The difference between that and what I'm doing is the fact that I wouldn't ever try to use this build; I just enjoy finding loopholes
If you're looking for loopholes, that's already a bad-faith approach...
I would agree. Finding clever uses for spells or abilities is one thing. Actively trying to subvert the action economy with a technicality just feels kinda bad. It's like the Coffeelock fiasco. I would never allow that at my table, even if it is "technically" RAW.
Funny enough, I'd allow that to a limited degree. Xanathar's offered a great rule for punishing skipping Long Rests, and the Invocation for not having to sleep doesn't mean you don't need Long Rests, only that you're awake for the duration. If they wanted to do the higher version with Greater Restoration, I'd be involving limited stock on diamonds and diamond dust, meaning they'd have to choose when to use it rather than having it all the time.
"On a turn, you can expend only one spell slot to cast a spell"
"When you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal (expending any resources used to cast it)"
It seems quite clear that you cant BonusAction cast a slotted spell and then ReadyAction use a slot to later cast another spell.
Ready action burns the slot immediately, in your turn. And if you already expended a slot on that same turn during your bonus action, thats 2 slots in one turn and against the rules.
It's not about the action, it's about the fact that they're loopholes at all. If you're trying to find a way to circumvent the rules (and this is DEFINITELY something that requires imprecise wording and flies in the face of rules intent), it's automatically a bad faith interpretation of the rules. If you want to look for cool interactions or whatever, great, but they should be found the same whether under the pretense of using them or not.
I disagree that is automatically a bad faith interpretation and here's why.
When you find something allowed on a technicality, that can be an unintended rules interaction or a cool one. At that point, it is nothing more than an edge case, nothing less. It might even be intended. For example, if you ready an action to cast a spell from a magic item with limited uses, you burn a use immediately, regardless of whether the trigger ever occurs. However, when you use a Spell-storing Item, you don't because the rules on readying an action to cast a spell don't apply. I consider that a loophole, but it might be an intended loophole. A lot of what the Spell-storing Item can do feels like a loophole, but it might all be intended.
Once you find your loophole, discuss them with the community to determine whether it is unintended and, more importantly if you are a player, discuss it with your DM to see their thoughts on the matter. It is hard to act in bad faith when you are open with your DM and accept their ability to deny the interaction ahead of time and if it turns out to be a problem later.
It's very much similar to effects that make you Large or Huge stacking with effects that increase your size by one category by utilizing them in a specific order. Somehow, that loophole is more acceptable?
Casting two or more spells with a spell slot in one turn requires a Specific beats General interaction and there is nothing wrong with seeking that out. There is nothing wrong with seeking out and understanding any or all of the Specific beats General rules interactions for theoretical purposes or for actual use in a build. It is all fine. If you do find an unusual interaction, perhaps due to multiple "Specific beats General"" interactions, just be upfront about it and discuss it with your table.
Whether an individual is a player or DM, new to D&D or experienced, or new to RPGs or a veteran, encourage them to explore the game and find what is possible rather than shackle them with assumptions. A wonderful experience awaits everyone when you are free to find new ways to realize your ideas in the game.
Don't assume someone is acting in bad faith until you have actual evidence of it. The unwarranted accusations diminish the players and DM alike; they diminish the game.
Casting two or more spells with a spell slot in one turn requires a Specific beats General interaction and there is nothing wrong with seeking that out. There is nothing wrong with seeking out and understanding any or all of the Specific beats General rules interactions for theoretical purposes or for actual use in a build. It is all fine. If you do find an unusual interaction, perhaps due to multiple "Specific beats General"" interactions, just be upfront about it and discuss it with your table.
It doesn't seem as though you understand what "specific beats general" actually means
Creating a house of cards of multiple tenuous rules interpretations in an attempt to circumvent a general rule is not an example of "specific beats general". It can't be, because it's not specific
An example of "specific beats general" on this particular rule would be something like the Spelldriver feat from the Tal'Dorei book
Prerequisites: Character level 11 or higher; Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature
Through intense focus, training, and dedication, you’ve harnessed the techniques of rapid spellcasting. When you use your bonus action to cast a spell of 1st level or higher, you can also use your action to cast another spell of 1st level or higher. However, if you cast two or more spells in a single turn, only one of them can be 3rd level or higher.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid) PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Casting two or more spells with a spell slot in one turn requires a Specific beats General interaction and there is nothing wrong with seeking that out. There is nothing wrong with seeking out and understanding any or all of the Specific beats General rules interactions for theoretical purposes or for actual use in a build. It is all fine. If you do find an unusual interaction, perhaps due to multiple "Specific beats General"" interactions, just be upfront about it and discuss it with your table.
