The mount shares your initiative, and I'd say it doesn't have its own turn, it's the same as your character's.
Controlling a Mount
You can control a mount only if it has been trained to accept a rider. Domesticated horses, mules, and similar creatures have such training.
The Initiative of a controlled mount changes to match yours when you mount it. It moves on your turn as you direct it, and it has only three action options during that turn: Dash, Disengage, and Dodge. A controlled mount can move and act even on the turn that you mount it.
In contrast, an independent mount—one that lets you ride but ignores your control—retains its place in the Initiative order and moves and acts as it likes.
Now the next question is; what does it mean when a mount Dashes, Dodges, or Disengages? Does the Dash mean that the character still has their regular action? If not, what is the purpose of a horse since they don't seem to move faster than a character?
On the other hand, if the Dash action does not have an impact on the character (i.e., the horse can Dash and the character still has their action), then what about Dodge and Disengage? Does the horse Dodging mean that people attacking the horse have Disadvantage but people attacking the rider do not?
In a similar vein, if the horse Disengages does that mean people don't get Opportunity Attacks against the horse but they do against the rider? For that matter, even if the horse doesn't disengage do people get Opportunity Attacks against the rider since it is 'forced movement' for the rider?
I believe if the horse provokes an opportunity attack the creature can choose either rider or mount to attack. As for the dodge action, I think only the creature who took it would benefit.
Now the next question is; what does it mean when a mount Dashes, Dodges, or Disengages? Does the Dash mean that the character still has their regular action? If not, what is the purpose of a horse since they don't seem to move faster than a character?
On the other hand, if the Dash action does not have an impact on the character (i.e., the horse can Dash and the character still has their action), then what about Dodge and Disengage? Does the horse Dodging mean that people attacking the horse have Disadvantage but people attacking the rider do not?
In a similar vein, if the horse Disengages does that mean people don't get Opportunity Attacks against the horse but they do against the rider? For that matter, even if the horse doesn't disengage do people get Opportunity Attacks against the rider since it is 'forced movement' for the rider?
As I understand the rules:
Your mount moves, not you.
A Riding Horse, for example, has a Speed of 60 ft, so Dash is useful.
If your mount Disengage, you don't provoke an opportunity attack ("You also don’t provoke an Opportunity Attack when you Teleport or when you are moved without using your movement, action, Bonus Action, or Reaction.")
Dodge is useful when not using your mount to Disengage or Dash. This way, your mount benefits from taking that action.
@ChewBobcca if a mount takes the Disengage action does the rider provoke opportunity attacks? @JeremyECrawford No, since the mount isn't provoking them and the rider is being moved by someone else's movement (PH, 195)
@ChewBobcca if a mount takes the Disengage action does the rider provoke opportunity attacks? @JeremyECrawford No, since the mount isn't provoking them and the rider is being moved by someone else's movement (PH, 195)
I think my only issue with that is that in 2024 it specifically states that if the mount provokes an opportunity attack you can target either the mount or the rider.
So it would seem what Crawford said would still hold true, I think the rules made it a little more complicated by allowing the rider to be targeted. Though I don't remember how it worked in 2024.
@ChewBobcca if a mount takes the Disengage action does the rider provoke opportunity attacks? @JeremyECrawford No, since the mount isn't provoking them and the rider is being moved by someone else's movement (PH, 195)
I think my only issue with that is that in 2024 it specifically states that if the mount provokes an opportunity attack you can target either the mount or the rider.
So it would seem what Crawford said would still hold true, I think the rules made it a little more complicated by allowing the rider to be targeted. Though I don't remember how it worked in 2024.
Did you mean 2014, right? If so, yes, the 2014 line "In either case, if the mount provokes an opportunity attack while you're on it, the attacker can target you or the mount" is not in the 2024 PHB.
So if we follow the Opportunity Attack rules, when the mount provokes one, I'd say the target should be the mount, not the rider.
@ChewBobcca if a mount takes the Disengage action does the rider provoke opportunity attacks? @JeremyECrawford No, since the mount isn't provoking them and the rider is being moved by someone else's movement (PH, 195)
I think my only issue with that is that in 2024 it specifically states that if the mount provokes an opportunity attack you can target either the mount or the rider.
So it would seem what Crawford said would still hold true, I think the rules made it a little more complicated by allowing the rider to be targeted. Though I don't remember how it worked in 2024.
Did you mean 2014, right? If so, yes, the 2014 line "In either case, if the mount provokes an opportunity attack while you're on it, the attacker can target you or the mount" is not in the 2024 PHB.
