Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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"Hey look, the archmage has a chest that says 'Open in case of tarrasque attack' "
"Why does it contain nothing but scrolls of mordenkainen's faithful hound?"
"Well, no one ever accused him of being the world's smartest archmage..."
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid)
PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
😂
20 hounds is 80d8 damage potential. If they all hit its an average of 360 force damage, with a max of 685.
What is the health of a Tarrasque again? Oh yeah…. about twice the average.
All you gotta do is cast them all into a bag of holding and then empty the bag at a strategic point. Requires a little prep, sure.
Oh, are you nerfing the tarrasque too, in addition to all the other rules you're ignoring to make this "work"? It's got +9 on DEX saves with advantage, and MFH is save or suck. On average, you'll have less than a 10 percent hit rate if the casters have a spell DC of 16
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid)
PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Thank you for your wisdom. I am still theory crafting at this point. I have not actually used the Tarrasque in a live battle yet so this is all new to me. Most of my DMing is Tier 1 and 2.
Well the flying Arcane Trickster can just do sneak attacks with unstoppable offense…. the MFH option for 4th level is an attractive option because it lasts 8 hours and cannot be killed.
I am just theory crafting what it can and cannot do.
With 2024 it gained the ability to be moved. So I am applying it to combat situations.
The spell scroll idea was Smite’s and I admit I have not even fully thought that one through yet.
The main reason I like MFH as an option is it does not require concentration and cannot be killed. So whatever damage it does is basically a bonus. Its not a question of “how” at this point but “how much.”
In this scenario, how do you intend to keep the Hounds close to the Tarrasque? RAW the floating disc doesn't work. If the Tarrasque moves, you can only move one Hound at a time with your whole Magic Action. Without some way to keep it in place, it will very quickly be out of range of the Hounds. Imprisonment would work, but you have to hope it fails its Wisdom Save (+9 with Advantage), and also that it has run out of Legendary Resistances.
At best it seems you might get one round of attacks from 99% of your Hounds, and then not really any after.
You're ignoring all of the obvious, glaring issues with your "theory-crafting" though
You said you're the DM here, and you clearly have an idea for what you think is a cool scene in your head. Rather than trying to shoehorn MFH into that scene where it doesn't fit at all, you frankly would be better off homebrewing a new spell or magic item that does the thing you want to do. Maybe a version of guardian of faith that released all of its damage in one burst or attaches itself to the target or something
You can even flavor it to look like a dog if you want
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid)
PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I tried saying that like 20 posts ago and it didn't seem to sink in. May you have better luck.
pronouns: he/she/they
Well if you had prep time and knew what path the Tarrasque would take on the way to the city it is attacking, you could set them up before hand before the battle.
All you’d have to do is stay within 300 feet.
I am the DM so it will be up to players what they do. I am going to tell them the strategy via an NPC, probably have the NPC get eaten, and then make them improvise without the NPC helping.
They could create a Bag of Holding hound bomb and drop it on the Tarrasque. They could space them out and set it up like a pinball game so there is a hound every 10 feet or something. They could run around holding the bag of holding and let the hounds attack as a sort of offhand weapon that acts on its own. 1 player can ride on a TFD and carry the bag behind another player on a phantom steed and place them one at a time in a pinch.
The main problem I foresee is burrowing so that is something the team might address somehow. Its just not a MFH issue.
I disagree with folks about TFD because I don’t think they would have a problem with a MFH on a ship or airship, yet it moves. But maybe I am wrong, because TFD is not an actual surface but a force? I am still exploring that one. I have honestly never thought about it before this thread.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
The spell significantly changed in 2024. So I am exploring how to being the MFH into combat. Because it does not use concentration, cannot be killed, and lasts 8 hours, I see value in it against Legendary Monsters. Hypothetically.
The MFH was originally designed by Mordenkainen to protect players while they explore the world, and with 2024 it can now move. So move it shall.
Oh I thought about it. LOL…..
Mordenkainen’s Unfaithful Hound. Attacks on sight, and follows to max range and then turns around.
Sigh. The spell effect only moves if you use a Magic action to do it. There is no other way to move it
Maybe if I make it rhyme?
