The mechanics of the Sentinel feat says that it drops the movement of a target to zero on an AoO hit. This combined with the fact that an AoO can hit without the attacker moving into range after the target is more than 5ft away implies that provoking an AoO means dropping your guard before you've moved. So Booming Blade should be able to hit as a reaction because it's range is the same as a melee weapon attack. The only question is whether or not a target should be able to notice the trip-wire effect before it happens.
I'm not saying Wizards of Coast is infallible, but War Caster is in the 5e PH and Booming Blade is not. So I would reason that unless they forgot about it, they probably cross-reference new spells with already-existing feats to make sure it isn't too broken. There isn't a WIS saving throw or anything to make the blow's recipient aware. So even when it isn't used for an AoO I interpret the spell's intent to be punishing rather than deterring voluntary movement. But it can be circumstantial since spellcaster targets may be familiar with it.
But specific to combining it with the War Caster feat, I personally think that if you decide to provoke an opportunity attack by moving without disengaging you should have to move at least 5 feet since you're committing so much to stepping off in a new direction that you're dropping your guard. There may not be many mechanics that take momentum into account but it just feels more realistic that way to me.
The mechanics of the Sentinel feat says that it drops the movement of a target to zero on an AoO hit. This combined with the fact that an AoO can hit without the attacker moving into range after the target is more than 5ft away implies that provoking an AoO means dropping your guard before you've moved. So Booming Blade should be able to hit as a reaction because it's range is the same as a melee weapon attack. The only question is whether or not a target should be able to notice the trip-wire effect before it happens.
I'm not saying Wizards of Coast is infallible, but War Caster is in the 5e PH and Booming Blade is not. So I would reason that unless they forgot about it, they probably cross-reference new spells with already-existing feats to make sure it isn't too broken. There isn't a WIS saving throw or anything to make the blow's recipient aware. So even when it isn't used for an AoO I interpret the spell's intent to be punishing rather than deterring voluntary movement. But it can be circumstantial since spellcaster targets may be familiar with it.
But specific to combining it with the War Caster feat, I personally think that if you decide to provoke an opportunity attack by moving without disengaging you should have to move at least 5 feet since you're committing so much to stepping off in a new direction that you're dropping your guard. There may not be many mechanics that take momentum into account but it just feels more realistic that way to me.
So do you think that the target automatically incurs the secondary damage of the Booming Blade then since they can't stop their own movement?
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
The mechanics of the Sentinel feat says that it drops the movement of a target to zero on an AoO hit. This combined with the fact that an AoO can hit without the attacker moving into range after the target is more than 5ft away implies that provoking an AoO means dropping your guard before you've moved. So Booming Blade should be able to hit as a reaction because it's range is the same as a melee weapon attack. The only question is whether or not a target should be able to notice the trip-wire effect before it happens.
I'm not saying Wizards of Coast is infallible, but War Caster is in the 5e PH and Booming Blade is not. So I would reason that unless they forgot about it, they probably cross-reference new spells with already-existing feats to make sure it isn't too broken. There isn't a WIS saving throw or anything to make the blow's recipient aware. So even when it isn't used for an AoO I interpret the spell's intent to be punishing rather than deterring voluntary movement. But it can be circumstantial since spellcaster targets may be familiar with it.
But specific to combining it with the War Caster feat, I personally think that if you decide to provoke an opportunity attack by moving without disengaging you should have to move at least 5 feet since you're committing so much to stepping off in a new direction that you're dropping your guard. There may not be many mechanics that take momentum into account but it just feels more realistic that way to me.
So do you think that the target automatically incurs the secondary damage of the Booming Blade then since they can't stop their own movement?
If I'm the DM then I'd say yes. It should automatically apply all of the damage under these specific circumstances. Otherwise I'm letting enemies know too much for my own benefit. I feel like if I do that I'd have do things like tell a character with Lucky the outcome of their roll before they decide to reroll. It's powerful but there's likely only going to be one character in a party with this distinct combination. If a free circumstantial divine smite is all it takes to ruin combat for the rest of the campaign then I'd say that's on me as a DM. Besides they won't necessarily get the chance to do it every combat and sometimes the attack roll will miss anyway.
The momentum argument is irrelevant since Booming Blade requires willing movement to trigger. If the target had intended to stop after getting hit, any additional distance they cover while trying to come to a full stop is accidental.
At the end of the day the DM decides if the monster stops moving or keeps going based on the monster's original reason for fleeing without disengaging, and how the monster would react to suddenly being covered in an aura of noisy energy. There's nothing else to consider.
