Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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I want to find a way to trick a dragon into willingly letting me cast this on them, masking them as a celestial, fiend, etc, and then instant-casting Planar Binding on them from a Glyph of Warding. Boom! Ancient Red Dragon familiar. That's right.
A trick which would also involve hiding the Glyph from them AND mean them failing the Cha save (which they could LR if they have any for the day). Good luck with that.
That's in the realm of "can I try this" between you and your DM- about the only RAW way to facilitate this would be hitting them with a Dominate Monster, but good luck beating a +8 with advantage saving throw plus 4 or 5 LRs.
Technically, glyph of warding does not say anything about casting instantly. There's a valid argument for saying that if you store a spell with a casting time of an hour in a glyph of warding, when the glyph is triggered the spell is cast over the next hour.
That's because Glyph of Warding's trigger doesn't cast a spell. It makes it take effect. Same wording as Wish.
The spell is cast as part of casting Glyph of Warding instead.
You might as well just have a Cleric use Divine Intervention for this to get your instant Planar Binding... But keep in mind that Adult and Ancient Dragons have Legendary Resistances and will brush it off. So the best you can hope for is a Young pet dragon :)
Actually, now that I think about it... If I can get the dragon to burn off it's legendary resistances, I could hit it with a Suggestion to "hold still and willingly accept the effects of any spells I cast on it for the next 8 hours." That would make it 'willing' for the purposes of Nystul's, and give me the time to cast Planar Binding without the need for Glyph of Warding or Divine Intervention. The changes to Suggestion in 2024 (no longer has to be "reasonable") should make that valid.
That will require failing 4 to 5 saves so the best option would be to target Int saves and hope that it wants to use the Legendary Resistance as opposed to taking the effect.
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My houserulings.
Which is somewhat difficult, I believe; most official INT save spells don’t really rate an LR.
Raulothim's Psychic Lance does exist.
Yeah, speaking as a DM running a group that includes a sorcerer who throws this spell around a lot, that's not a save you want to fail.
pronouns: he/she/they
This was proposed in the video Suggestion is Stupid Broken in D&D 2024 Player's Handbook! I shared it in a thread with a similar idea you're proposing (Suggestion spell)
Personally, I don't think it's the intent of the spell.
A couple of related threads:
- Polymorph, suffocation, and 2024 rules
- Arcane Armor vs Suggestion Spell
Those are interesting discussions, for sure. The new 'achievable and not obviously damaging' standard for Suggestion is very wide open and easily abused, but it was clearly done with intent. Even when the standard was 'reasonable,' the example of a reasonable suggestion was a paladin being told to 'give away their warhorse to the first person they see.' So reducing that standard to include 'unreasonable but achievable' is hilariously wild IMO, but they clearly did it on purpose. Why would you think it's not the intent of the spell?
Within the context of my wizard's goal, a Suggestion of "Stand still and do not resist any of the spells I cast on you for the next 8 hours," is achievable because in 2024 you're allowed to willingly forego saving throws. And it wouldn't 'obviously deal damage' to the target because there are literally hundreds of non-damaging spells that could be cast on them - so electing to forego saving throws isn't inherently damaging.
So once I get the Suggestion to land, I could just follow it up with Nystul's to change the dragon's type to Fiend, Fey, etc, and then Bind it.
And to be completely honest, enslaving a dragon in this way is pretty tame compared to what you COULD do. Using this same approach, you could change it's type to humanoid instead, and then Magic Jar it. Why have a pet dragon, when you can BE a dragon? lol
Borderline, imo; one turn of incapacitated isn’t great, but an Ancient Dragon is tanky enough that I’d at least wait for a second in a row before popping LRs over it.
In a fight that might last three rounds, doing nothing for one round is ... a big deal. I'm pretty much always going to use an LR on any incapacitating condition, and never use it on anything else (assuming I'm writing up a boss with LR in the first case, which I mostly don't do, I give them sacrifice or recovery mechanics so your CC effect feels like it did something of value).
It should be noted that the target can still move. The dragon would be hard-pressed to get out of the spell's range, but evading line of sight might be possible... As long as the caster doesn't know the dragon's name.
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My houserulings.
If the fight’s only going to last three rounds by the time you’re up against a BBEG monster, it’s almost not worth using LRs in the first place.
I'm not sure I agree with you on that. It's a control spell... its intent is to control other creatures. And it's clear that it was meant to differ from Dominate Person/Monster only by the fact that it can't be used to deal damage. I think making an enemy submit to you in a non-violent way is very much the intent of the spell. Now did the developers thought that it could be used to setup other control spell to assert even more control over the creature? Maybe, maybe not. But I think that possibility is too obvious for them not to have thought of it.
@Natrel My problem with allowing the spell for that command @Ghazrin said ("do not resist any of the spells I cast on you for the next 8 hours") is that it could then potentially allow you to cast damaging spells that require a Saving Throw (e.g. Fireball or Lightning Bolt) as well.
And I think it’s also worth noting that a Saving Throw represents an attempt to avoid or resist threats.
Anyway, I can't say your ruling is wrong RAW. It just doesn't feel right to me.
If you want to make a BBEG fight last more than three rounds, you have to either add a bunch of chaff to absorb hits, bloat the BBEG hp through the roof (say, give it a mythic phase), give the BBEG it's own giant nasty CC effects (an ancient silver dragon fight will probably last more than three rounds because it's gonna use paralyzing breath every round and people are not going to consistently resist DC 24 con saves vs incapacitate), or play it mega-kitey (in which case being incapacitated for a round will prevent it from effectively kiting, so...). A boss that's tough enough with its base stats to last more than three rounds will just kill the party in three rounds, also limiting duration.
Ah I see what you mean. Yeah that might be a step too far. The spell is a bit vague here by saying it can't be something "that would obviously deal damage to the target or its allies", leaving to the DM to judge what is obvious and what isn't. Although it's arguable that a creature would know in advance if they are making a save against a damaging spell or something harmless.
The order "don't resist my spells" might hold once given preemptively, but once the Fireball is hurled, the target can realize that they're being attacked and decide to try and save anyway...