So if we follow the Opportunity Attack rules, when the mount provokes one, I'd say the target should be the mount, not the rider.
IIRC, there is a feat, however, that allows the rider to choose which takes the hit.
Veer. While mounted, you can force an attack that hits your mount to hit you instead if you don’t have the Incapacitated condition.
This feature was changed from 2014 to 2024, sadly. It used to let you make it target you instead of your mount, which meant the attack would be against your AC instead of your mounts. Now, if a creature beats your mount's AC, using Veer will cause it to hit you even if it would not have beat your own AC. Still keeps your mount alive longer, but it makes you much easier to hit if your mount is easier to hit than you are (very likely if you are in heavy armor and/or using a shield).
It used to be much more powerful, though. If you were mounted with a 20 AC, you could redirect attacks against your 11AC Riding Horse to try to hit you instead. It meant the enemies always had to try to get past your armor. Now, you simply take the damage from the attack after they hit your mount. That means the enemies can just constantly attack your low-AC mount, and you have to either let them die or take the damage yourself. Makes it much harder to keep your mount alive all the time since you will be taking a lot more hits if the enemies are trying to skewer your mount.
You can purchase any of the PHB armors to equip onto mounts (for an extra fee) to help fight this issue.
It helps...but a tanky martial will still have a much better AC than pretty much any mount. In 2014 with magic items, it would be pretty easy to get a standing AC in the 22-26 range. You would be hard pressed to get your mount's AC above 20, so it will always be easier to hit its AC than that of your heavily armored Fighter or Paladin, not to mention the ridiculous AC a Warforged Armorsmith Artificer can get.
You can purchase any of the PHB armors to equip onto mounts (for an extra fee) to help fight this issue.
It helps...but a tanky martial will still have a much better AC than pretty much any mount. In 2014 with magic items, it would be pretty easy to get a standing AC in the 22-26 range. You would be hard pressed to get your mount's AC above 20, so it will always be easier to hit its AC than that of your heavily armored Fighter or Paladin, not to mention the ridiculous AC a Warforged Armorsmith Artificer can get.
Since a mount is an independent creature, it can presumably attune magic items that help that. It might be an interesting challenge for optimization in Tips & Tactics to see what the highest possible AC is for a mount.
Attuning requires focus on a Magic Item and meditation, practice... Could an independent mount attune? (Horses listed in the Mounts and Other Animals table have INT 2; an Elephant or Mastiff has INT 3)
Relevant rules:
Controlling a Mount In contrast, an independent mount—one that lets you ride but ignores your control—retains its place in the Initiative order and moves and acts as it likes.
Attune during a Short Rest Attuning to an item requires you to spend a Short Rest focused on only that item while being in physical contact with it (this can’t be the same Short Rest used to learn the item’s properties). This focus can take the form of weapon practice (for a Weapon), meditation (for a Wand), or some other appropriate activity. If the Short Rest is interrupted, the Attunement attempt fails. Otherwise, at the end of the Short Rest, you’re attuned to the magic item and can access its full magical capabilities.
Say a horse can move 60 and hoof attack or dash. And say a humanoid on foot can move 30 and make two attacks per turm or dash. Separated like this, both creatures can intersperse part of their movement with attacks. Ie the humanoid could move 15 feet, do first attack, move 10 feet, ExtraAttack, move 5 feet, end of turn.
If the humanoid rides the horse, the humanoids movement becomes irrelevant (except to dismount) and the humanoid cannot dash(except after dismounting. Both horse and humanoid can intersperse the horse's 60 feet of movement with their various attacks
Horse and rider move 30 feet, rider does first attack, they move 20 feet, horse does hoof attack, they move 10 feet, rider does ExtraAttack. End of both their turns.
The thing i glossed over is initiative.
When a rider gets on a mount, and the mount becomes controlled by the rider, the mount changes its initiative turn to be same as rider.
If rider gets on a mount, and mount maintains its independence and is not controlled by the rider, the two creatures keep their separate turns in initiative order. This might happen if rider jumps on back of a dragon. Say the dragon maintains control of its own movement. Then they keep their separate initiative order.
[...] Horse and rider move 30 feet, rider does first attack, they move 20 feet, horse does hoof attack, they move 10 feet, rider does ExtraAttack. End of both their turns. [...]
Usually, a controlled mount has only three action options during that turn: Dash, Disengage, and Dodge, not the Attack action.
More specifically does the mount take their turn before/after the player or simultaneously with the player?
I'm of the opinion that only one creature can act on a turn (with reactions creating an exception).
The mount shares your initiative, and I'd say it doesn't have its own turn, it's the same as your character's.