It doesn't seem as though you understand what "specific beats general" actually means
Creating a house of cards of multiple tenuous rules interpretations in an attempt to circumvent a general rule is not an example of "specific beats general". It can't be, because it's not specific
An example of "specific beats general" on this particular rule would be something like the Spelldriver feat from the Tal'Dorei book
Prerequisites: Character level 11 or higher; Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature
Through intense focus, training, and dedication, you’ve harnessed the techniques of rapid spellcasting. When you use your bonus action to cast a spell of 1st level or higher, you can also use your action to cast another spell of 1st level or higher. However, if you cast two or more spells in a single turn, only one of them can be 3rd level or higher.
This is exactly an example of the type of Specific beats General to allow for casting two or more spells with a spell slot in a turn. A specific feature (in this case, a feat), overrides the general restriction, but applies a second restriction. Unfortunately, this doesn't work without an update for 2024.
Something like the Spelldriver Feat is the loophole that TheGatoLover would need to make this combo work.
However, it is Partnered content, not WotC content, and it's written for 2014's rules so it would need to be evaluated, if allowed. It has some weird interactions with the 2024 rules. If you don't cast a spell with the Bonus Action, it doesn't help. The restriction was tied to the Bonus Action in 2014 as well, so that makes sense then, but not anymore.
Second, in 2014, the restriction was on level 1+ spells, now it is using a spell slot. The feat could theoretically prevent you from casting a level 3+ spell from a magic item or other feature. Additionally, since the restriction is on spell slots, not spell level, in 2024, this feat doesn't actually provide any benefit without being updated.
I would probably change it like this:
Prerequisites: Character level 11 or higher; Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature
Through intense focus, training, and dedication, you’ve harnessed the techniques of rapid spellcasting. You may cast a second spell using a spell slot on your turn. If you do, only one of them can be 3rd level or higher.
This version allows for 2 spells with a spell slot, while the original allowed for any number. You could also update it to allow for any number of spells with a spell slot. I just prefer this moderately tamer version if anything. It also is explicitly on your turn because the original didn't need to specify it since it requires a Bonus Action.
Note that the earliest a single class Arcane Trickster or Eldritch Knight can take this is level 12, before they get access to level 3 spells. I think the assumption is that a pure spellcaster will take it with access to level 6+ spell slots.
If you think of any other Specific beats General situations, particularly for the 2024 rules, please share.
[...] When you find something allowed on a technicality, that can be an unintended rules interaction or a cool one. At that point, it is nothing more than an edge case, nothing less. It might even be intended. For example, if you ready an action to cast a spell from a magic item with limited uses, you burn a use immediately, regardless of whether the trigger ever occurs. However, when you use a Spell-storing Item, you don't because the rules on readying an action to cast a spell don't apply. I consider that a loophole, but it might be an intended loophole. A lot of what the Spell-storing Item can do feels like a loophole, but it might all be intended. [...]
(Re: green part I highlighted) Maybe I'm missing something, but if you Ready an action to activate a Magic Item and cast the spell off-turn using your Reaction, then you're not actually casting that spell on your turn, right?
From what I am reading in the Feat's description, you have "harnessed the techniques of rapid spellcasting" meaning that you can now cast a leveled spell as a Bonus Action. This means that you increased the casting time of that spell, on that specific cast to a Bonus Action. Per the Feat description, this is due to your "intense focus, training and dedication", and is not changing the casting time, but once per turn, you can cast a little faster. This leaves your Action open for all kinds of other options.
No, the text does NOTsay that. It doesn't change the casting times of any spells or what kind of action economy it uses, it just allows you to ignore the limitations on the number of levelled spells you can cast on a turn (just as @Maruntoryx said above).
