2024 Forgery Kit Confusion

Hi Folks,

I don't know if I need clarification or not because I think I understand how this works already. But, just for my sanity's sake I wanted to go over the 2024 Forgery Kit, specifically it's first Utilize property. I can't find any information on this anywhere, or a discussion about it.

Does no one find it strange that a Forgery Kit only allows you to mimic 10 words or fewer of someone else's handwriting? This seems like a huge downgrade from the 2014 rules, and especially the Xanathar's rules. In fact, it makes very little sense. The only "kit" you would require to mimic someone's handwriting is a pen, or maybe Calligrapher's Supplies since I'm assuming there's a quill and ink in them. I guess you could stretch the logic a bit and say there are things like a magnifying glass or something in the kit to help you mimic the handwriting.

It doesn't even really make any sense in the established structure of Supplies/Kits/Tools. Most of these, especially artisan's tools have a "craft" feature, not all of the "other" tools have this feature, like Thieve's Tools and Gaming Sets. But, all the ones that make sense to have the Craft feature, do have it(tools that would logically make things). With the exception of the Forgery Kit, which I would assume crafted forgeries...

I don't know, thoughts?

The tools instances given are examples, not the absolute be-all-end-all of what they can do. It's DC 15 to run off a quick blurb of text, whereas trying to forge a whole letter would be a higher DC.

"The only "kit" you would require to mimic someone's handwriting is a pen, or maybe Calligrapher's Supplies since I'm assuming there's a quill and ink in them."

In 2024 rules, tool kits are an item of inventory and also something you can have proficiency in.

Anyone can purchase the forgery kit. But if you have proficiency in Forgery Kit, then it affects any rolls you make.

Tool kit rolls are Ability/Skill/Tool. For.example : Dex/sleight of hand/thieves tools. I assume forgery would be dex/sleight of hand / forgery tools

The rules work as follows: your base roll is 1d20 plus ability modifier.

If you do not have proficiency in neither skill nor tool, use the base roll.

If you have proficiency in one of either skill or tool, add proficiency bonus.

If you have proficiency in both skill and tool, add proficiency bonus and roll with advantage.

If you have expertise in skill, but no proficiency in tool, add twice proficiency bonus.

If you have expertise is skill and proficiency in toll, add twice your proficiency bonus and roll with advantage.

So while all you might need to write a fake document is a quill, ink, and paper from calligraphy tools, the dc's given for forgery tools is specific to having proficiency in that tool kit. 

Anyone who.purchases a tool kit can try to do the things described in the tool kit description. But only if they have proficiency innthe tool kit can they modify their roll to do something innthe tool kit description.

The legacy description of Forgery Kit is much more interesting, and the new rules would make more sense in context of the old content of the kit. Just my opinion, of course.

Quote from VirulentArc >>

 

Does no one find it strange that a Forgery Kit only allows you to mimic 10 words or fewer of someone else's handwriting? This seems like a huge downgrade from the 2014 rules, and especially the Xanathar's rules. In fact, it makes very little sense.

Remember that this is describing what you can do using an action, i.e. in roughly six seconds or less. It is not meant to be an exhaustive description of everything you could ever possibly do with the tool.

Tangentially related is the fact that a DM can optionally choose to only allow characters with proficiency in a tool/skill to roll for something. So while anyone can have a forgery kit, it's within the rules to restrict the use of one in certain circumstances to only characters proficient in it.

Yeah; especially with the bounded scores model of 5e it’s best to restrict any technical or knowledge-based check to characters with prof if you want a sense of verisimilitude to the experience. If the whole party can brute force it, then a 0 mod might still roll high enough to meet the DC, which can take everyone out of the moment roleplay-wise.