RAW/RAI - Fast Crafting + Mending?

Quote from packman767 >>

WHAT DOES FALLS APART MEAN IN D&D????

Well, I don't know if it matters for this Thread. Mending is going to require that the object to explicitly have a break or tear as defined within the spell. If a Quarterstaff literally broke lengthwise into two pieces, Mending cannot fix it (unless you used additional magic to sufficiently reduce the item) as it the break is too long. In this case, whatever falls apart means, it does not explicitly create the criteria for Mending to be cast on the object.

Apart from that:

1. I just recommend that whatever you start with, you end with.
2. Nebulous abstractions can be handled so I don't think this is meaningful outside of the question of whether Discount applies to the raw material cost.
3. I would say the first two are just variations on item (ha!) 1.
4. Mending can fix some breaks/tears, but not all. This can be significant for larger items, but yes, I think we agree.
5. sure.
6. If falls apart leaves behind an appropriately broken item, then doesn't Mending plus Tinker's Magic also create a creatio ex nihlo problem?

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Quote from packman767 >>

WHAT DOES FALLS APART MEAN IN D&D????

Well, I don't know if it matters for this Thread. Mending is going to require that the object to explicitly have a break or tear as defined within the spell. If a Quarterstaff literally broke lengthwise into two pieces, Mending cannot fix it (unless you used additional magic to sufficiently reduce the item) as it the break is too long. In this case, whatever falls apart means, it does not explicitly create the criteria for Mending to be cast on the object.

Apart from that:

1. I just recommend that whatever you start with, you end with.
2. Nebulous abstractions can be handled so I don't think this is meaningful outside of the question of whether Discount applies to the raw material cost.
3. I would say the first two are just variations on item (ha!) 1.
4. Mending can fix some breaks/tears, but not all. This can be significant for larger items, but yes, I think we agree.
5. sure.
6. If falls apart leaves behind an appropriately broken item, then doesn't Mending plus Tinker's Magic also create a creatio ex nihlo problem?

 #1-5 - I will revisit this in another comment.

#6 I had to edit my post because “falls apart” does not appear in Tinker’s Magic but in the Rock Gnome’s lineage ability to create devices with prestidigitation.  Tinker’s magic actually uses the word “vanish” so I think mending obviously would not apply to it.  So if I read “falls apart” as “leaves a broken item” then the Rock Gnome ability with mending would basically allow you to mend the device with an action instead of 10 minute casting.  But you are limited to 3 anyway so you can’t spam it too much.  But whats bizarre is the gnome lineage feature uses create while fast crafting uses craft and both of them end in “falls apart.”  And whatever “falls apart” means, it is semantically different from the “vanish” of Tinker’s magic.  And since gnomish lineage skill does not require raw materials but can still end up with “falls apart” then the crafting word of fast crafting does not necessarily mean it would end up returning raw materials.  Its a weird process of elimination, but if neither can be “vanish”, and one of them cannot be “raw materials” then it follows (I think) that broken item is the best reading of the phrase “falls apart.”  To me it is the only interpretation that works for both rick gnomish lineage ability and fast crafting, neither of which can be the “vanishing” of Tinker’s magic.

Granted one might rule that both falls apart and vanish mean the same thing in D&D, but I think in order to do so you have to be willing to say that it is possible to craft things from nothing for free, or that the items are simply from the environment but are so low quality they fall apart over night.

I am probably going to House Rule it either way, but if you allow for rock gnomes to produce raw materials from nothing, this is an exploit that could potentially break the game if a DM let it.  For instance: I make a platinum device that leaves parts, and then I melt them down.  To me this would be an exploit to shut down.

But “falls apart” leading to a broken item probably fixes this problem with rock gnomes and helps the crafter feat all in one wave of the DM scepter.

Quote from packman767 >>

#6 I had to edit my post because “falls apart” does not appear in Tinker’s Magic but in the Rock Gnome’s lineage ability to create devices with prestidigitation.  Tinker’s magic actually uses the word “vanish” so I think mending obviously would not apply to it.  So if I read “falls apart” as “leaves a broken item” then the Rock Gnome ability with mending would basically allow you to mend the device with an action instead of 10 minute casting.

Rock Gnome "creates" devices, not "crafts" them so there are no raw materials required. 

Quote from SunIsGettingRealLow96589 >>

In a world where players can cast fireball and meteor swarm, they still want you to go to the shop to buy a ladder.

Its a bit weird.

Yup. It's part of the reason I don't like Tinker's Magic or Fast Crafter.

Quote from SunIsGettingRealLow96589 >>

In a world where players can cast fireball and meteor swarm, they still want you to go to the shop to buy a ladder.

Its a bit weird.

The fifth level spell "Creation" cant even make a ladder that is permanent.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/2619077-creation

I can only assume that the reason for this is there will be that one player who starts mass producing something and selling it to get rich, and a dm will complain that they dont know what to do to stop it, and for some reason they are unable to just tell the player "no, you cant". So crafting is always tenporary.

Unless it takes half the purchase cost in goods and a number of days that the dm will make sure you never have downtime for.

 

 

 Well I mean fabricate is permanent.  But yes after a while it’s easier to just kill stuff and get loot.

If you have ever played Curse of Strahd, crafting becomes very useful all of a sudden.  So I debated house ruling things discussed in this thread to overcome the Barovian economy problem.  It works beautifully so far.