Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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Have you ever been a player or DM in a game where it was required to make separate Stealth checks for both sight and sound? Yes or no.
Also, you're incorrect about there being no actual rule which allows you to become unheard. Right there in the definition of the Stealth skill (same in both 5e and 5.e):
The DM can always make an exception to the rules at their discretion.
Let's say your Halfling with Tavern Brawler hits a Tarrasque with an Unarmed Attack. Can you push it back 5'? RAW, the answer is an unequivocal yes. However, many DMs would be skeptical about a small size creature throwing a Gargantuan Monstrosity around the map by punching it.
When a DM decides to make an exception to the rules to forbid you from tossing that Tarrasque off a cliff, he isn't changing RAW. He's reaffirming RAW by making an exception to it.
This is no different than a DM overruling RAW with regards to Hide. If the DM determines that situation doesn't justify remaining hidden, they are not following the rules but making an exception to them - and that exception proves the rule.
In terms of the rest of it, it's not a matter of "one way or another". RAW involves the rules as written. It does not involve speculating about rules that do not exist. We know that you do not need to remain out of line-of-sight or behind cover to remain Hidden for the simple reason that there is no rule ending the condition based on cover/line-of-sight - only rules for entering the condition. Likewise, we know there are only four ways to stop being Hidden because we only have four situations that end Hidden.
Any other interpretation involves inventing rules that don't exist and is thus not RAW.
Not to mention that if you're trying to introduce the unwritten rules many players seem to want, they make features like Skulker, Supreme Sneak or Naturally Stealthy completely non-sensical because they all confer abilities dependent on those unwritten limitations on Hide not existing.
Not normally (though it was a thing in 3e), but they're separate effects.
I rest my case...
In all seriousness, though, there is a difference between a codified DM discretion inserted in a rule (the DM determines...) and Rule 0. The former is not the DM ignoring or changing the rules to suit their whims, it's the DM enacting the rules as written. It is also fair game in this subforum where we try to ascertain what the Rules As Written are actually trying to tell us. The latter, which you are referring to in your post, is not only different, it is not productive to any discussion here.
The purpose of a stealth check is for one to elude detection or otherwise not be noticed. I cannot fathom interpreting the rules to mean that making a stealth check only represents trying to not be noticed by either sight OR hearing, but NOT both. Nor can I fathom interpreting the rules to mean that a stealth check never represents trying to be quiet and also that the only ways to be quiet are if there's a silence spell or the listener is deaf. 3e did have multiple checks, and there's a reason they changed it.
I interpret the Dungeon Master Guide below as guidelines for when a creature is hidden. Walking in plain sight of enemies after taking the Hide action to me means you don't try to conceal yourself and being stealthy anymore. As DM i don't consider such circumstances are appropriate for hiding.
Stealth for example is used to escape notice by moving quietly and hiding behind things.
The thing to do when you want to be stealthy while you encounter enemies is to hide behind something out of view. The other way around where you hide then walking around freely never felt right to me.
Overruling RAW in this fashion fundamentally breaks the game. Those features like Skulker, Naturally Stealthy and Supreme Sneak just stop working unless you can enter line-of-sight and remain hidden. Indeed, I suspect a major part of the reason that Hide was changed to give the "Invisible" condition and clearly separating the requirements for entering and breaking hidden was forestall precisely the sort of argument you're trying to make - they wanted to make it clear that if you could do it with the magical Invisibility spell, you could do it with Stealth.
I can't speak for others, but it didn't fundamentally break the game for us is all i can say. At my table:
- Naturally Stealthy Halfling remain hidden while obscured by larger creature just like others remain hidden behind Three-Quarters.
- With the Skulker feat you still gain Advantage on any Dexterity (Stealth) check you make as part of the Hide action during combat and if you make an attack roll while hidden and the roll misses, it doesn't reveal your location.
- Rogue Supreme Sneak Attack normally you stop being hidden immediately after you make an attack roll but instead the attack doesn't end the Hide action’s Invisible condition on you if you end the turn behind Three-Quarters Cover or Total Cover. If you move out in plain sight or remain obscured by Heavily Obscured area or a larger creature though you don't remain hidden.
Good grief people.
The rules are somewhat open ended which is to allow for the DM to maintain common sense.
That means its going to be impossible to objectively define exactly when you go invisible and when you are seen. If the monster is looking right at you, sorry, but youbcant hide. How does anyone know if the monster is looking at you? The dm will tell you because there is no game mechanic to deal with directional facing.
If the monster is fighting a pc on every side, maybe the monster isnt looking at you. But if you just ran up on it and melee'd it, the monster is likely going to turn and look in the direction of the pain, and see you.
can that be objectively defined in rules? No because again, there are zero rules for which direction a monster is looking.
But that slso doesnt mean overcomplicate things.
A stealth check includes visual, audial, and other perceptiosn, all in one roll. Any dm who demands separate checks for each sense is just trying to force the players to keep rolling until they fail cause the dm wants the players to be noticed. That approach exists NOWHERE in the rules.
A PERCEPTION chec might be based on a certain sense but thats usually because the thing youre trying to detect might be someone whispering, or a small sigil on a wall, so different senses might have different bonuses. Robe of Eyes gives advantage on VISUAL perception checks, but not sound checks. There is a magic item of minute seeing that lets you make perception checks looking for tiny things eithin close range. There is also an eyes of eagle thing which allows you to see things a mile away ad if you were nearby. I cant think of any auditory buff features, but they likely exist.
Fuzzy slippers of elvenkind let you walk without making a sound. So you get advantage of stealth checks. Bathrobe of Elvenkind gives you advantage on stealth checks AND forces disadvantage on the check to percieve you.
If its a visual check and the pc has a robe of eyes, you let them make the perception check at advantage. If its an auditory check and they have a robe of eyes, they make a normal roll.
But you do NOT have players a bunch of separate rolls.
Same for being stealthy. If a pc has plate armor, they're going clank clank clank or whatever so their stealth checks are made at disadvantage. But you dont have them roll a stealth check for visual and another check for audio and another for blah blah cause you just made them roll at disadvantage. Two checks and if either one fails, they are seen? Thats a roll at disadvantage. And your not following raw or rai to do that.
If you do that, make sure to warn your players at session zero so they know theyre in homebrew land.
If youre a player, youre going to have to rely on a good dm implementing these rules in a good way. You wont be able to define every situation and how the rules must work. And if dm does NOT handle this well, talk with them, and if they refuse common sense and make it clear they are working against you, maybe find a better dm.