Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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I'm struggling with how Battle Familiar interacts with the Imp familiar from Pact of the Chain.
Battle Familiar has this sentence in it: "For the duration, your familiar can attack in addition to taking other actions as normal, and your familiar’s game statistics are replaced by the Battle Familiar stat block, but it retains its creature type, alignment, Hit Points, Hit Point Dice, and any features granted by the Find Familiar spell. Your familiar gains a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to the Hit Points of the battle familiar."
I can't determine if stat block just means the STR, DEX, CON, etc or if this also includes it's Traits and Actions. It's confused because Battle Familiar does use the Imp's Hit Points which are a part of the stat block. Clearly I would like the Imp to retain it's invisibility, magic resistance, and sting but I just can't tell if these are being replaced by the Battle Familiar stat block.
How are you guys playing this?
All it's traits, saves, etc... are replaced. That includes invisibility, magic resistance, etc...
You retain the find familiar spell features, plus your hp and HD. You might also keep Investment of the Chain Master abilities, talk to the DM. But anything inherent in the form itself is lost.
So if this is true then Battle Familiar is a horrible spell for a Warlock who has Pact of the Chain to take. An Imp's only gain is temp hit points. At level 3 the spell let's the familiar attack twice (it's own attack + the Warlock's Bonus Action). But an Imp would lose a significant amount of damage and the first attack at advantage (assuming it was invisible). It's damage goes from 3d6+3 per attack down to 1d8+5. It seems strange that a level 2 spell would make the Warlock familiar worse.
I think this character is getting the delete treatment.
Battle Familiar is a stupidly good spell, but Warlocks with Pact of the Chain get stupidly good familiars choices. I don't think letting that stack would be the best plan...
Depends on your DM's interpretation of the Battle Familiar spell. It says "If you have a familiar from the Find Familiar spell when you cast this spell, you empower your existing familiar rather than conjuring a new one"...
Since you (as a Warlock) use the Find Familiar spell to summon your Imp, Quasit, Pseudodragon, etc., you are empowering your currently active familiar.
The next part of the spell says "For the duration, your familiar can attack in addition to taking other actions as normal,"... meaning it does not require you to give up one of your attacks if your using Pact of the Chain or a bonus action if you're using Investment of the Chain Master.
After that, the spell says "and your familiar’s game statistics are replaced by the Battle Familiar stat block, " .... So I would say that this means that the familiar's stats (ability scores and their relevant modifiers; spell save DC's; AC, movement speeds, etc.) are swapped out for the new ones.
However, the next part says "but it retains its creature type, alignment, Hit Points, Hit Point Dice, and any features granted by the Find Familiar spell." I would say that the only part that needs to be looked at here is the 'and ANY features granted by the Find Familiar spell', like Telepathic Connection, Combat, Disappearance and Only One Familiar sections. Since a warlock gains an enhanced form of Find Familiar using Pact of the Chain, it allows for the choice of more creature types and also allows the use of forgoing one of the warlock's attacks to grant the familiar to use its own attacks. Unique traits that come with the chosen familiar - invisibility, granting a bonus to saving throws, magic resistance, shape shifting, etc.) are part of the chosen creature so I would consider those as features that would be retained. Stripping a familiar of its inherent abilities seems wrong.
The spell further says "Your familiar gains a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to the Hit Points of the battle familiar. Battle Familiar ends early if the familiar has no more Temporary Hit Points left, and these Temporary Hit Points vanish if any remain when Battle Familiar ends. Your familiar reverts to its previous form when Battle Familiar ends." This last part seems pretty simple. Your familiar keeps their original hit points and Hit Dice and adds temporary hit points equal to the Battle Familiar form you choose. An Imp has 21 hit points and 6d4 hit dice (which don't change) so taking the Brute option would add a base of 30 temp hit points plus 5 temp hit points for each level over 2 that you can cast.
Anywho, those are my thoughts on the issue. If you see any flaws, please let me know.
This is pretty clearly wrong. You replace your familiar's entire statblock. If you had a bat familiar, it would lose blindsight and flight when you cast Battle Familiar for a Brute form. It would only retain the following from its statblock: its 1hp, 1d4 hd, creature type (Fey, Celestial, or Fiend as per Find Familiar), and alignment. It also retains any features granted by the Find Familiar spell: notably Telepathic Connection and the ability to dismiss it to a pocket dimension as a bonus action.
The Warlock's alternate familiar forms are not features granted by the find familiar spell. They're alternate statblocks - which explicitly get replaced. Things like Magic Resistance, Invisibility, Shape Shifting are traits of those stat blocks, and are replaced along with the rest of their statblock by the new stat block.
The only part of Pact of the Chain Master that is retained is the ability to use your attack action to cause the familiar to attack as its reaction. (As that is an additional feature granted to the Warlock by the find familiar spell).
Now, Investment of the Chain Master provides what are additional features granted by the find familiar spell. You should retain those abilities. (ie, Aerial or Aquatic, Quick Attack (although this is useless, as the battle familiar can already attack with its action), Necrotic or Radiant Damage, Your Save DC (not that this matters with Battle Familiar forms), and Resistance)
The Familiar Friend's Origin Feat features still work. The hp increase is obviously and explicitly retained. And it's still your familiar for Helpful Friend.
Other Familiar feats still work. It's still your familiar.
Think of this like the Polymorph spell. If you polymorph yourself, you lose access to your species features because your statblock is replaced.
Probably, you meant species traits. Additionally, class features and traits are not retained either with Polymorph.
Indeed.
Fortunately, familiars don't have class features or traits, so the comparison isn't disrupted by that =)