This is a RAW discussion. Always has been since the start of this thread. So yes: irrelevant.
No , no, no. This whole conversation started with your story about a "hostile DM" committing some grave jnjustice against you and your party. And you came here looking for support that your hostile dm made a bad call. The player SHOULD be unseen.
And everyone has been clear with you: your dm made the right call.
Some, not all, but some have said your interpretation might have some truth behind it, if we're just arguing in a vacuum., but everyone agrees in an actual game, your dm's call was the right call.
If someone came in here in 2014 and said the rules allow a peasant railgun, the response would be similar: maybe a technical reading would support it, but no dm would allow it in their game.
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“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” — Voltaire
This is a RAW discussion. Always has been since the start of this thread.
In that case: even though I've previously posted support for your interpretation in this thread, you probably should be aware of the RAW at the beginning of the PHB and DMG (aka 'Rule 0'):
"the DM decides how to apply the rules" (DMG p.5) and the DM oversees "how the group uses the game’s rules" (PHB p.7)
As a player, you were absolutely in the wrong in this instance (especially since this particular rule is clearly subject to interpretation). Had you been the DM, I would say the same to any player that argued against you on this at the table. That's how the rules work, especially when both interpretations have merit.
Citing "The DM makes up the rules" as RAW in a RAW discussion is the epitome of bad faith... Especially considering that the point of this topic was to illustrate that his interpretation didn't hold in a RAW perspective. And it's important to note that if I'm focusing on RAW here, it's because that DM had a very RAW DMing style. He had absolutely no concept of Rule of Cool whatsoever, never awarded Heroic Inspiration to anyone, and I had only ever seen him ignore RAW readings when it was somehow detrimental to the players (that's what I meant by "hostile"). He was basically the textbook manifestation of why many players think that "the DM is the enemy". So yeah, RAW matters here, because that's how he ran his games. 100% RAW.
This discussion has gone on for several pages now and gotten unnecessarily heated on a few users sides. I'd also recommend reading our Guidelines again; Rule 0 and the DM's call is incredibly important to a game, but less relevant to a discussion on what the rules as written actually say (which you are then free to ignore in your own games).
No , no, no. This whole conversation started with your story about a "hostile DM" committing some grave jnjustice against you and your party. And you came here looking for support that your hostile dm made a bad call. The player SHOULD be unseen.
And everyone has been clear with you: your dm made the right call.
Some, not all, but some have said your interpretation might have some truth behind it, if we're just arguing in a vacuum., but everyone agrees in an actual game, your dm's call was the right call.
If someone came in here in 2014 and said the rules allow a peasant railgun, the response would be similar: maybe a technical reading would support it, but no dm would allow it in their game.
“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” — Voltaire
In that case: even though I've previously posted support for your interpretation in this thread, you probably should be aware of the RAW at the beginning of the PHB and DMG (aka 'Rule 0'):
"the DM decides how to apply the rules" (DMG p.5) and
the DM oversees "how the group uses the game’s rules" (PHB p.7)
As a player, you were absolutely in the wrong in this instance (especially since this particular rule is clearly subject to interpretation). Had you been the DM, I would say the same to any player that argued against you on this at the table. That's how the rules work, especially when both interpretations have merit.
Citing "The DM makes up the rules" as RAW in a RAW discussion is the epitome of bad faith... Especially considering that the point of this topic was to illustrate that his interpretation didn't hold in a RAW perspective. And it's important to note that if I'm focusing on RAW here, it's because that DM had a very RAW DMing style. He had absolutely no concept of Rule of Cool whatsoever, never awarded Heroic Inspiration to anyone, and I had only ever seen him ignore RAW readings when it was somehow detrimental to the players (that's what I meant by "hostile"). He was basically the textbook manifestation of why many players think that "the DM is the enemy". So yeah, RAW matters here, because that's how he ran his games. 100% RAW.
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ModeratorThis discussion has gone on for several pages now and gotten unnecessarily heated on a few users sides. I'd also recommend reading our Guidelines again; Rule 0 and the DM's call is incredibly important to a game, but less relevant to a discussion on what the rules as written actually say (which you are then free to ignore in your own games).
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