Alright so it's official that I can't read lol
Either that or once again I'm getting editions in my head mixed up
Now the next question is; what does it mean when a mount Dashes, Dodges, or Disengages? Does the Dash mean that the character still has their regular action? If not, what is the purpose of a horse since they don't seem to move faster than a character?
On the other hand, if the Dash action does not have an impact on the character (i.e., the horse can Dash and the character still has their action), then what about Dodge and Disengage? Does the horse Dodging mean that people attacking the horse have Disadvantage but people attacking the rider do not?
In a similar vein, if the horse Disengages does that mean people don't get Opportunity Attacks against the horse but they do against the rider? For that matter, even if the horse doesn't disengage do people get Opportunity Attacks against the rider since it is 'forced movement' for the rider?
A riding horse moves 60ft I believe.
I believe if the horse provokes an opportunity attack the creature can choose either rider or mount to attack. As for the dodge action, I think only the creature who took it would benefit.
As I understand the rules:
From the Dev:
I think my only issue with that is that in 2024 it specifically states that if the mount provokes an opportunity attack you can target either the mount or the rider.
So it would seem what Crawford said would still hold true, I think the rules made it a little more complicated by allowing the rider to be targeted. Though I don't remember how it worked in 2024.
Did you mean 2014, right? If so, yes, the 2014 line "In either case, if the mount provokes an opportunity attack while you're on it, the attacker can target you or the mount" is not in the 2024 PHB.
So if we follow the Opportunity Attack rules, when the mount provokes one, I'd say the target should be the mount, not the rider.
IIRC, there is a feat, however, that allows the rider to choose which takes the hit.
Yeah, maybe this one: Mounted Combatant
This feature was changed from 2014 to 2024, sadly. It used to let you make it target you instead of your mount, which meant the attack would be against your AC instead of your mounts. Now, if a creature beats your mount's AC, using Veer will cause it to hit you even if it would not have beat your own AC. Still keeps your mount alive longer, but it makes you much easier to hit if your mount is easier to hit than you are (very likely if you are in heavy armor and/or using a shield).
I rather like that change. It makes it more of a meaningful choice.
It used to be much more powerful, though. If you were mounted with a 20 AC, you could redirect attacks against your 11AC Riding Horse to try to hit you instead. It meant the enemies always had to try to get past your armor. Now, you simply take the damage from the attack after they hit your mount. That means the enemies can just constantly attack your low-AC mount, and you have to either let them die or take the damage yourself. Makes it much harder to keep your mount alive all the time since you will be taking a lot more hits if the enemies are trying to skewer your mount.
You can purchase any of the PHB armors to equip onto mounts (for an extra fee) to help fight this issue.
It helps...but a tanky martial will still have a much better AC than pretty much any mount. In 2014 with magic items, it would be pretty easy to get a standing AC in the 22-26 range. You would be hard pressed to get your mount's AC above 20, so it will always be easier to hit its AC than that of your heavily armored Fighter or Paladin, not to mention the ridiculous AC a Warforged Armorsmith Artificer can get.
Since a mount is an independent creature, it can presumably attune magic items that help that. It might be an interesting challenge for optimization in Tips & Tactics to see what the highest possible AC is for a mount.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Interesting. Time to theorizy!
Attuning requires focus on a Magic Item and meditation, practice... Could an independent mount attune? (Horses listed in the Mounts and Other Animals table have INT 2; an Elephant or Mastiff has INT 3)
Relevant rules:
Say a horse can move 60 and hoof attack or dash. And say a humanoid on foot can move 30 and make two attacks per turm or dash. Separated like this, both creatures can intersperse part of their movement with attacks. Ie the humanoid could move 15 feet, do first attack, move 10 feet, ExtraAttack, move 5 feet, end of turn.
If the humanoid rides the horse, the humanoids movement becomes irrelevant (except to dismount) and the humanoid cannot dash(except after dismounting. Both horse and humanoid can intersperse the horse's 60 feet of movement with their various attacks
Horse and rider move 30 feet, rider does first attack, they move 20 feet, horse does hoof attack, they move 10 feet, rider does ExtraAttack. End of both their turns.
The thing i glossed over is initiative.
When a rider gets on a mount, and the mount becomes controlled by the rider, the mount changes its initiative turn to be same as rider.
If rider gets on a mount, and mount maintains its independence and is not controlled by the rider, the two creatures keep their separate turns in initiative order. This might happen if rider jumps on back of a dragon. Say the dragon maintains control of its own movement. Then they keep their separate initiative order.
Usually, a controlled mount has only three action options during that turn: Dash, Disengage, and Dodge, not the Attack action.