This is absolutely correct.
It is worth noting that the Tal'dorei Reborn book is written for the 2014 rules-set and the bonus action spell limitation it had. But you should be able to use it with the 2024 limit too.
Yeah, it'll work fine even with the new "one pell slot" rule.
It should also be very useful for Sorcerers, since it also overrides the limitations on quickened spell. (IMO, and check with your DM, but it's as solid a ruling as you can get when dealing with two features interacting like this.)
[...] When you find something allowed on a technicality, that can be an unintended rules interaction or a cool one. At that point, it is nothing more than an edge case, nothing less. It might even be intended. For example, if you ready an action to cast a spell from a magic item with limited uses, you burn a use immediately, regardless of whether the trigger ever occurs. However, when you use a Spell-storing Item, you don't because the rules on readying an action to cast a spell don't apply. I consider that a loophole, but it might be an intended loophole. A lot of what the Spell-storing Item can do feels like a loophole, but it might all be intended. [...]
(Re: green part I highlighted) Maybe I'm missing something, but if you Ready an action to activate a Magic Item and cast the spell off-turn using your Reaction, then you're not actually casting that spell on your turn, right?
When you cast a spell from a magic item, you are casting a spell without a spell slot. Therefore, the section in the Ready action on casting a spell:
When you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal (expending any resources used to cast it) but hold its energy, which you release with your Reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of an action, and holding on to the spell’s magic requires Concentration, which you can maintain up to the start of your next turn. If your Concentration is broken, the spell dissipates without taking effect.
The rule doesn't care how you cast it or have access to the spell, only that you are preparing a spell. Regardless of whether you are using your innate spellcasting, an item, or something else, you cast the spell on your turn. I suppose this also means that you can counterspell the Ready action but not the Reaction since the spell casting has been completed before the caster's turn ends.
If you are casting it via a Spell Scroll:
A Spell Scroll bears the words of a single spell, written in a mystical cipher. If the spell is on your spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without Material components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible. Casting the spell by reading the scroll requires the spell’s normal casting time. Once the spell is cast, the scroll crumbles to dust. If the casting is interrupted, the scroll isn’t lost.
Whether you fail to trigger the reaction or not, Readying a spell from a Spell Scroll consumes the scroll unless the Ready action was interrupted.
With a Spell-storing Item, you could actually argue as a technicality you cannot ready the stored spell. When you ready a spell, you cast it normally, but the Spell-storing Item does not allow you to cast a spell from it.
It is worth noting that the Tal'dorei Reborn book is written for the 2014 rules-set and the bonus action spell limitation it had. But you should be able to use it with the 2024 limit too.
Yeah, it'll work fine even with the new "one pell slot" rule.
It should also be very useful for Sorcerers, since it also overrides the limitations on quickened spell. (IMO, and check with your DM, but it's as solid a ruling as you can get when dealing with two features interacting like this.)
Without an update, the feat doesn't do anything in 2024. It doesn't even give you an ASI. It's just dead weight.
The feat does not reference spell slots, so it has to be adjusted somehow in order to work with the 2024 restrictions. If you just add the word "with a spell slot" after every use of "spell", you will now be required to use a Bonus Action to cast in order to lift the restriction. If you want to, for example, Magic action cast and Reaction Counterspell someone's Counterspell, you cannot unless you already used your Bonus Action to cast a spell with a spell slot. You would be able to burn a crazy amount of spell slots in one turn though as a level 18+ Eldritch Knight. If you are taking this route, are you modifying every instance "cast a spell" so that it becomes "cast a spell with a spell slot" or does the feat interfere with casting spells without spell slots as it did in 2014?
If you don't modify the feat at all, you can already cast as many level 1+ spells as you have actions for in one turn regardless of whether you use your Bonus Action or not and they can all be level 3+ or higher if you want. You just can't cast more than one of those spells with a spell slot.
If your interpretation works in 2024, you have modified the feat without admitting it and while I have no issues with that, I prefer such changes to be explicit.