So do you think that the target automatically incurs the secondary damage of the Booming Blade then since they can't stop their own movement?
If I'm the DM then I'd say yes. It should automatically apply all of the damage under these specific circumstances. Otherwise I'm letting enemies know too much for my own benefit. I feel like if I do that I'd have do things like tell a character with Lucky the outcome of their roll before they decide to reroll. It's powerful but there's likely only going to be one character in a party with this distinct combination. If a free circumstantial divine smite is all it takes to ruin combat for the rest of the campaign then I'd say that's on me as a DM. Besides they won't necessarily get the chance to do it every combat and sometimes the attack roll will miss anyway.
I just want to point out that BB specifically says the target gets sheathed in booming energy. This is not an unnoticeable effect. This is a vibrating bubble that sounds like a small motor. Whether or not they know it will hurt them if they move depends on their INT, but any creature will be able to notice that it did hurt them after the fact.
The momentum argument is irrelevant since Booming Blade requires willing movement to trigger. If the target had intended to stop after getting hit, any additional distance they cover while trying to come to a full stop is accidental.
At the end of the day the DM decides if the monster stops moving or keeps going based on the monster's original reason for fleeing without disengaging, and how the monster would react to suddenly being covered in an aura of noisy energy. There's nothing else to consider.
I agree. I was just pointing out that you can stop immediately and to not unwillingly move 5 feet from the momentum of a single step. So a creature either willingly stops immediately or willingly keeps moving to their destination. They do not unwillingly move 5 feet and either automatically take bonus damage or get to stop 10 feet away without taking damage.
I originally came here to ask a question, saw this post, and wanted to put my two cents in.To me it could go a few different ways. I do like some of the scenarios that have been put here. But personally I see it this way
1. Enemy is using their turn to move out of your space.
2. You are using a reaction to swing at them, with your war caster feat. (which means they are already in motion when the attack hits them)
So they are already moving when and if you hit them with your reaction. So technically booming blade's secondary effect should go off immediately. Yes the enemy can stop if they wanted to, but why would you stop just because you are being swung at. They are trying to leave your range. Sentinel feat is the only feat I know of that makes someone stop when hit. So unless you have that feat as well and force them to stop, why would they.
I looked at this again and thought, maybe a dex save to avoid the secondary damage would round out the rough edges on this unique situation.
Something like:
War caster gets an attack of opportunity and uses booming blade; weapon damage applied, initial damage applied, movement occurs(5'), dex save against spellcasters DC to see if secondary damage applied, failed-secondary damage is applied success-secondary damage is not applied, movement continues
Alternatively save for half damage but I feel like it would be tricky to stick a moving target with a thunder damage shell. Of course, that's all just how I imagine it.
So they are already moving when and if you hit them with your reaction. So technically booming blade's secondary effect should go off immediately. Yes the enemy can stop if they wanted to, but why would you stop just because you are being swung at. They are trying to leave your range.
Momentum is not in the rules. The rules say opportunity attacks take place before the movement. The movement has to be voluntary to trigger booming blade's secondary damage (no automatic without a choice).
I looked at this again and thought, maybe a dex save to avoid the secondary damage would round out the rough edges on this unique situation.
Something like:
War caster gets an attack of opportunity and uses booming blade; weapon damage applied, initial damage applied, movement occurs(5'), dex save against spellcasters DC to see if secondary damage applied, failed-secondary damage is applied success-secondary damage is not applied, movement continues
Alternatively save for half damage but I feel like it would be tricky to stick a moving target with a thunder damage shell. Of course, that's all just how I imagine it.
This is a house rule. We deal in RAW in the rules and game mechanics forum.
I thought we had pretty well worked through this issue before the thread was revived. We even have guidance from Jeremy Crawford on the subject for those folks who look for his input.
No one has raised the significant wording of Booming Blade? It specifies the melee attack is made As part of the actionused to cast this spell...the problem being that the War Caster feat in this scenario pertains to the use of a reaction rather than an action.
Yes the feat allows/specifies the spell must have a casting time of 1 action — but you’re still burning a reaction.
So if you want to get ‘technical’; War Caster allows the spell to be cast but it’s pointless and cannot take effect because it’s not possible to meet the requirement laid out in the spell.
Of course this argument could fall flat based on what you take from the PHB when it describes bonus actions and reactions as types of actions ... so in your game does booming blade’s text refer to the specific ‘action’ or does it refer to the generic ‘action’ that encompasses all actions ie action, bonus action, reaction, legendary, etc
If you rule it as "The target notice the damage and decided to not move further", then this Power is utherly useless and serves no purpose.
