Thief/Fast Hands and items that cast spells

Fast hands specifies that a thief can use it for "Use an Object. Take the Utilize action, or take the Magic action to use a magic item that requires that action."

The question is, does this apply to an item that casts a spell (with a casting time of one action), since items that cast spells do not specifically say that the require the magic action -- rather, they say that they allow casting a spell, and casting a spell with a casting time of one action requires the magic action.

Quote from Pantagruel666 >>

The question is, does this apply to an item that casts a spell (with a casting time of one action), since items that cast spells do not specifically say that the require the magic action -- rather, they say that they allow casting a spell, and casting a spell with a casting time of one action requires the magic action.

The applicable general rule is "It usually takes a Magic action to activate a magic item." from the DMG. The cagey language is around the fact that some spells use a Bonus Action or Reaction, instead. (And Fast Hands won't work with such spells.)

Quote from Pantagruel666 >>

Fast hands specifies that a thief can use it for "Use an Object. Take the Utilize action, or take the Magic action to use a magic item that requires that action."

The question is, does this apply to an item that casts a spell (with a casting time of one action), since items that cast spells do not specifically say that the require the magic action -- rather, they say that they allow casting a spell, and casting a spell with a casting time of one action requires the magic action.

I don't see why it wouldn't apply. If the spell's casting time is an action, you're taking the Magic action to cast it. If you're casting it from an item, that certainly seems like "taking the Magic action to use a magic item that requires that action" to me.

It seems like if they intended for Fast Hands to not apply to casting a spell from an item, that would be called out explicitly somewhere.

Quote from kenclary >>

The applicable general rule is "It usually takes a Magic action to activate a magic item." from the DMG. The cagey language is around the fact that some spells use a Bonus Action or Reaction, instead. (And Fast Hands won't work with such spells.)

Yea this is the correct answer. This is a change from the 2014 rules where the Rogue only got to do the Use an Object action and the 2014 DMG and Sage Advice specified that activating an item didn't use the Use an Object action. In the 2024 rules it take a magic action to activate and the Rogue now gets to do that too.

Quote from Thezzaruz >>

Quote from kenclary >>

The applicable general rule is "It usually takes a Magic action to activate a magic item." from the DMG. The cagey language is around the fact that some spells use a Bonus Action or Reaction, instead. (And Fast Hands won't work with such spells.)

Yea this is the correct answer. This is a change from the 2014 rules where the Rogue only got to do the Use an Object action and the 2014 DMG and Sage Advice specified that activating an item didn't use the Use an Object action. In the 2024 rules it take a magic action to activate and the Rogue now gets to do that too.

There are a few 5.5e magic items that are activated with the Utilize action instead, but Fast Hands lets a Thief do that as a bonus action too.

To my understanding, casting spells from some magic items takes the spell's normal casting time (Spells Cast from Items) unless the Magic action is specified, for example to activate it. But anyway a casting time of 1 action is equivalent to taking the Magic action:

When you take the Magic action, you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action or use a feature or magic item that requires a Magic action to be activated.

So, for example, you could cast Fireball (casting time of one action) from a Spell Scroll or to activate/use a Necklace of Fireballs (it takes a Magic Action) with your Bonus Action.

If I'm not wrong, it's the same POV as wagnarokkr's then.

I also remember some threads asking or commenting about this topic, if they can be of help here:

- Who can use Spell Scrolls
- Can a Thief's Fast Hands use Magic Items to Cast Spells as Bonus Action?
- Staff of the Magi and Conjure Elemental casting time
- 2024 wand action
- Various questions about Sentinel, Mirror Image, Booming Blade, etc
- Enspelled Items (2024) questions (comment #19)

Essentially the rule boils down to this;

The rogue can activate a magic item as a Bonus Action except in the following two cases:

1. The magic item requires more than a single action to activate it (e.g. a scroll of Leomund's Tiny Hut)
2. The magic item requires a Reaction to activate it. (e.g. a scroll of Feather Fall)

In both those cases the Rogue could still use the item. They simply would not be able to do it as a Bonus Action.

Quote from esampson >>

Essentially the rule boils down to this;

The rogue can activate a magic item as a Bonus Action except in the following two cases:

1. The magic item requires more than a single action to activate it (e.g. a scroll of Leomund's Tiny Hut)
2. The magic item requires a Reaction to activate it. (e.g. a scroll of Feather Fall)

In both those cases the Rogue could still use the item. They simply would not be able to do it as a Bonus Action.

That's a good way to summarize it.