Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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Isn't the 19+ level the same as a 4+ level requirement?
If you multi class a character 4 times at third level, you can have a 12 level multi class character that not once qualified to get a ASI. Carry that further you do 2 other classes stopping at 3rd level and now you are at 18 level with no ASI. If I choose to start a new class, the first level class will also grant me an epic boon because I am 19 level total? But my 19 level character not once qualified for ASI.
Both are total level. To take your example, a Fighter 3/Rogue 3/Monk 3/Barbarian 3/Cleric 3/Paladin 3/Wizard 1, while it now meet the Prerequisite: Level 4+ of the Ability Score Improvement feat and the Prerequisite: Level 19+ of the Boon of Combat Prowess feat, it's not able to take any of those feat because no Class Feature allows it to take a feat at any level.
If instead such character reach level 4 in any of it's class instead of multiclassing Wizard 1, it would be able to take either feat.
But aren't people writing that you can be multi class 10/9 level and still take epic boon?
If I understand those that state multi class at level 19 and the above, then the two interpretations contradict each other.
Yes, it's called a disagreement, hence why this thread exists lol
If something have a level prerequisite and doesn't specify a class, it's referencing your total character level
The prerequisite for an epic boon feat is character level 19+
So if you level up and you would get a feat as part of a class feature and your total character level is 19+, you can take an epic boon feet.
For example, if were a multiclass of Barbarian 11/Fighter 3/Monk 3/Rogue 1 (stay with me here) for a total class level of 18, if you levelled up your Barbarian, Fighter, or Monk classes you'd be a level 19 character able to pick a feat for which you qualify. This includes Epic Boon Feats as their prerequisite is "Prerequisite: Level 19+".
Say you chose fighter 4—if you then levelled up barbarian to 12, you'd be able to pick a second Epic Boon Feat.
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The only arguement i read that you CAN take two Epic Boons is because when no specific feat category is stated you can take any category.
But why then go over the trouble of mentioning the Epic Boon option at level 19 at each class table?
Why make Epic Boon feats a whole different category instead of a general feat with a level 19 requirement?
Couldn't it be another oversight from WoTC?
Every feat category is tied to a specific aspect of the character, Weapon Masteries and Fighting Styles to their respective class traits and Origin feats to Backgrounds, why should Epic Boon be any different?
A character leveling to 10/9 gains no Class Feature at such level giving a feat such as Ability Score Improvement.
Perhaps a better way to state it is that to take a feat when you level up, two things must both be true: first, the level you are taking must grant you a feat; second, you must meet all the feat’s prerequisites.
For Epic Boon feats, the prerequisite is that your total character level is at least 19. So, you can take one at character level 19 and/or 20, but only if the first condition I mentioned is also true.
(Note that this means you actually can take one as a 10/9 character, if the 10 is in Rogue and it’s the 19th level you take. That’s because this class grants a feat at level 10. Other classes don’t.)
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There could be an exeption in the event you can Rebuild part of your character such as in the LEGEND OF GREYHAWK Organized Play.
Then a character 10/9 rebuild may change a feat taken at level 4 and or 8 for another one, which could be Epic Boon feat.
To highlight the new option and make a different feat recommendation.
No. It's not an oversight.
At levels 4, 8, 12, and 16, you are not required to take a general feat. You can take a Fighting Style or Origin feat instead. Weapon Masteries are not feats. So, yes, Epic Boons are not any different in that you can take them at those class levels, as long as your character level is 19+. At those class levels, you are never restricted in the category of feat as long as you meet the prerequisites.
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My houserulings.
Two very good questions that the designers haven't publicly answered. It might be that they do so in the future and then we will find out what they intended, but until they do so all we have is the rules as they stand and they don't make any more limitations than being level 19.
Nah you are getting the reasons wrong.
Your character isn't prohibited from taking a feat because of whatever level he is (in total or in a specific class) he is prohibited because he hasn't yet gained a class feature that allows him to take a feat.
If that character had taken his 19th level not in a new class but rather by becoming 4th level in one of the classes he already had then he would be level 19 and allowed to take a feat, which could then be any feat he meets the requirement for (such as an epic boon).
Simple.. Feats are per class level (4, 8 etc) Boons are per character level (19).
It is somewhat more complicated than that, but post #2 in this thread explains it pretty well.
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There's nothing that suggests that the narrow rules for Multi-classes include Epic Boons.