[...] When you find something allowed on a technicality, that can be an unintended rules interaction or a cool one. At that point, it is nothing more than an edge case, nothing less. It might even be intended. For example, if you ready an action to cast a spell from a magic item with limited uses, you burn a use immediately, regardless of whether the trigger ever occurs. However, when you use a Spell-storing Item, you don't because the rules on readying an action to cast a spell don't apply. I consider that a loophole, but it might be an intended loophole. A lot of what the Spell-storing Item can do feels like a loophole, but it might all be intended. [...]
(Re: green part I highlighted) Maybe I'm missing something, but if you Ready an action to activate a Magic Item and cast the spell off-turn using your Reaction, then you're not actually casting that spell on your turn, right?
When you cast a spell from a magic item, you are casting a spell without a spell slot. Therefore, the section in the Ready action on casting a spell:
When you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal (expending any resources used to cast it) but hold its energy, which you release with your Reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of an action, and holding on to the spell’s magic requires Concentration, which you can maintain up to the start of your next turn. If your Concentration is broken, the spell dissipates without taking effect.
The rule doesn't care how you cast it or have access to the spell, only that you are preparing a spell. Regardless of whether you are using your innate spellcasting, an item, or something else, you cast the spell on your turn. I suppose this also means that you can counterspell the Ready action but not the Reaction since the spell casting has been completed before the caster's turn ends.
If you are casting it via a Spell Scroll:
A Spell Scroll bears the words of a single spell, written in a mystical cipher. If the spell is on your spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without Material components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible. Casting the spell by reading the scroll requires the spell’s normal casting time. Once the spell is cast, the scroll crumbles to dust. If the casting is interrupted, the scroll isn’t lost.
Whether you fail to trigger the reaction or not, Readying a spell from a Spell Scroll consumes the scroll unless the Ready action was interrupted.
With a Spell-storing Item, you could actually argue as a technicality you cannot ready the stored spell. When you ready a spell, you cast it normally, but the Spell-storing Item does not allow you to cast a spell from it.
Oh, I see now. We have a different interpretation then, as I don't consider Ready a spell to be applicable to Ready the activation or use of a Magic Item (at least those that require the Magic action or one action)
I discussed this in this thread a long time ago: Readying a spell casting item! It's for the 2014 rules, but the part about the Ready action is the same to me.
Oh, I see now. We have a different interpretation then, as I don't consider Ready a spell to be applicable to Ready the activation or use of a Magic Item (at least those that require the Magic action or one action)
I discussed this in this thread a long time ago: Readying a spell casting item! It's for the 2014 rules, but the part about the Ready action is the same to me.
The tweet you referenced suggests RAI is that it doesn't apply. There is no guarantee that the intention has carried forward to 2024 and the new wording is muddy. You take the Magic action to cast a spell or activate a feature of a magic item, suggesting that those are two different options, but magic items can have actions that don't involve casting a spell. Additionally, in the spellcasting rules, magic items are one of the ways listed to cast a spell without a spell slot. In one context, it seems like casting from a magic item is not casting a spell, in another, it explicitly is. Yay. In 2014, Cast a Spell was an action and casting a spell didn't not have the same direct references to using magic items that 2024 has so the RAI may need to be reevaluated.
I would say RAW, readying an action to cast a spell from a magic item follows the same rules as casting from a spell slot.
Still, I prefer not to burn limited resources for no effect. It sucks enough to cast a spell that misses or gets completely resisted.
So, due to the rules written below, could you not action surge, take the ready action with the trigger being when your turn ends, and the effect being you cast a leveled spell? And you could also cast a leveled spell with your other action, giving us two leveled spells in one turn
Relevant rules
It is a widely known fact that you cannot cast more than one spell per turn, due to this rule
One Spell with a Spell Slot per Turn
On a turn, you can expend only one spell slot to cast a spell. This rule means you can’t, for example, cast a spell with a spell slot using the Magic action and another one using a Bonus Action on the same turn.
You also can ready a spell, with the ready action. This is a slightly less widely known rule
Ready [Action]
You take the Ready action to wait for a particular circumstance before you act. To do so, you take this action on your turn, which lets you act by taking a Reaction before the start of your next turn.
