I have a question regarding the trait Awakened Mind/Reawakened in Grim Hollow:
The dangers of Etharis have given you a focus that allows you to shrug off debilitating magical effects. You automatically succeed on saving throws against magical effects that would give you the Incapacitated, Stunned, or Unconscious conditions. This does not include effects that leave you Unconscious because you are reduced to 0 Hit Points.
Reawakened. If you take this trait twice, you also have Advantage on Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma saving throws.
The Awakened Mind trait, the first tier, explicitly restricts its advantages to magical effects. The second tier does not do this. I have seen some articles assume that the second tier does the same. I don't think it's unreasonable, given the flavor text. RAW, it seems clear enough: there is no restriction in the second tier. What are you thoughts on RAI?
For completeness' sake, I would like to add that the second tier would grant advantage on saves against the majority of spells, if not all, that inflict the conditions charmed, frightened, and paralyzed, as well as half of the spells that inflict petrified. It's notable that the designers did not choose advantage against these conditions outright, instead making it so that there are still spells excepted. Of course, choosing ability score as a base also means advantage on saves against other kinds of spells.
In terms of balancing, I would say both tiers are very powerful, even if one assumes Reawakened is restricted to magical effects. You would need to take the Magical Fortification trait (advantage on saves for one ability score) three times for the same effect. There are no other traits that provide protection against magical incapacitated, stunned, or unconscious. There is only the Origin feat: Free Sword Mercenary's Will (also from Grim Hollow), which provides advantage on all saves against conditions.
I would just like to point out that the second part does not mention that it only applies to magical effects. Therefore, it does not, and there is no reason to think it does.
TBH I find this very poorly designed / worded. For instance Paralyzed also inflicts the Incapacitated condition, so tier 1 of this ability should give autosuccess against Paralysis spells indirectly via the interaction with Incapacitated. But that's also the case for Stunned. Stunned give the Incapacitated condition, thus tier 1 doesn't need to specify it as a separate condition it give autosuccess on. Petrified also gives the Incapacitated condition, so again tier 1 should give autosuccess against becoming petrified, though many petrification effect (e.g. Medusa's gaze) require two failed saves to become Petrified, the first only only causes Restrained, thus it is unclear to me whether this feat gives an autosuccess on the first save - since part of that effect is to cause Petrified on the second save thus that same magical effect does cause incapacitated - or whether it would only apply to the second save since the first save does not cause incapacitated.
The first tier alone IMO gives autosuccess against: paralyzed, stunned, incapacitated, petrified, and sleep-effects. Plus many spells / abilities that combined incapacitated with other conditions such as Hypnotic Pattern and Banishment.
TBH, the second tier seems extremely marginal in terms of improvement over the first tier, it's main benefit is Adv vs fear-effects since most fear effects do not cause incapacitated, and I guess Adv vs domination-charm effects.
That's an interesting point. To take paralysis as an example, I think the most obvious answer is that there is no advantage from tier one against paralysis spells, per se. There are two spells (I can find) that would inflict that condition, and 18 different spells that inflict incapacitated. The tier one trait only affects 'saving throws against magical effects that would give you the Incapacitated, Stunned, or Unconscious conditions'. When you are hit with a spell that inflicts incapacitated, you get a save against it, on which you have advantage. If you fail that save, you do not get a save against the incapacitated condition because it is applied by the paralyzed condition, not the spell. That condition does not give you a save, so there can be no advantage, let alone an auto-success.
I think it would be accurate to view paralysis as a more severe form of something like incapacitated, and that requires stronger protection. As such, it is locked behind tier two, and it does not get an auto-success.
I see now that I mistakenly included petrified, earlier. It is not covered by this trait because it relies only on con saves.
As to the efficacy of the second tier, do not forget that its effect is not limited to saves against spells that apply a certain condition. Tier two is based on int, wis, and cha. That means it works on as many as 133 spells (that I can find). And, well, probably non-magical effects as well. So, coming back to my original question... :)
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I have a question regarding the trait Awakened Mind/Reawakened in Grim Hollow:
The Awakened Mind trait, the first tier, explicitly restricts its advantages to magical effects. The second tier does not do this. I have seen some articles assume that the second tier does the same. I don't think it's unreasonable, given the flavor text. RAW, it seems clear enough: there is no restriction in the second tier. What are you thoughts on RAI?
For completeness' sake, I would like to add that the second tier would grant advantage on saves against the majority of spells, if not all, that inflict the conditions charmed, frightened, and paralyzed, as well as half of the spells that inflict petrified. It's notable that the designers did not choose advantage against these conditions outright, instead making it so that there are still spells excepted. Of course, choosing ability score as a base also means advantage on saves against other kinds of spells.
In terms of balancing, I would say both tiers are very powerful, even if one assumes Reawakened is restricted to magical effects. You would need to take the Magical Fortification trait (advantage on saves for one ability score) three times for the same effect. There are no other traits that provide protection against magical incapacitated, stunned, or unconscious. There is only the Origin feat: Free Sword Mercenary's Will (also from Grim Hollow), which provides advantage on all saves against conditions.
I would just like to point out that the second part does not mention that it only applies to magical effects. Therefore, it does not, and there is no reason to think it does.
TBH I find this very poorly designed / worded. For instance Paralyzed also inflicts the Incapacitated condition, so tier 1 of this ability should give autosuccess against Paralysis spells indirectly via the interaction with Incapacitated. But that's also the case for Stunned. Stunned give the Incapacitated condition, thus tier 1 doesn't need to specify it as a separate condition it give autosuccess on. Petrified also gives the Incapacitated condition, so again tier 1 should give autosuccess against becoming petrified, though many petrification effect (e.g. Medusa's gaze) require two failed saves to become Petrified, the first only only causes Restrained, thus it is unclear to me whether this feat gives an autosuccess on the first save - since part of that effect is to cause Petrified on the second save thus that same magical effect does cause incapacitated - or whether it would only apply to the second save since the first save does not cause incapacitated.
The first tier alone IMO gives autosuccess against: paralyzed, stunned, incapacitated, petrified, and sleep-effects. Plus many spells / abilities that combined incapacitated with other conditions such as Hypnotic Pattern and Banishment.
TBH, the second tier seems extremely marginal in terms of improvement over the first tier, it's main benefit is Adv vs fear-effects since most fear effects do not cause incapacitated, and I guess Adv vs domination-charm effects.
That's an interesting point. To take paralysis as an example, I think the most obvious answer is that there is no advantage from tier one against paralysis spells, per se. There are two spells (I can find) that would inflict that condition, and 18 different spells that inflict incapacitated. The tier one trait only affects 'saving throws against magical effects that would give you the Incapacitated, Stunned, or Unconscious conditions'. When you are hit with a spell that inflicts incapacitated, you get a save against it, on which you have advantage. If you fail that save, you do not get a save against the incapacitated condition because it is applied by the paralyzed condition, not the spell. That condition does not give you a save, so there can be no advantage, let alone an auto-success.
I think it would be accurate to view paralysis as a more severe form of something like incapacitated, and that requires stronger protection. As such, it is locked behind tier two, and it does not get an auto-success.
I see now that I mistakenly included petrified, earlier. It is not covered by this trait because it relies only on con saves.
As to the efficacy of the second tier, do not forget that its effect is not limited to saves against spells that apply a certain condition. Tier two is based on int, wis, and cha. That means it works on as many as 133 spells (that I can find). And, well, probably non-magical effects as well. So, coming back to my original question... :)