Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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In what universe does a determination of what effect sets the base weapon damage also determine whether or not a +X weapon's effects apply?
In the same universe that a change to the base weapon damage of a quarterstaff doesn't affect the damage when you strike "with the opposite end of the weapon".
When you are attack with a Quarterstaff, you are attacking with both ends. One-handed like an oversized club is not the traditional method of wielding a quarterstaff, but Sage Advice treats it like the other end is a separate end that is not affected by Shillelagh. They didn't defend the position based on a generic vs specific ruling. They said it was because you were striking with the other end, like in 3.x where double weapons needed each end enchanted separately.
Not exactly. It says that attacks can use your spellcasting modifier for attacks. The damage die change is separate. You could make a case for Shillelagh changing the weapon damage die versus PAM changing the damage die for that attack, but I think it's still muddy, in particular because Sage Advice did not base their ruling on that order of operations.
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My houserulings.
It was asked in the next thread, and there was agreement that it should apply: Polearm Master w/magic weapon and weapon mastery
I disagree, if you attack with a quarterstaff you get one attack. That means you hit with one end.
If you have two attacks, then it is not so clear that you use one end or both ends.
That assumes that one attack represents one physical strike, which in an abstraction isn't necessarily a given. Second, if it is one end and one end versus the other end matters, which end is it?
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My houserulings.
All Extra Attack with either ends of a Quarterstaff deals 1d6 Bludgeoning damage, or 1d8 when imbued with Shillelagh spell.
The Bonus Action Polearm Master attack with the opposite end of the Quarterstaff always deal 1d4 Bludgeoning damage.
No rule says a quarterstaff uses one end of the weapon. And in D&D rules, if the rules do not say it somewhere, then it's not RAW, but it may be RAI. It is not RAW that quarterstaff attacks happen with one end of the weapon. It is not RAW that a Handaxe attack happens with the blade of the weapon. It's not actually RAW that bow attacks happen with the arrow and not the bow. These are things left to the understanding of how the weapons are used in real life because there is no RAW indication of how they are used. Quarterstaffs are traditionally gripped with two hands striking with either end of the quarterstaff in Western styles. Here is a more serious reference to one particular quarterstaff fighting style where you can see both ends used, but the shifting of the hands means that both ends will have similar force. Other styles may have hands evenly placed equidistant from the ends more like the first reference.
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My houserulings.
I was replying to the post that says it is not specified in the rules anywhere. If you want to state that a single attack is both ends, then that shuts down PAM as you are know making a "third" attack.
If we're talking RAI, the whole "attack with the opposite end" language in PAM, along with the damage die, is a strong suggestion that you are not taking a full swing with the weapon, but are instead just making a short reverse thrust or catching someone with your follow-through, something along those lines -- regardless of what weapon you're using
So there's zero reason RAI for it to do the same amount of damage a normal attack with the weapon would do
Of course, shillelagh allows you to hand-wave that away with a "but MAGIC" argument, but suggesting that a stick with shillelagh on it is going to do full damage every time you simply tap someone with it is probably going to be a hard sell for a lot of DMs
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The Sage Advice official ruling only covers the damage dice used; the Bonus Action Polearm Master melee attack with the opposite end of a +1 Quarterstaff deals 1d4 +1 + STR mod Bludgeoning damage.
Let me ask a different question that hopefully illustrates the point, whether or not your answer is the same. I throw a +1 Greatsword. I even have the Tavern Brawler feat, so I am proficient in throwing Greatswords (don't ask me what taverns I frequent where that comes up). Do I get the +1 to hit and damage?
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My houserulings.
I'd have to say yes on this one. The rules on Improvised Weapons cover using weapons contrary to their design and alter the damage dice. The rules say nothing about magical modifiers, so I'd rule they still apply as long as the item was already a weapon (so we're not applying it to items like a +1 Wand of the War Mage).
Yes, when making an attack with a
A question that relate more to this thread that lacks Sage Advice official ruling subject could be;
If i use a Quarterstaff imbued with Shillelagh spell as an Improvised Weapons and throw it, what damage does it deal?
Technically, the spell ends as soon as you let go of the weapon, so it's just 1d4 without proficiency. (I've seen at least one DM ignore that and let Shillelagh be thrown, but we're talking RAW.)
Oh yeah you're right i forgot that.
I'd argue the d8 wouldn't apply even if the spell lasted. The d8 damage die is when attacking with it as a quarterstaff, which isn't meant to be thrown. Improvised Weapons rules cover using weapons in a way they aren't meant to be used, and this would apply.
There's still substituting Pact of the Blade for Shillelagh. I presume Pact of the Blade plus Polearm Master would overwrite both the damage type of the original weapon and prevent Pact of the Blade from changing the damage type. Then we could get into the question of Improvised Weapons.
I feel like the Shillelagh ruling in Sage Advice is written for balance but defended as if quarterstaffs had only one striking end. Every part of a quarterstaff is a striking surface. Some may have reinforced ends, but they remain weapons you can use to strike with ends or thrust with.
Polestrike seems to me like a Soul Knife's psychic blade, an independent weapon created by the Polearm Master feature. I don't know if that was their reasoning, but perhaps it makes sense mechanically that way. If Polestrike is an independent weapon (just exploring the possibility), then Pact Weapon, Shillelagh and +X bonuses would not apply.
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Polestrike seems to me like a Soul Knife's psychic blade, an independent weapon created by the Polearm Master feature.
Sorry i have no clue where you are getting that thought? Can you be making this action up out of thin air? Maybe you are extremely biased, trying to justify the use of pole strike or is it PAM and looking for any reason to get more damage then a d4.