It decided to move the moment it moved, and at that moment it get attacked.
No one in their right mind would stop in their track AFTER they get attacked because they tried to move away and be like " oh wait he attacked me, so maybe if i don't move anymore, he will stop, maybe his vision is based on movement..."
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"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
So if you want to get ‘technical’; War Caster allows the spell to be cast but it’s pointless and cannot take effect because it’s not possible to meet the requirement laid out in the spell.
A reaction is in fact a special type of action. Their rules explicitly say so.
If you rule it as "The target notice the damage and decided to not move further", then this Power is utherly useless and serves no purpose.
Double wrong. Preventing a target from moving is a very useful effect, and if that wasn't useful in a specific situation, it still deals additional damage after 5th level.
No one in their right mind would stop in their track AFTER they get attacked because they tried to move away and be like " oh wait he attacked me, so maybe if i don't move anymore, he will stop, maybe his vision is based on movement..."
It's very reasonable for an intelligent creature to hesitate after suddenly being covered in loud magical energy. It's even more reasonable if they recognize the spell or previously suffered its effects.
Okay there has been much debate over if, when leaving 5ft range, the enemy may choose to stay in base contact after being hit or they carry on... to be honest I’m happy with either way and they are both willing movement (willing doesn’t mean informed), the enemy chose to move. That leaves me with two questions.
Firstly, what about when (with Polearm Master & Warcaster) an enemy attempts to enter 5ft, you get an opportunity attack before movement - does that mean, if an enemy may choose, the choice is between staying 10ft away or taking the Booming Blade damage?
Secondly, a more complex question:
a. Attacking with Booming Blade on turn
b. Enemy provokes Opportunity Attack from either entering or leaving 5ft and you use Booming Blade again.
c. If the enemy decides to stay put the enemy should still take the primary Booming Blade damage... I think? (Spell effects cannot stack - so two booming blades cannot be active on a victim simultaneously... However, that depends on what order it resolves.) This is important because if the first Booming Blade’s damage doesn’t resolve before the Opportunity Attack hits then the second Booming Blade will override it and the enemy will only take the damage of the second if it moves or none if it doesn’t.
This has been covered specifically in this thread.
I have reread all of the comments and I cannot see where my second question has been answered (first wasn’t either but I think I have worked that one out). Please could you show me where I missed.
My (second) question though is if you use Booming Blade on your turn will a. the trigger happen when a movement is declared or b. after the movement resolves? (In which case an opportunity attack would override it, as spells do not stack)
They would have to move in order to trigger the opportunity attack in the first place. If they have Booming Blade on them already it will do damage before you get the chance to attack them with your reaction.
I think the idea is they turn to run - leaving themselves open to an attack - but they haven't run yet. They could decide running at that point is a bad idea and stay - putting their guard back up. But the AoO still happened.
I've been wrestling with the implications of this sheathing energy and the term "move," which I realize has specific meaning in DnD. Once the energy has encapsulated the the person, do they take the damage on any movement? Like putting their guard back up? Like using their Dex bonus to AC to evade, dodge, and flinch away from an attack? The description of the cantrip uses "sheathed" rather than "surrounded by." which seems a MUCH tighter margin, to me. I'd argue any single step would def trigger, including the steps taken simply in swinging a sword or adjusting stance to account for a circling foe. That being the case, there are additional implications to the "I'm not going to move, to avoid triggering that boom" choice. You'd lose the AC bonus of Dex vs any attack or of a shield for attacks coming in from your sword side, you'd lose the right to any of the implied mobility in a Dex-based saving throw. In all of those cases, that would mean a willing decision to move (in the vernacular sense of movement, rather than the rule-specific sense of the term move).
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D&D player from B2 (Keep on the Borderlands) thru AD&D2e, then on hiatus until 5e in 2019 Hero System playtester from mid 80s. Also play Shadowrun, Traveller, MERP, FASA Star Trek
Twiitter @JDSoOR Discord JDSoOR#5431 LFG: A Wildemount setting campaign? I already have characters in Greyhawk and Faerun :) But really, I'm not going to say no to anything fun...
It has been clarified that movement like standing up, the somatic components of spells, or swinging your sword do not activate the secondary effect of Booming Blade.
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"Not all those who wander are lost"
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The mechanics of the Sentinel feat says that it drops the movement of a target to zero on an AoO hit. This combined with the fact that an AoO can hit without the attacker moving into range after the target is more than 5ft away implies that provoking an AoO means dropping your guard before you've moved. So Booming Blade should be able to hit as a reaction because it's range is the same as a melee weapon attack. The only question is whether or not a target should be able to notice the trip-wire effect before it happens.
