can take at most one Bonus Action on your turn, but what you can do with the Bonus Action is not open ended. Instead, you must have access to a feature which allows you to take a Bonus Action, and that feature will dictate exactly what you can do with it:
In addition, none of these things can be nested within each other:
In order to take an action within a Bonus Action, the text for the Bonus Action must explicitly declare that you can do so in order to create a Specific vs General Exception to the above general rules.
Crucially, it's important to realize that when a Bonus Action says that you can make an attack, that is NOT the same thing as saying that you can take the Attack action. So, for example, the Light property says: "When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn." . . . the bit that says "make one extra attack" is just declaring that you can make an attack -- it is not saying that you can take the Attack action (an action economy action resource expenditure). This sort of distinction comes up all over the place in the rules so it's important to avoid such misinterpretations.