You cannot move it on a disc
You cannot push it with a whisk
You cannot stash it in a bag
You cannot tie it to a hag
It has no mass or solid form
It's not a creature, thing or swarm
This spell will not befit your plan
You're SOL, pack, my man
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid)
PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Cast it on a galleon at the door to the captain’s suite.
Does the MFH remain by the door for the night, or does it float off to sea as you sail?
If you say it floats away, it moves relatively but remains objectively.
If you say it remains where it was cast by the door, it moves objectively but remains still relatively.
In both scenarios, it moves in one way or another and no magic action was utilized. You have to make a choice as a DM. RAI I think it is meant to guard your door, even on a moving boat.
So I choose relative stillness, and you can let it float off to sea and do what you want.
As for the bag of holding….. it isn’t moving when its inside because its an inter-dimensional space. A regular bag could not move it but a bag of holding can move it relatively if you think about it. That is the entire point of a BoH.
A spell is not limited to just the text in its description, but the broader rules of the game as well.
The MFH is a creature because any being in the game is a creature. It is a being. A phantom hound. Undead?. Maybe. Invulnerable. Intangible. Faithful.
In point of fact, any being in the game is not a creature. Only things with a creature statblock are creatures. Compare Summon Celestial with Guardian of Faith or Conjure Animals. While the former explicitly summons something with a full stat block and suite of actions that can be destroyed by damage, the latter create fields of influence that, while based around things shaped to ostensibly represent some incorporeal being, do not subscribe to any of the in-game mechanics that creatures do. Ergo, a being coming into existence via a spell is not intrinsically a creature as the RAW use the term.
The question of whether spells are stationary in relation to a vehicle is debated, but the most common way to treat it is that spells are stationary in relation to the frame of reference of the combat. Does it make sense? Only sort of, but it's pragmatic -- it makes spells behave the way players expect. As the DM, you can rule it however you like, but see below.
You seem to have fixated on this one particular solution to the problem, to the extent that you're willing to shape your rules interpretations to make sure it works. As the DM, this is not your job. Your job is to present the problem, and let them play. You do not push the solution on them. If you're doing that, there's no point in playing. And make no mistake, "have an NPC present them with your planned solution, provide them with the resources, and then kick it" is doing that. Yes, in theory, the players can try other things, but you are seriously telegraphing that this is the solution. Much as you tell yourself you aren't, you're probably going to end up poking holes in any clever solution they come up with. You're certainly not going to give it the latitude that you're giving pile'o'hounds.
Give them the problem, and let them play. In an ongoing campaign, you might have a way on tap to bail them out if they blow it. But IIRC, this is a one-shot. You can just have the wee beastie stomp them into fine paste,
Thank you for your reply. Here is my thinking:
Creature
Any being in the game, including a player’s character, is a creature. See also “Creature Type.”
Creature Type
Every creature, including every player character, has a tag in the rules that identifies the type of creature it is. Most player characters are of the Humanoid type. These are the game’s creature types:
Aberration
Beast
Celestial
Construct
Dragon
Elemental
Fey
Fiend
Giant
Humanoid
Monstrosity
Ooze
Plant
Undead
The types don’t have rules themselves, but some rules in the game affect creatures of certain types in different ways.
- - - - - - - - - -
In my opinion, if the Phantom Hound is a creature, its basically undead or fey. It is a being with a creature type.
Sure I might be wrong. Isn’t that a wonderful thing? 😂
It doesn't have a creature type, though; that's just you making stuff up.
You are.
pronouns: he/she/they
I am creating a scenario where one faction is fighting another faction, and a city wall tower has basically a room full of defensive measures for the city guards. The Captain of the Guard is an Arcane Trickster who uses both illusions and an MFH, but there is also a chest of spell scrolls for the guards to use as needed. So this is something I am putting together into the armory.
They need a special team to install the defenses prior to the coming of the Tarrasque, which has been spotted by spies and will arrive in one day if they stay on course. There is also an army behind them keeping their distance, which will invade the city if the walls are breached.
