The spell description for daylight doesn’t actually say how it would interact with a darkness spell of 4th level or higher. Therefore it’s up to the DM how they interact. Personally I would rule that the overlapping area is ambient light conditions.
It doesn't say it in Daylight, it says it in Darkness.
Are you suggesting that the phrase “nonmagical light can’t illuminate it” implies that magical light can illuminate it? I still think this gives DMs a little wiggle room to rule as they see fit.
It's not a suggestion, it's clear. Non-magical light will not illuminate, magical light will. Just like resistances and immunities - it either works or it doesn't. There's no wiggle room. Either a monster is resistant to non-magical attacks or it isn't.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
RAW Darkness dispels Flame Blade when its 10’ bright light radius or when its 20’ dim radius overlaps the Darkness radius?
Darkness doesn’t dispel Create Bonfire because Create Bonfire doesn’t create an area of light (at least it doesn’t in its description, do you assume it illuminates an area a normal bonfire would create)?
Trirhabda- your wasting your time with some of these guys. They would have you believe Darkness dispels any spell that accidentally creates light if it's level 2 or less. I guess my Druid should stop preparing Flaming Sphere cause you know giant floating balls of fire are scared of some shadows...oi vei.
I’m just try to understand what RAW is and if it makes sense to me, I rule that way. If it doesn’t make sense to me, I try to come up with a house rule that doesn’t have a lot of unintended consequences.
I was thinking that RAW, Darkness only dispels spell Light type spells, Light, Dancing Lights, etc. but the wording doesn’t support that interpretation. However, I’m not fully comfortable with ruling that way. It doesn’t seem consistent to me that Darkness would dispel Fire/Flame spells that describe an area of light while ones that don’t say they shed light in an area would not be dispelled.
I’m still thinking through the problem. Thank you for all your input.
One thing I realized from this is why Darkness is a concentration spell while Daylight isn’t.
I just try to understand what RAW is and if it makes sense to me, I rule that way. If it doesn’t make sense to me, I try to come up with a house rule that doesn’t have a lot of unintended consequences.
I was thinking that RAW, Darkness only dispels spell Light type spells, Light, Dancing Lights, etc. but the wording doesn’t support that interpretation. However, I’m not fully comfortable with ruling that way. It doesn’t seem consistent to me that Darkness would dispel Fire/Flame spells that describe an area of light while ones that don’t say they shed light in an area would not be dispelled.
I’m still thinking through the problem. Thank you for all your input.
One thing I realized from this is why Darkness is a concentration spell while Daylight isn’t.
on the spell description it say " If any of this spell's area overlaps with an area of light created by a spell of 2nd level or lower, the spell that created the light is dispelled" that mean not only the daylight spell can be ended (or dispelled) but also and that my point of confusion, any area of light created by a magical source of 3rd lvl or more can be dispelled...
On the case that you were saying if the spell that create that area is higher of 2nd lvl the darkness couldn't shield the spell no mere wich lvl you cast it...
The same happen with daylight it say "If any of this spell's area overlaps with an area of darkness created by a spell of 3rd level or lower, the spell that created the darkness is dispelled." that mean if there is a darkness created by a magical sourse of lvl 4th or higher the spell can't iluminate on that area no matter the lvl you cast it....
Earlier I said that the wording “nonmagical light can’t illuminate it” merely implies that magical light can illuminate it and that gives a DM a little wiggle room. Here is an example to explain what I meant.
Darkness cast at 2nd level would dispel Moonbeam cast at 2nd level when their illuminated areas overlap.
Darkness cast at 2nd level would not dispel Moonbeam cast at 3rd level. Moonbeam creates magical light so it would illuminate the area of overlap.
Darkness cast at 4th level would not dispel Moonbeam cast at 3rd level. Moonbeam’s light is magical but now the Darkness spell is a higher level than Moonbeam. Since the Darkness spell description never says “magical light from a 3rd level or greater spell will always illuminate the darkness area, that allows a DM to decide this case either way. Personally I would rule that the higher level spell wins.