It's true that there is no mention of Epic Boons in the multiclass rules, though that has no impact on when you can take them. Epic Boons generally have a prerequisite of character level 19, so they can be taken any time you're granted a feat and you're at least that level.
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But you are still applying Multiclass guidelines, after you acknowledged Epic Boons aren't covered under that category. Although the overused phrase "You can do whatever you decide to do at your table", exists, I think because it was not included in the MC guidelines, then the Epic Boons are class specific. I base this on the fact that they give recommendations on what EB to select in each class. Just my opinion, but I can be swayed by a good argument that doesn't include the use of MCi'ng guidelines.
I'm not sure what you mean by "you are still applying multiclass guidelines". You brought that up; it has nothing to do with anything I'm saying.
I'm also not really sure what you're arguing at all now, but let me lay out how this works again according to the rules.
To get a feat, you need to:
The first part is usually a class feature that grants a feat (which all extant classes have at least five of) but all 5.5e Backgrounds also grant one feat each and Humans have a species feature that grants one. The feature may impose limits on what types of feats you can select, such as Backgrounds and Human Versatility only allowing Origin Feats, or Fighting Style features only allowing Fighting Style feats. However, the Ability Score Improvement class features do not impose any such restrictions; they only say "a feat for which you qualify", meaning a feat you meet the prerequisites for.
All of the existing character classes have a class feature granted at class level 19 that grants a feat. While these features do highlight the presence of Epic Boon feats and provide a recommendation for which one to take, they do explicitly say you can take any other feat that you qualify for.
The second part refers to any prerequisites that the feat itself includes in its description. Some feats (like Origin feats) don't have any, but most have at least a minimum level prerequisite, and some have an ability score prerequisite or other stuff like requiring a specific class feature. Feats that have level prerequisites generally refer to the character's total character level; while it's theoretically possible that a feat could have a prerequisite of a minimum level in a specific class, there aren't currently any such feats in any official 5.5e material that I'm aware of.
Epic Boon feats all have a prerequisite of "Level 19+" (though some also have other prerequisites). This means you can take one of these feats when both of these things are true:
For single-class characters, this combination of conditions will occur exactly once: when they reach level 19 in their single class.
For multiclass characters, it may occur twice — when they reach character level 19 and when they reach character level 20 — if at both of those times they're also reaching a level where they get a class feature that grants a feat. This might happen if, for instance, they take 16 levels in one class and 4 in another, and the 16th level in the first class coincides with their 19th total level, and the 4th level in the other class coincides with their 20th total level.
(Optional rules for playing beyond level 20 also provide additional opportunities to get feats, but that's a whole other thing.)
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The multiclass rules do not affect the feats you can take.
You gain feats when your class level or another feature says you get a feat. Most features other than the class level 4, 8, 12, 16, and 19 class features specify a category of feat that you gain. For example, the Fighting Style feature gives you a choice of a Fighting Style feat. The feats at class level 4, 8, 12, 16, and 19 do not specify a category. Because of this, you can select from any and all feat categories as long as you meet the requirements for the individual feat. See Parts of a Feat.
The multiclass rules don't disallow this so, by RAW, if you take a class level 4, 8, 12, or 16 at character level 19 or 20, you can choose an Epic Boon feat for your feat.
Also note that if someone were to publish an Epic Boon feat that did not have a character level requirement, you could take it at class level 4, 8, 12, 16, or 19, regardless of character level. Character level 19 is a requirement of specific Epic Boons, not of the Epic Boon feat category. It just happens that all currently published Epic Boons require character level 19, but that is not actually a requirement of the feat category.
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My houserulings.
Hmm. That sounds sort of pedantic or gaslighting, but I am going to presume otherwise. So let me further detail my opinion, so there is no confusion: My opinion is that Epic Boons are for single class characters and are only attainable from 19th level up in a single class. They are not attainable by multiclassing and adding up different class levels to eventually total 19 character levels. With that said, if this doesn't apply to you then we are good there's no reason to discuss any further. If it applies to anyone else, I willing to listen to and possibly be swayed by a well sound and reasoned argument. I hope this clarifies things.
Okay, I believe I understand what you're saying now. I explained in my previous post why your position is incorrect according to the rules-as-written; it's the part that you removed from your quote. Since you don't seem interested in responding to that, I guess we're done.
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