First, you decide what perceivable circumstance will trigger your Reaction. Then, you choose the action you will take in response to that trigger, or you choose to move up to your Speed in response to it. Examples include “If the cultist steps on the trapdoor, I’ll pull the lever that opens it,” and “If the zombie steps next to me, I move away.”
When the trigger occurs, you can either take your Reaction right after the trigger finishes or ignore the trigger.
When you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal (expending any resources used to cast it) but hold its energy, which you release with your Reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of an action, and holding on to the spell’s magic requires Concentration, which you can maintain up to the start of your next turn. If your Concentration is broken, the spell dissipates without taking effect.
You can push yourself beyond your normal limits for a moment. On your turn, you can take one additional action, except the Magic action.
Once you use this feature, you can’t do so again until you finish a Short or Long Rest. Starting at level 17, you can use it twice before a rest but only once on a turn.
I didn't read the rest of the thread since the answer is clearly NO and is included in the rules you cite.
"When you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal (expending any resources used to cast it)"
When you Ready a spell you expend any resources used to cast it, INCLUDING the spell slot. This means that if you use an Action to cast a spell and expend a spell slot then you can NOT use Action surge to Ready a spell that requires a spell slot to cast since casting that spell as part of the Ready action requires you to spend the spell slot on your turn. This is prevented by the other rule you cite " On a turn, you can expend only one spell slot to cast a spell.".
So, No, Action surge to use the Ready action is not a way to effectively cast two spells on your turn since Ready also requires spending the spell slot on your turn, not when the trigger happens.
This is also why folks rarely use the Ready action to cast spells since the spell slot is lost whether the reaction is triggered or not.
Without an update, the feat doesn't do anything in 2024. It doesn't even give you an ASI. It's just dead weight.
If your interpretation works in 2024, you have modified the feat without admitting it and while I have no issues with that, I prefer such changes to be explicit.
The feat works fine without an update. It would be better if it got one but it doesn't need it (and I wouldn't expect one to come due to its origin).
The wording "cast a spell of 1st level or higher" is more allowing than one that says something +"with a spell slot" because it doesn't care how you cast the spell, it just allows all possible ways to cast one and thus it will work even with the 2024 rules. But you are correct that you would need to cast a levelled spell using your bonus action for it to kick in so in some ways it would be restrictive.
Without an update, the feat doesn't do anything in 2024. It doesn't even give you an ASI. It's just dead weight.
If your interpretation works in 2024, you have modified the feat without admitting it and while I have no issues with that, I prefer such changes to be explicit.
The feat works fine without an update. It would be better if it got one but it doesn't need it (and I wouldn't expect one to come due to its origin).
The wording "cast a spell of 1st level or higher" is more allowing than one that says something +"with a spell slot" because it doesn't care how you cast the spell, it just allows all possible ways to cast one and thus it will work even with the 2024 rules. But you are correct that you would need to cast a levelled spell using your bonus action for it to kick in so in some ways it would be restrictive.
It's more allowing, yes, but it's only allowing something that's already allowed now. Other rules aren't mentioned so they're unaffected. The others are right that Spelldriver does absolutely nothing for 2024 casting.
Don't get me wrong, it is a bad feat that works on completely different principles than what the 2024 rules do, both regarding spellcasting and feat structure and I wouldn't allow it where I get to choose. What @SMR posted above is a good start for an update, add a +1 to a stat and possibly some other minor benefit to round it out.
I mean... It's never gonna get an official update. It will never be useful on a 2024 character because 2024 characters can already cast a leveled spell as an Action if they already did as a Bonus Action, and the feat says nothing about removing the "more than one leveled spell with a spell slot" restriction. Feel free to adjust it in your own games, but Critical Role stuff isn't getting a 2024 update nearly guaranteed due to their work being focused in other directions.
I think the conclusion is that you can't use the Ready Action to get around the "one spell with a spell slot per turn" rule, because anything you could actually do with the Ready Action (use a magic item, cast a spell that doesn't use a spell slot, etc.) you could just do on your turn anyway.
I think the secondary intention was to use Ready an Action to get around the limits on Action Surge. The interaction with the one spell with a spell slot limit was already addressed.
Something that just occurred to me, there's nothing saying that you can't be the perceivable trigger, is there? Action Surge Action: Ready Action to Cast a Spell from this Scroll when I am 5 feet closer. Moves 5 feet closer.