And then you have to figure out in the case of ties.
If you could cast it at higher level it doesn't matter, the spell specifically says it will dispel light creating spells of 2nd level or lower. You could cast a lvl 9 Darkness and it would still NOT dispel or block out a Daylight spell or a Fire Shield spell or whatever. Since it will not dispel them and they are magical light and will illuminate the area. Darkness will either dispel the magical light or it won't. If it doesn't dispel the light, the area is illuminated.
Why you trying so hard to make it complicated?
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
You are asserting something the spell description only implies. Your interpretation is certainly acceptable and perhaps the most popular interpretation but the spell description never actually says that light created spells of 3rd level or greater always illuminate the area created by a Darkness spell. A DM that decides that sometimes they do and sometimes they don’t is not changing anything in the spell description. DMs get to make a lot of decisions that are not explicitly spelled out in the rule books. If you were my DM, I would have no problem with your interpretation.
If you could cast it at higher level it doesn't matter, the spell specifically says it will dispel light creating spells of 2nd level or lower. You could cast a lvl 9 Darkness and it would still NOT dispel or block out a Daylight spell or a Fire Shield spell or whatever. Since it will not dispel them and they are magical light and will illuminate the area. Darkness will either dispel the magical light or it won't. If it doesn't dispel the light, the area is illuminated.
Why you trying so hard to make it complicated?
With fire Shield ok... but whit Daylight it say "If any of this spell's area overlaps with an area of darkness created by a spell of 3rd level or lower, the spell that created the darkness is dispelled." that mean if you cast daylight over Darkness lvl 4 it not work because will not will not dispel it and they are magical darkness and will not illuminate the area. Daylight will either dispel the magical darkness or won't. If it doesn't dispel the darkness, the area is not illuminated.
that is complicated... no body trying to make it that way... is just that 1 thing is dispell a "spell" and another is dispell an "area" and both have a "legal vacuum" which leads to a variety of interpretations...
If you could cast it at higher level it doesn't matter, the spell specifically says it will dispel light creating spells of 2nd level or lower. You could cast a lvl 9 Darkness and it would still NOT dispel or block out a Daylight spell or a Fire Shield spell or whatever. Since it will not dispel them and they are magical light and will illuminate the area. Darkness will either dispel the magical light or it won't. If it doesn't dispel the light, the area is illuminated.
Why you trying so hard to make it complicated?
and both have a "legal vacuum" which leads to a variety of interpretations...
Go back and read the thread =)
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Okay, last statement on this thread: Daylight can't dispel a 9th level Darkness, but it illuminates it.
Darkness has a duration and if Daylight is cast, the overlapping area is illuminated but if Daylight's duration ends before Darkness's, the Darkness remains without another spell slot.
Easy fix to this.... Just make a new spell called Eternal Darkness and cast it at level 9 that can only be cancelled out by a DayLight spell of equal level.
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That's why you can't upcast Darkness to dispel stuff, it would become unbalancing.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
It's not a suggestion, it's clear. Non-magical light will not illuminate, magical light will. Just like resistances and immunities - it either works or it doesn't. There's no wiggle room. Either a monster is resistant to non-magical attacks or it isn't.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
RAW Darkness dispels Flame Blade when its 10’ bright light radius or when its 20’ dim radius overlaps the Darkness radius?
Darkness doesn’t dispel Create Bonfire because Create Bonfire doesn’t create an area of light (at least it doesn’t in its description, do you assume it illuminates an area a normal bonfire would create)?
Trirhabda- your wasting your time with some of these guys. They would have you believe Darkness dispels any spell that accidentally creates light if it's level 2 or less. I guess my Druid should stop preparing Flaming Sphere cause you know giant floating balls of fire are scared of some shadows...oi vei.
"If any of this spell's area overlaps with an area of light created by a spell of 2nd level or lower, the spell that created the light is dispelled."
Interpret.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I’m just try to understand what RAW is and if it makes sense to me, I rule that way. If it doesn’t make sense to me, I try to come up with a house rule that doesn’t have a lot of unintended consequences.