I'm not saying Wizards of Coast is infallible, but War Caster is in the 5e PH and Booming Blade is not. So I would reason that unless they forgot about it, they probably cross-reference new spells with already-existing feats to make sure it isn't too broken. There isn't a WIS saving throw or anything to make the blow's recipient aware. So even when it isn't used for an AoO I interpret the spell's intent to be punishing rather than deterring voluntary movement. But it can be circumstantial since spellcaster targets may be familiar with it.
But specific to combining it with the War Caster feat, I personally think that if you decide to provoke an opportunity attack by moving without disengaging you should have to move at least 5 feet since you're committing so much to stepping off in a new direction that you're dropping your guard. There may not be many mechanics that take momentum into account but it just feels more realistic that way to me.
So do you think that the target automatically incurs the secondary damage of the Booming Blade then since they can't stop their own movement?
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
If I'm the DM then I'd say yes. It should automatically apply all of the damage under these specific circumstances. Otherwise I'm letting enemies know too much for my own benefit. I feel like if I do that I'd have do things like tell a character with Lucky the outcome of their roll before they decide to reroll. It's powerful but there's likely only going to be one character in a party with this distinct combination. If a free circumstantial divine smite is all it takes to ruin combat for the rest of the campaign then I'd say that's on me as a DM. Besides they won't necessarily get the chance to do it every combat and sometimes the attack roll will miss anyway.
The momentum argument is irrelevant since Booming Blade requires willing movement to trigger. If the target had intended to stop after getting hit, any additional distance they cover while trying to come to a full stop is accidental.
At the end of the day the DM decides if the monster stops moving or keeps going based on the monster's original reason for fleeing without disengaging, and how the monster would react to suddenly being covered in an aura of noisy energy. There's nothing else to consider.
I just want to point out that BB specifically says the target gets sheathed in booming energy. This is not an unnoticeable effect. This is a vibrating bubble that sounds like a small motor. Whether or not they know it will hurt them if they move depends on their INT, but any creature will be able to notice that it did hurt them after the fact.
I agree. I was just pointing out that you can stop immediately and to not unwillingly move 5 feet from the momentum of a single step. So a creature either willingly stops immediately or willingly keeps moving to their destination. They do not unwillingly move 5 feet and either automatically take bonus damage or get to stop 10 feet away without taking damage.
I originally came here to ask a question, saw this post, and wanted to put my two cents in.To me it could go a few different ways. I do like some of the scenarios that have been put here. But personally I see it this way
1. Enemy is using their turn to move out of your space.
2. You are using a reaction to swing at them, with your war caster feat. (which means they are already in motion when the attack hits them)
So they are already moving when and if you hit them with your reaction. So technically booming blade's secondary effect should go off immediately. Yes the enemy can stop if they wanted to, but why would you stop just because you are being swung at. They are trying to leave your range. Sentinel feat is the only feat I know of that makes someone stop when hit. So unless you have that feat as well and force them to stop, why would they.
I looked at this again and thought, maybe a dex save to avoid the secondary damage would round out the rough edges on this unique situation.
Something like:
War caster gets an attack of opportunity and uses booming blade; weapon damage applied, initial damage applied, movement occurs(5'), dex save against spellcasters DC to see if secondary damage applied, failed-secondary damage is applied success-secondary damage is not applied, movement continues
Alternatively save for half damage but I feel like it would be tricky to stick a moving target with a thunder damage shell. Of course, that's all just how I imagine it.
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
Momentum is not in the rules. The rules say opportunity attacks take place before the movement. The movement has to be voluntary to trigger booming blade's secondary damage (no automatic without a choice).
This is a house rule. We deal in RAW in the rules and game mechanics forum.
I thought we had pretty well worked through this issue before the thread was revived. We even have guidance from Jeremy Crawford on the subject for those folks who look for his input.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
A fair but sassy point. RAW=DMs discretion it is.
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
No one has raised the significant wording of Booming Blade? It specifies the melee attack is made As part of the action used to cast this spell...the problem being that the War Caster feat in this scenario pertains to the use of a reaction rather than an action.
Yes the feat allows/specifies the spell must have a casting time of 1 action — but you’re still burning a reaction.
So if you want to get ‘technical’; War Caster allows the spell to be cast but it’s pointless and cannot take effect because it’s not possible to meet the requirement laid out in the spell.
Of course this argument could fall flat based on what you take from the PHB when it describes bonus actions and reactions as types of actions ... so in your game does booming blade’s text refer to the specific ‘action’ or does it refer to the generic ‘action’ that encompasses all actions ie action, bonus action, reaction, legendary, etc
If you rule it as "The target notice the damage and decided to not move further", then this Power is utherly useless and serves no purpose.