Seems like an unintended, but technically legitimate work around.
I don't think this works, as a Ready Action consumes your Action and your Reaction which must occur on another character's turn. I don't believe you can use your Reaction on your turn, only in response to another's trigger. You could set the trigger as Joe (who is right before you in initiative) opening a door, to which you send a Readied Fireball, then cast another on your turn immediately after.
Please correct me if I'm mistaken about the Reaction.
It's technically valid to define the trigger (if you find one!) to happen on your own turn, so you'll use your Reaction during it. It's not common, though.
But putting aside the Ready action, Reactions can also trigger on your own turn:
Certain special abilities, spells, and situations allow you to take a special action called a Reaction. A Reaction is an instant response to a trigger of some kind, which can occur on your turn or on someone else’s. The Opportunity Attack, described later in this chapter, is the most common type of Reaction.
A Reaction is a special action taken in response to a trigger defined in the Reaction’s description. You can take a Reaction on another creature’s turn, and if you take it on your turn, you can do so even if you also take an action, a Bonus Action, or both. Once you take a Reaction, you can’t take another one until the start of your next turn. The Opportunity Attack is a Reaction available to all creatures. See also “Opportunity Attacks” and chapter 1 (“Actions”).
You can, absolutely, use your reaction on your turn; the prime example being counterspelling someone counterspelling your cantrip. It's just that the vast majority of triggers for reaction use do not actually happen on your turn.
I don't think this works, as a Ready Action consumes your Action and your Reaction which must occur on another character's turn. I don't believe you can use your Reaction on your turn, only in response to another's trigger. You could set the trigger as Joe (who is right before you in initiative) opening a door, to which you send a Readied Fireball, then cast another on your turn immediately after.
Please correct me if I'm mistaken about the Reaction.
Your reaction isn't used until you use it and it refreshes at the start of your turn. If you use your reaction for something before the trigger, you lose the readied action.
Funny enough, I'd allow that to a limited degree. Xanathar's offered a great rule for punishing skipping Long Rests, and the Invocation for not having to sleep doesn't mean you don't need Long Rests, only that you're awake for the duration. If they wanted to do the higher version with Greater Restoration, I'd be involving limited stock on diamonds and diamond dust, meaning they'd have to choose when to use it rather than having it all the time.
"On a turn, you can expend only one spell slot to cast a spell"
"When you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal (expending any resources used to cast it)"
It seems quite clear that you cant BonusAction cast a slotted spell and then ReadyAction use a slot to later cast another spell.
Ready action burns the slot immediately, in your turn. And if you already expended a slot on that same turn during your bonus action, thats 2 slots in one turn and against the rules.
I disagree that is automatically a bad faith interpretation and here's why.
When you find something allowed on a technicality, that can be an unintended rules interaction or a cool one. At that point, it is nothing more than an edge case, nothing less. It might even be intended. For example, if you ready an action to cast a spell from a magic item with limited uses, you burn a use immediately, regardless of whether the trigger ever occurs. However, when you use a Spell-storing Item, you don't because the rules on readying an action to cast a spell don't apply. I consider that a loophole, but it might be an intended loophole. A lot of what the Spell-storing Item can do feels like a loophole, but it might all be intended.
Once you find your loophole, discuss them with the community to determine whether it is unintended and, more importantly if you are a player, discuss it with your DM to see their thoughts on the matter. It is hard to act in bad faith when you are open with your DM and accept their ability to deny the interaction ahead of time and if it turns out to be a problem later.
It's very much similar to effects that make you Large or Huge stacking with effects that increase your size by one category by utilizing them in a specific order. Somehow, that loophole is more acceptable?
Casting two or more spells with a spell slot in one turn requires a Specific beats General interaction and there is nothing wrong with seeking that out. There is nothing wrong with seeking out and understanding any or all of the Specific beats General rules interactions for theoretical purposes or for actual use in a build. It is all fine. If you do find an unusual interaction, perhaps due to multiple "Specific beats General"" interactions, just be upfront about it and discuss it with your table.
