Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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I would note that lack of clarity in 5e rules is to some degree intentional, as they wanted 5e to get away from rather gamist design of 3e and 4e, but they sometimes make the mistake of trying to have it both ways -- they try to be simultaneously clear and informal, and manage to be neither (the reason you construct formal languages is because doing so assists in giving text clear and unequivocal meaning).
How can you visualize or describe something you never saw, and never been to that location.
It would be a guess.
Your player guessed the location:
Again, the spell explicitly says you can choose a location based on a direction and distance from your current position, without needing to be able to see or describe it.
With all due respect, it is starting to seem like you're deliberately ignoring the part of the spell description that contradicts your position.
pronouns: he/she/they
You can imagine that there's probably something behind the locked door or barrier you want to get past. If there isn't, then you're taking the damage, but otherwise you can get past it. Or you can just say "10 feet thataway!" and ignore the imagination part entirely. This is the point of the spell.
You don't have to. You have to describe where you want to go. Here is the wording of the spell: " It can be a place you can see, one you can visualize, or one you can describe by stating distance and direction, such as “200 feet straight downward” or “300 feet upward to the northwest at a 45-degree angle.”
As such, your player is completely in the right here, and you are very incorrect. He describe where he wanted to go by stating "that point I can see, but one meter to the left. Even though he does not know exactly what is there, that does not matter to the spell, because he knows where he wants to go and can describe how to get there.
Being able to visualize the destination is only one of THREE separate ways to tell the spell where you want to go
1) You can see the destination -- say, the front door of a building a couple hundred feet away
2) You can visualize the destination -- say, a room you've been to before that's inside the building
3) You can describe the distance and direction you would travel to get to the destination -- say, 10 feet past the back corner of the building and 10 feet to the left
All of those are explicitly allowed by dimension door
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid)
PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Sevidz is wrong on every count. Plain and simple. Specific rules beat general rules every time. For example, Poison Resistance is a general rule. However, the Poison damage from an Assassin Rogue's ability ignores that. So it is with Dimension Door. The specifics of the spell overcome any general rules about spellcasting and/or teleportation. The rules table he added is specifically for the spell Teleport and no other spell. He's also wrong about the target of the spell; it's not the location, it's the caster.
"You teleport to a location within range. You arrive at exactly the spot desired. It can be a place you can see, one you can visualize, or one you can describe by stating distance and direction, such as “200 feet straight downward” or “300 feet upward to the northwest at a 45-degree angle.”
-You teleport to a location within range. You arrive at exactly the spot desired.
Full stop. No other requirements needed. No line of sight, no prior knowledge of the location, etc. It can be a place you can see OR one you can visualize OR one you can describe. You can easily visualize and/or describe the location that is 10 feet around a corner.
When we solicit the Internet for advice, sometimes we are a little embarrassed by the answers provided. Especially when we invite our players to the public discussion. A good DM will swallow the wounded pride, accept when they are wrong, and move on. Being the DM means you have to be wrong sometimes, but it is best when you don't try to stay wrong.
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Look if you truly do not want the character to dimension door to that specific spot just put something there.
The spell states the castor can use direction and range, only, to port to a new area. Just put a tree in the area that he can not see.
But I have used DD to teleport to someplace in the air above my target area and used feather fall to safely land.
Unfortunately, according to the RAW, Dimension Door currently does not work as intended because of the Clear Path rule for spellcasting. It's a poorly worded spell that needs errata. All that has to happen is to just change the spell . . .
From:
Range: 500 feet; "You teleport to a location within range".
To:
Range: Self; "You teleport to a location within 500 feet".
As an example, see "Misty Step":
Easy fix. But until that official errata actually happens, just house rule this one. The intent of the spell is clear.
Why are you assuming that the target of the spell is the destination and not the caster? Because it has a range? As I said in a previous post, I don't think that's enough to draw that conclusion. Simple context and comparison to other teleport spells tells us that the target is still the caster, despite there being a range.
RAW, this spell either works (the caster is the target) or it doesn't (target is the destination) depending on how you interpret the text to specify the target. Why would you choose to interpret it the way that breaks the spell when there is a perfectly valid way to read it that does exactly what everyone expects it to do?
What is this 'Clear Path' rule you speak of? Dimension Door specifically does not require any line of sight or clear path.
And the two examples you mention: "
From:
Range: 500 feet; "You teleport to a location within range".
To:
Range: Self; "You teleport to a location within 500 feet"."
are literally saying the exact. same. thing. lol There is no difference between saying 'within range' and 'within 500 feet' since the range is 500 feet. They are completely synonymous.