The army will be seen in the distance but will mostly be just background scenery unless the team decides to commit suicide. 😂
The field between the walls and the army in the distance will be where the Tarrasque encounter occurs. The Tarrasque itself is being ridden like an Oliphant in Lord of the Rings, under the control of a goliath on a Howdah, with a small squad of archers on the Howdah. The Tarrasque has been tamed somewhat through torture and mutilation, and follows simple commands. But once the pilot is killed it goes on a rampage.
There are many level 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 spells that will have use in a battle such as this.
The Arcane Trickster NPC is going to fall early in the battle for narrative effect, and cause chaos in the guards, who largely abandon post.
The party must defeat the Tarrasque.
The MFH scattered across the battle field prior to its arrival can create a grid. But they can also be used at some kind of a choke point and stack on top if each other. Or they might be ignored entirely in lieu of another strategy.
I am putting together a sandbox for the players, and will use the NPC to present some information their characters would learn if this was IRL. But of course I am not forcing this option. I am just making it available for them to discover.
There. Are. Others. 🧙♂️🥷🏻🧝🏻♀️🧚🏻
I appreciate your patience. Here is where I am reading:
I am 75/25 on this.
The Phantom Warrior in Curse of Strahd is undead.
- -
The Phantom Steed (2024) is…. what? A spectral creature.
“A Large, quasi-real, horselike creature appears on the ground in an unoccupied space of your choice within range. You decide the creature’s appearance, and it is equipped with a saddle, bit, and bridle. Any of the equipment created by the spell vanishes in a puff of smoke if it is carried more than 10 feet away from the steed.
For the duration, you or a creature you choose can ride the steed. The steed uses the Riding Horse stat block, except it has a Speed of 100 feet and can travel 13 miles in an hour. When the spell ends, the steed gradually fades, giving the rider 1 minute to dismount. The spell ends early if the steed takes any damage.”
- - -
Conjure Animals (2024) is….. what?
“You conjure nature spirits that appear as a Large pack of spectral, intangible animals in an unoccupied space you can see within range. The pack lasts for the duration, and you choose the spirits’ animal form, such as wolves, serpents, or birds.
You have Advantage on Strength saving throws while you’re within 5 feet of the pack, and when you move on your turn, you can also move the pack up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space you can see.
Whenever the pack moves within 10 feet of a creature you can see and whenever a creature you can see enters a space within 10 feet of the pack or ends its turn there, you can force that creature to make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, the creature takes 3d10 Slashing damage. A creature makes this save only once per turn.”
- - -
Guardian of the Faith (2024) is what?
“A Large spectral guardian appears and hovers for the duration in an unoccupied space that you can see within range. The guardian occupies that space and is invulnerable, and it appears in a form appropriate for your deity or pantheon.
Any enemy that moves to a space within 10 feet of the guardian for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there makes a Dexterity saving throw, taking 20 Radiant damage on a failed save or half as much damage on a successful one. The guardian vanishes when it has dealt a total of 60 damage.”
You might convince me. But its kinda gray. This isn’t the main thrust of my thoughts on MFH, but I think there’s enough vague language here to debate.
The Phantom Steed is a creature because it says it uses the Riding Horse stat block. None of those other things are creatures because they don’t say they’re creatures.
There’s no vague language here at all. You just want it to say something it doesn’t say.
pronouns: he/she/they
Where are you getting this information from? It's not laid out in the description of the magic item. The bag is described as being bigger on the inside than on the outside, but not as if the contents are floating in some permanently stationary void. By default, if you pick up and move the bag then the contents would move with the bag in the same way they do for any other bag - the walls of the bag move and the stuff inside is held up and pushed along by the bag. If you placed an intangible thing in the bag then it would not be pushed by the bag's wall when you carried the bag away - it would phase through.
Another option is that the bag's interior is on another plane. That would put it outside of the MFH range limit.
An interpretation where the bag's interior is both stationary and always in range and very far-fetched.
You seem determined to make MFH an exploitable super solution for this terrasque scenario, and you then seem to be shaping your interpretation of all sorts of other rules to align with the intended exploit - and also dismissing any and all feedback you are receiving here that contradicts the idea.
The spell is just a spell that does the things it says it does. It isn't some enigma waiting to be discovered and interpreted into a nuclear-level weapon.