The 2024 Twinned Spell seems to have been beaten with the Nerf bat. As written, there are ZERO damage spells which can be twinned. I did a search in 'Spells' and not one fits the description given by the metamagic 'Twinned Spell'.
Twinned Spell
Cost: 1 Sorcery Point
When you cast a spell, such as Charm Person, that can be cast with a higher-level spell slot to target an additional creature, you can spend 1 Sorcery Point to increase the spell’s effective level by 1.
So it only affects spells which get more targets by higher level, which far as I can find is not any attack or damaging spell.
RAW Twinned spell specifies only that "When you cast a spell that can be cast with a higher-level spell slot to target an additional creature, you can spend 1 Socery Point to increase the spell's effective level by 1." Does that mean if I say upcast Hold Person to 3rd-level, I can use Twinned Spell on it to target a third creature, as if I upcasted it to 4th- level?
To make it twinnable, the upcast must specify something like "... can target one additional creature ...", so some examples are Bane, Bless, Charm Person, Jump or the one you mentioned, Hold Person.
There are debatable cases like Chain Lightning, Chromatic Orb, Grasping Vine or Scorching Ray, which have been discussed in the past. I don't think they are twinnable for the same reason I mentioned, but for fairness, I'll link some threads:
The 2024 Twinned Spell seems to have been beaten with the Nerf bat. As written, there are ZERO damage spells which can be twinned. I did a search in 'Spells' and not one fits the description given by the metamagic 'Twinned Spell'.
Twinned Spell
Cost: 1 Sorcery Point
When you cast a spell, such as Charm Person, that can be cast with a higher-level spell slot to target an additional creature, you can spend 1 Sorcery Point to increase the spell’s effective level by 1.
So it only affects spells which get more targets by higher level, which far as I can find is not any attack or damaging spell.
Has it truly been neutered so much?
Evan
You're a bit late to the complaint party, but to answer your question: yes, yes it has been nerfed that much. And very deliberately, I might add. Twinned Spell was seen as an autopick for MM (rightly so, with the 2014 version) and really did need to get detuned.
I think MM is in a much healthier place right now as each and every one of them has a reason to exist and presents "good choice" for the player (compelling reasons to be chosen so that you don't feel like later choices are actually "less" than the earlier ones).
Tasha's Mind Whip is the only one I'm aware of, but I haven't done an exhaustive search.
But yeah, damage spells are usually "overcast for more damage", so not twinnable. But, as mentioned in the other thread, Magic Missile and Scorching Ray likely apply.
But that doesn't mean the ability's been nerfed. It's been changed. It's now:
cheaper
applicable to non-damage spells that target n critters as a base
can be used when you're already upcasting for extra targets
And, most importantly, it's mechanically workable. The old Twinned spell was a mess, rules-wise, including such fun quirks as being able to twin eldritch blast until you were 5th level.
Is it better? Is it worse? Depends on how you play your character.
While it is nerfed its not nerfed to the point its useless or at least not worse than other options. Sorcerers metamgic is kind of in a bad spot, its attached to a full caster chassis so they can only push it so far as being a full caster and nothing else is so dang powerful. You could remove metamagic entirely from the class and sorcerers would still be a solid class. There are 10 metamagics in 2024 core and 1/2 or more are either very niche for specific builds or pretty bad. For certain spells I think twin worked. Take hold person, upcast to 3 it effects 2 targets but it is a rare situation where its better than other 3rd level spell options. So spending 1 metamagic point to hold 2 enemies instead of one is a decent option. Is it great, no but none of the metamagics are outside some specific gimmick or build. I kind of wish sorcerers were in some weird 2/3rds caster point capping out at maybe 7th level spells and instead metamagics had a lot more oomph to them.
As an aside I kind of think quickened took a hit as well as they have a bigger restriction than the that costs a spell slot, whether it costs a slot or not they can not cast a 2nd leveled spell on a turn in combination with quickened. So while a thief with fast hands can want of fireballs twice in a round, a sorcerer with quickened can not quicken a fireball then use a wand of fireballs. So while it is not worse on its own, with other ways to get 2 leveled spells off in a turn it lost comparative value.
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Hello,
The 2024 Twinned Spell seems to have been beaten with the Nerf bat. As written, there are ZERO damage spells which can be twinned. I did a search in 'Spells' and not one fits the description given by the metamagic 'Twinned Spell'.
Twinned Spell
Cost: 1 Sorcery Point
When you cast a spell, such as Charm Person, that can be cast with a higher-level spell slot to target an additional creature, you can spend 1 Sorcery Point to increase the spell’s effective level by 1.
So it only affects spells which get more targets by higher level, which far as I can find is not any attack or damaging spell.
Has it truly been neutered so much?
Evan
(I saw the conversation with wagnarokkr in New Twinned Spell changes in Sage Advice Compendium, but I think it's better to reply here, as was suggested there)
This is my opinion from a different thread. I hope a future update in the SAC, or an errata, can clarify if this is the right ruling or not.
You're a bit late to the complaint party, but to answer your question: yes, yes it has been nerfed that much. And very deliberately, I might add. Twinned Spell was seen as an autopick for MM (rightly so, with the 2014 version) and really did need to get detuned.
I think MM is in a much healthier place right now as each and every one of them has a reason to exist and presents "good choice" for the player (compelling reasons to be chosen so that you don't feel like later choices are actually "less" than the earlier ones).
Tasha's Mind Whip is the only one I'm aware of, but I haven't done an exhaustive search.
But yeah, damage spells are usually "overcast for more damage", so not twinnable. But, as mentioned in the other thread, Magic Missile and Scorching Ray likely apply.
But that doesn't mean the ability's been nerfed. It's been changed. It's now:
And, most importantly, it's mechanically workable. The old Twinned spell was a mess, rules-wise, including such fun quirks as being able to twin eldritch blast until you were 5th level.
Is it better? Is it worse? Depends on how you play your character.
While it is nerfed its not nerfed to the point its useless or at least not worse than other options. Sorcerers metamgic is kind of in a bad spot, its attached to a full caster chassis so they can only push it so far as being a full caster and nothing else is so dang powerful. You could remove metamagic entirely from the class and sorcerers would still be a solid class. There are 10 metamagics in 2024 core and 1/2 or more are either very niche for specific builds or pretty bad. For certain spells I think twin worked. Take hold person, upcast to 3 it effects 2 targets but it is a rare situation where its better than other 3rd level spell options. So spending 1 metamagic point to hold 2 enemies instead of one is a decent option. Is it great, no but none of the metamagics are outside some specific gimmick or build. I kind of wish sorcerers were in some weird 2/3rds caster point capping out at maybe 7th level spells and instead metamagics had a lot more oomph to them.
As an aside I kind of think quickened took a hit as well as they have a bigger restriction than the that costs a spell slot, whether it costs a slot or not they can not cast a 2nd leveled spell on a turn in combination with quickened. So while a thief with fast hands can want of fireballs twice in a round, a sorcerer with quickened can not quicken a fireball then use a wand of fireballs. So while it is not worse on its own, with other ways to get 2 leveled spells off in a turn it lost comparative value.