Whether an individual is a player or DM, new to D&D or experienced, or new to RPGs or a veteran, encourage them to explore the game and find what is possible rather than shackle them with assumptions. A wonderful experience awaits everyone when you are free to find new ways to realize your ideas in the game.
Don't assume someone is acting in bad faith until you have actual evidence of it. The unwarranted accusations diminish the players and DM alike; they diminish the game.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
It doesn't seem as though you understand what "specific beats general" actually means
Creating a house of cards of multiple tenuous rules interpretations in an attempt to circumvent a general rule is not an example of "specific beats general". It can't be, because it's not specific
An example of "specific beats general" on this particular rule would be something like the Spelldriver feat from the Tal'Dorei book
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid)
PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
This is exactly an example of the type of Specific beats General to allow for casting two or more spells with a spell slot in a turn. A specific feature (in this case, a feat), overrides the general restriction, but applies a second restriction. Unfortunately, this doesn't work without an update for 2024.
Something like the Spelldriver Feat is the loophole that TheGatoLover would need to make this combo work.
However, it is Partnered content, not WotC content, and it's written for 2014's rules so it would need to be evaluated, if allowed. It has some weird interactions with the 2024 rules. If you don't cast a spell with the Bonus Action, it doesn't help. The restriction was tied to the Bonus Action in 2014 as well, so that makes sense then, but not anymore.
Second, in 2014, the restriction was on level 1+ spells, now it is using a spell slot. The feat could theoretically prevent you from casting a level 3+ spell from a magic item or other feature. Additionally, since the restriction is on spell slots, not spell level, in 2024, this feat doesn't actually provide any benefit without being updated.
I would probably change it like this:
This version allows for 2 spells with a spell slot, while the original allowed for any number. You could also update it to allow for any number of spells with a spell slot. I just prefer this moderately tamer version if anything. It also is explicitly on your turn because the original didn't need to specify it since it requires a Bonus Action.
Note that the earliest a single class Arcane Trickster or Eldritch Knight can take this is level 12, before they get access to level 3 spells. I think the assumption is that a pure spellcaster will take it with access to level 6+ spell slots.
If you think of any other Specific beats General situations, particularly for the 2024 rules, please share.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
(Re: green part I highlighted) Maybe I'm missing something, but if you Ready an action to activate a Magic Item and cast the spell off-turn using your Reaction, then you're not actually casting that spell on your turn, right?
About the Spelldriver feat, this interpretation from another thread is the one I agree with:
When you cast a spell from a magic item, you are casting a spell without a spell slot. Therefore, the section in the Ready action on casting a spell:
The rule doesn't care how you cast it or have access to the spell, only that you are preparing a spell. Regardless of whether you are using your innate spellcasting, an item, or something else, you cast the spell on your turn. I suppose this also means that you can counterspell the Ready action but not the Reaction since the spell casting has been completed before the caster's turn ends.
If you are casting it via a Spell Scroll:
Whether you fail to trigger the reaction or not, Readying a spell from a Spell Scroll consumes the scroll unless the Ready action was interrupted.
With a Spell-storing Item, you could actually argue as a technicality you cannot ready the stored spell. When you ready a spell, you cast it normally, but the Spell-storing Item does not allow you to cast a spell from it.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Without an update, the feat doesn't do anything in 2024. It doesn't even give you an ASI. It's just dead weight.
The feat does not reference spell slots, so it has to be adjusted somehow in order to work with the 2024 restrictions. If you just add the word "with a spell slot" after every use of "spell", you will now be required to use a Bonus Action to cast in order to lift the restriction. If you want to, for example, Magic action cast and Reaction Counterspell someone's Counterspell, you cannot unless you already used your Bonus Action to cast a spell with a spell slot. You would be able to burn a crazy amount of spell slots in one turn though as a level 18+ Eldritch Knight. If you are taking this route, are you modifying every instance "cast a spell" so that it becomes "cast a spell with a spell slot" or does the feat interfere with casting spells without spell slots as it did in 2014?
If you don't modify the feat at all, you can already cast as many level 1+ spells as you have actions for in one turn regardless of whether you use your Bonus Action or not and they can all be level 3+ or higher if you want. You just can't cast more than one of those spells with a spell slot.