It decided to move the moment it moved, and at that moment it get attacked.
No one in their right mind would stop in their track AFTER they get attacked because they tried to move away and be like " oh wait he attacked me, so maybe if i don't move anymore, he will stop, maybe his vision is based on movement..."
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Kain de Frostberg- Dark Knight - (Vengeance Pal3/ Hexblade 9), Port Mourn
Kain de Draakberg-Dark Knight lvl8-Avergreen(DitA)
A reaction is in fact a special type of action. Their rules explicitly say so.
Double wrong. Preventing a target from moving is a very useful effect, and if that wasn't useful in a specific situation, it still deals additional damage after 5th level.
It's very reasonable for an intelligent creature to hesitate after suddenly being covered in loud magical energy. It's even more reasonable if they recognize the spell or previously suffered its effects.
Okay there has been much debate over if, when leaving 5ft range, the enemy may choose to stay in base contact after being hit or they carry on... to be honest I’m happy with either way and they are both willing movement (willing doesn’t mean informed), the enemy chose to move. That leaves me with two questions.
Firstly, what about when (with Polearm Master & Warcaster) an enemy attempts to enter 5ft, you get an opportunity attack before movement - does that mean, if an enemy may choose, the choice is between staying 10ft away or taking the Booming Blade damage?
Secondly, a more complex question:
a. Attacking with Booming Blade on turn
b. Enemy provokes Opportunity Attack from either entering or leaving 5ft and you use Booming Blade again.
c. If the enemy decides to stay put the enemy should still take the primary Booming Blade damage... I think? (Spell effects cannot stack - so two booming blades cannot be active on a victim simultaneously... However, that depends on what order it resolves.) This is important because if the first Booming Blade’s damage doesn’t resolve before the Opportunity Attack hits then the second Booming Blade will override it and the enemy will only take the damage of the second if it moves or none if it doesn’t.
This has been covered specifically in this thread.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I have reread all of the comments and I cannot see where my second question has been answered (first wasn’t either but I think I have worked that one out). Please could you show me where I missed.
I am happy with the following order:
Trigger (Movement Declared) -> Opportunity Attack(/Held Action?) -> Attack -> Creature Moves -> Booming Blade effect
My (second) question though is if you use Booming Blade on your turn will a. the trigger happen when a movement is declared or b. after the movement resolves? (In which case an opportunity attack would override it, as spells do not stack)
a. Booming Blade -> End Turn -> Trigger -> Booming Blade effect -> Opportunity Attack -> Booming Blade -> Creature Moves -> Booming Blade effect
b. Booming Blade -> End Turn -> Trigger -> Opportunity Attack -> Booming Blade (overriding first Booming Blade -> Creature Moves -> Booming Blade effect (second one)
They would have to move in order to trigger the opportunity attack in the first place. If they have Booming Blade on them already it will do damage before you get the chance to attack them with your reaction.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
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😅 Hello again, thanks for following me over to the right thread and thank you very much for a concise and logical answer 🙂
I've been wrestling with the implications of this sheathing energy and the term "move," which I realize has specific meaning in DnD. Once the energy has encapsulated the the person, do they take the damage on any movement? Like putting their guard back up? Like using their Dex bonus to AC to evade, dodge, and flinch away from an attack? The description of the cantrip uses "sheathed" rather than "surrounded by." which seems a MUCH tighter margin, to me. I'd argue any single step would def trigger, including the steps taken simply in swinging a sword or adjusting stance to account for a circling foe. That being the case, there are additional implications to the "I'm not going to move, to avoid triggering that boom" choice. You'd lose the AC bonus of Dex vs any attack or of a shield for attacks coming in from your sword side, you'd lose the right to any of the implied mobility in a Dex-based saving throw. In all of those cases, that would mean a willing decision to move (in the vernacular sense of movement, rather than the rule-specific sense of the term move).
D&D player from B2 (Keep on the Borderlands) thru AD&D2e, then on hiatus until 5e in 2019
Hero System playtester from mid 80s. Also play Shadowrun, Traveller, MERP, FASA Star Trek
Twiitter @JDSoOR
Discord JDSoOR#5431
LFG: A Wildemount setting campaign? I already have characters in Greyhawk and Faerun :) But really, I'm not going to say no to anything fun...
It has been clarified that movement like standing up, the somatic components of spells, or swinging your sword do not activate the secondary effect of Booming Blade.
"Not all those who wander are lost"