RAW Dimension Door works perfectly fine as intended. "You teleport to a location within range. You arrive at exactly the spot desired. It can be a place you can see, one you can visualize, or one you can describe by stating distance and direction, such as “200 feet straight downward” or “300 feet upward to the northwest at a 45-degree angle.” There are no limiting factors mentioned besides the range and being able to EITHER "see" it, OR "visualize" it, OR "describe" it. "I want to Teleport 10 feet behind the wall that is 30 feet directly in front of me." is a perfectly valid location that is behind total cover that I cannot see. Guess what...if the wall is 10 feet thick...the spell fails and I take 4d6 force damage. If its only 5 feet thick and clear on the other side? I appear there, safe and sound. Everything you need to understand how this spell works is written in the spell's description. There are 0 other rules that apply to this spell that aren't mentioned in the description.
Range
A spell’s range indicates how far from the spellcaster the spell’s effect can originate, and the spell’s description specifies which part of the effect is limited by the range.
A range usually takes one of the following forms:
Distance. The range is expressed in feet.
Touch. The spell’s effect originates on something, as defined by the spell, that the spellcaster must touch within their reach.
Self. The spell is cast on the spellcaster or emanates from them, as specified in the spell.
This is why the spell has a range of 500 feet and not 'Self'. It's not a spell that you cast on yourself like invisibility. It has a distance that it can effect the caster. The caster is OBVIOUSLY the target of the spell for multiple reasons. The spell affects the target of the spell...obviously. You aren't affecting the location. You are effecting yourself...by the spell teleporting you. How you could ever think the target is the location is beyond me...just because the spell has a range? The range is also not the target.
This must be the Clear Path you were mentioning: A Clear Path to the Target. To target something with a spell, a caster must have a clear path to it, so it can’t be behind Total Cover. You aren't targeting just something with this spell...you're targeting yourself. You always have a clear path to yourself. "You teleport to a location within range." YOU teleport. YOU are the target. The location isn't teleporting. The location isn't the target of the spell.
Also, why did you conveniently not copy the entire description for Misty Step? "Briefly surrounded by silvery mist, you teleport up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space you can see." Again, it's wording is painfully clear. It has a range of 30 feet and you must be able to see the unoccupied space. Why include "to an unoccupied space you can see" if the rule is clear from the A Clear Path to the Target rule? But that doesn't apply, so it needs the restriction in the spell's description. The Clear Path rule doesn't apply to Misty Step because you are targeting yourself...the only thing you can target with Misty Step...and you can't have Total Cover from yourself.
Because if the intention was to cast the spell on the spellcaster / directly target the spellcaster / cause the spell effect to originate on the spellcaster, and this is the only way that the spell is intended to be cast, then the spell would have a Range of Self:
Instead, this spell has a range of 500 feet, which indicates how far from the spellcaster the spell’s effect can originate. It's just an oversight by the author of this particular spell. The correct way to accomplish this such that other general spellcasting rules don't get in the way is the way in which Misty Step was written.
The range parameter is almost never used to define something about the spell that has nothing to do with where the spell's effect can originate, especially when the claim is that in this case the range parameter is apparently NOT used to indicate where the spell effect can originate, despite that being the very purpose and definition of the Range parameter. Spells are generally cast at or on something or someplace and this is limited by the range parameter and is also limited by the clear path rule.
The main use case where a "target" of a spell (as defined in the Rules Glossary) is not necessarily what the spell is being cast "at" or "on" is an Area of Effect spell. For virtually all direct targeting spells it's basically the same thing since you cause the spell effect to originate at the target's location in those cases.
Bingo.
In this context, "to target something with a spell" is referring to where the spell is being cast / where the spell originates. It's not really talking about the Rules Glossary version of a "target" since that would cause the generally accepted understanding of how AoE spells are meant to work to completely malfunction. It's accidentally using the term in the way that was more consistent with the 5e way that the term was used -- when the authors went through the books to update every place where the term is used, they missed this one. The Clear Path rule really should be updated with errata so that it's clear that it's meant to work in the same way that it worked in 5e. But for now, we all just understand that the Clear Path rule is talking about where a spell can be cast -- it must be cast to a location (within range) along a clear path such that the spell effect originates there.
The problem with Dimension Door is that if it is possible to cause the spell effect to originate 500 feet away from you then this must happen without violating the Clear Path rule, even though the spell itself is obviously meant to work differently.
Because whether or not you are required to see your destination is totally irrelevant to the discussion. I'm talking about the Clear Path rule and the Clear Path rule has nothing to do with sight. Misty Step is being used as an example for defining the proper range for a spell that is cast on and also targets the spellcaster. If some other range is defined within the range parameter, then that's generally not what is happening with the spell.
Again, it's an easy fix although it is unlikely to be fixed. Just house rule it so that it works as intended.
Would you say the same about Teleport or Clairvoyance, and claim that they don't work?
As several people have mentioned in this or other threads, the Range entry does not define the target(s).
And for Area of Effect spells like Fireball, the point of origin is simply a point of origin limited by the spell's Range, since Range is "how far from the spellcaster the spell’s effect can originate". But the point of origin is not the spell's target.