If your interpretation works in 2024, you have modified the feat without admitting it and while I have no issues with that, I prefer such changes to be explicit.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Oh, I see now. We have a different interpretation then, as I don't consider Ready a spell to be applicable to Ready the activation or use of a Magic Item (at least those that require the Magic action or one action)
I discussed this in this thread a long time ago: Readying a spell casting item! It's for the 2014 rules, but the part about the Ready action is the same to me.
The tweet you referenced suggests RAI is that it doesn't apply. There is no guarantee that the intention has carried forward to 2024 and the new wording is muddy. You take the Magic action to cast a spell or activate a feature of a magic item, suggesting that those are two different options, but magic items can have actions that don't involve casting a spell. Additionally, in the spellcasting rules, magic items are one of the ways listed to cast a spell without a spell slot. In one context, it seems like casting from a magic item is not casting a spell, in another, it explicitly is. Yay. In 2014, Cast a Spell was an action and casting a spell didn't not have the same direct references to using magic items that 2024 has so the RAI may need to be reevaluated.
I would say RAW, readying an action to cast a spell from a magic item follows the same rules as casting from a spell slot.
Still, I prefer not to burn limited resources for no effect. It sucks enough to cast a spell that misses or gets completely resisted.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
I didn't read the rest of the thread since the answer is clearly NO and is included in the rules you cite.
"When you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal (expending any resources used to cast it)"
When you Ready a spell you expend any resources used to cast it, INCLUDING the spell slot. This means that if you use an Action to cast a spell and expend a spell slot then you can NOT use Action surge to Ready a spell that requires a spell slot to cast since casting that spell as part of the Ready action requires you to spend the spell slot on your turn. This is prevented by the other rule you cite " On a turn, you can expend only one spell slot to cast a spell.".
So, No, Action surge to use the Ready action is not a way to effectively cast two spells on your turn since Ready also requires spending the spell slot on your turn, not when the trigger happens.
This is also why folks rarely use the Ready action to cast spells since the spell slot is lost whether the reaction is triggered or not.
The feat works fine without an update. It would be better if it got one but it doesn't need it (and I wouldn't expect one to come due to its origin).
The wording "cast a spell of 1st level or higher" is more allowing than one that says something +"with a spell slot" because it doesn't care how you cast the spell, it just allows all possible ways to cast one and thus it will work even with the 2024 rules. But you are correct that you would need to cast a levelled spell using your bonus action for it to kick in so in some ways it would be restrictive.
It's more allowing, yes, but it's only allowing something that's already allowed now. Other rules aren't mentioned so they're unaffected. The others are right that Spelldriver does absolutely nothing for 2024 casting.
Don't get me wrong, it is a bad feat that works on completely different principles than what the 2024 rules do, both regarding spellcasting and feat structure and I wouldn't allow it where I get to choose. What @SMR posted above is a good start for an update, add a +1 to a stat and possibly some other minor benefit to round it out.
I mean... It's never gonna get an official update. It will never be useful on a 2024 character because 2024 characters can already cast a leveled spell as an Action if they already did as a Bonus Action, and the feat says nothing about removing the "more than one leveled spell with a spell slot" restriction. Feel free to adjust it in your own games, but Critical Role stuff isn't getting a 2024 update nearly guaranteed due to their work being focused in other directions.
I don't think this works, as a Ready Action consumes your Action and your Reaction which must occur on another character's turn. I don't believe you can use your Reaction on your turn, only in response to another's trigger. You could set the trigger as Joe (who is right before you in initiative) opening a door, to which you send a Readied Fireball, then cast another on your turn immediately after.
Please correct me if I'm mistaken about the Reaction.
It's technically valid to define the trigger (if you find one!) to happen on your own turn, so you'll use your Reaction during it. It's not common, though.
But putting aside the Ready action, Reactions can also trigger on your own turn:
You can, absolutely, use your reaction on your turn; the prime example being counterspelling someone counterspelling your cantrip. It's just that the vast majority of triggers for reaction use do not actually happen on your turn.
Your reaction isn't used until you use it and it refreshes at the start of your turn. If you use your reaction for something before the trigger, you lose the readied action.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.