I was thinking that RAW, Darkness only dispels spell Light type spells, Light, Dancing Lights, etc. but the wording doesn’t support that interpretation. However, I’m not fully comfortable with ruling that way. It doesn’t seem consistent to me that Darkness would dispel Fire/Flame spells that describe an area of light while ones that don’t say they shed light in an area would not be dispelled.
I’m still thinking through the problem. Thank you for all your input.
One thing I realized from this is why Darkness is a concentration spell while Daylight isn’t.
on the spell description it say " If any of this spell's area overlaps with an area of light created by a spell of 2nd level or lower, the spell that created the light is dispelled" that mean not only the daylight spell can be ended (or dispelled) but also and that my point of confusion, any area of light created by a magical source of 3rd lvl or more can be dispelled...
On the case that you were saying if the spell that create that area is higher of 2nd lvl the darkness couldn't shield the spell no mere wich lvl you cast it...
The same happen with daylight it say "If any of this spell's area overlaps with an area of darkness created by a spell of 3rd level or lower, the spell that created the darkness is dispelled." that mean if there is a darkness created by a magical sourse of lvl 4th or higher the spell can't iluminate on that area no matter the lvl you cast it....
Earlier I said that the wording “nonmagical light can’t illuminate it” merely implies that magical light can illuminate it and that gives a DM a little wiggle room. Here is an example to explain what I meant.
Darkness cast at 2nd level would dispel Moonbeam cast at 2nd level when their illuminated areas overlap.
Darkness cast at 2nd level would not dispel Moonbeam cast at 3rd level. Moonbeam creates magical light so it would illuminate the area of overlap.
Darkness cast at 4th level would not dispel Moonbeam cast at 3rd level. Moonbeam’s light is magical but now the Darkness spell is a higher level than Moonbeam. Since the Darkness spell description never says “magical light from a 3rd level or greater spell will always illuminate the darkness area, that allows a DM to decide this case either way. Personally I would rule that the higher level spell wins.
And then you have to figure out in the case of ties.
If you could cast it at higher level it doesn't matter, the spell specifically says it will dispel light creating spells of 2nd level or lower. You could cast a lvl 9 Darkness and it would still NOT dispel or block out a Daylight spell or a Fire Shield spell or whatever. Since it will not dispel them and they are magical light and will illuminate the area. Darkness will either dispel the magical light or it won't. If it doesn't dispel the light, the area is illuminated.
Why you trying so hard to make it complicated?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
You are asserting something the spell description only implies. Your interpretation is certainly acceptable and perhaps the most popular interpretation but the spell description never actually says that light created spells of 3rd level or greater always illuminate the area created by a Darkness spell. A DM that decides that sometimes they do and sometimes they don’t is not changing anything in the spell description. DMs get to make a lot of decisions that are not explicitly spelled out in the rule books. If you were my DM, I would have no problem with your interpretation.
With fire Shield ok... but whit Daylight it say "If any of this spell's area overlaps with an area of darkness created by a spell of 3rd level or lower, the spell that created the darkness is dispelled." that mean if you cast daylight over Darkness lvl 4 it not work because will not will not dispel it and they are magical darkness and will not illuminate the area. Daylight will either dispel the magical darkness or won't. If it doesn't dispel the darkness, the area is not illuminated.
that is complicated... no body trying to make it that way... is just that 1 thing is dispell a "spell" and another is dispell an "area" and both have a "legal vacuum" which leads to a variety of interpretations...
This thread has Undead Fortitude.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Go back and read the thread =)
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Okay, last statement on this thread: Daylight can't dispel a 9th level Darkness, but it illuminates it.
Darkness has a duration and if Daylight is cast, the overlapping area is illuminated but if Daylight's duration ends before Darkness's, the Darkness remains without another spell slot.
Easy fix to this.... Just make a new spell called Eternal Darkness and cast it at level 9 that can only be cancelled out by a DayLight spell of equal level.