Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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Hi Everyone,
Question: when does a spell that you can use at distance (fire bolt for example) is used to attack someone next to you. Do you get disadvantage? And if you do, what spells can you use on people next to you?
If it is a ranged spell attack, then you get disadvantage if the target is within 5ft of you. Some spells ask you to make a melee spell attack (both use the same attack modifier though)
Aiming a ranged attack is more difficult when a foe is next to you. When you make a ranged attack with a weapon, a spell, or some other means, you have disadvantage on the attack roll if you are within 5 feet of a hostile creature who can see you and who isn't incapacitated.
The section about ranged attacks in close combat from PHB.
Example of a spell to use in melee range is Shocking Grasp although there are many more.
Per your quoted text, you have disadvantage on rolls if a hostile creature is within 5 ft of you, even if your target is at ranged distance. So, aiming a fire bolt at the event Archer 80 ft away will still be at disadvantage or you have an enemy fighter next to you.
To avoid that, just use spells that require saving throws rather than attack rolls. No disadvantage even in melee range.
I was just assuming single target encounter, but yeah good to note that too.
Thorn Whip is interesting because it has range but it is a melee spell attack. There may be some other spells like it.
Keep in mind also that the cross-bow Xpert feat which allows adjacent ranged attacks without disadvantage also applies to ranged spell attacks.
Where do you get that? I'm not sure how "extensive practice with the crossbow" would apply the crossbow expert's "no penalty for close attacks" benefit to spells.
Cross bow Xpert:
"Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn't impose disadvantage on your ranged attack roils."
It doesn't say "ranged weapon attack" rolls ... so it applies to ALL ranged attack rolls including spells.
And before you start yelling about this being some sort of liberal interpretation never intended by the game designers (blah blah blah)
https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf
"Feats: Crossbow Expert
Is it intentional that the second benefit of Crossbow Expert helps ranged spell attacks? Yes, it’s intentional. When you make a ranged attack roll within 5 feet of an enemy, you normally suffer disadvantage (PHB 195). The second benefit of Crossbow Expert prevents you from suffering that disadvantage, whether or not the ranged attack is with a crossbow.
When designing a feat with a narrow use, we consider adding at least one element that can benefit a character more broadly—a bit of mastery that your character brings from one situation to another. The second benefit of Crossbow Expert is such an element, as is the first benefit of Great Weapon Master. That element in Crossbow Expert shows that some of the character’s expertise with one type of thing—crossbows, in this case—transfers to other things."
So BOTH RAW and RAI ... Crossbow Expert removes disadvantage when making ranged spell attacks when there is an opponent adjacent.
Well, crap. Never in a million years would I have read the feat that way.
Thank you for posting this!
As an update, the new GUNNER feat can also be used to mitigate the disADV on ranged attacks while within 5 feet of an enemy.
what happens if say u were a druid flanking but still within 5ft of a bandit with a poison spray spell that is a range of 10 feet
Poison Spray is a saving throw cantrip. Having a hostile creature within 5' only causes disadvantage on ranged attack rolls. Since Poison spray doesn't involve an attack roll it is unaffected by whether there is an opponent within 5'.
The optional Flanking rule in the Dungeon Masters Guide explicitly says that flanking only grants advantage on melee attacks(it does not say "melee weapon attacks", so melee spell attacks like Shocking Grasp should apply)
Personally, I don't like the idea of someone merely standing beside you causing you to miss, so if they're, say, attacking your ally, but haven't hit you, your spell goes off without disadvantage, and if they hit you, but on their next turn attack your ally or are downed, prone, or incapacitated, they don't give Disadvantage. Is that weird?
I forgor to mention, but if you're using a spell on the target, even if they just hit you, it still doesn't have disadvantage unless the weapon itself causes that. Simply cause it's ranged, but they're close range. It's so much easier to hit them close range than long range. This would NOT apply if multiple enemies were attacking the character trying to use a spell, both within 5 ft, as well, stated before. They hit you. It WOULD still apply if one was fighting your ally, even if both were within 5ft, provided you're attacking the one who is attacking you.
In rules as written, your ally is irrelevant. It's having an enemy in melee range that is the problem, the idea being that either you can't position the weapon to aim properly (if you're using a ranged weapon on a melee range target) or that the enemy is distracting to you by threatening you. Whether or not that really "seems right" from the physics point of view in every case, that's the rule.
I'm sure the OP's question is long answered, but indeed it's nice to have some spells that will work in this situation, either to attack in melee or to attack someone else without having to take disadvantage. Some examples that I like are Catapult and Magic Missile, but also spells like Mind Sliver or Mind Spike, Shocking Grasp, Chill Touch (2024), and Inflict Wounds. There are good AOEs as well, depending on how you feel about hitting friendlies.
Do you like the idea of someone merely standing on the other side of your enemy causing you to hit?
The system is an abstraction and it creates scenarios that might seem logically weird, like a cat familiar on the other side of an enemy bandit giving you advantage on your attack.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
What do you mean, like my ally standing beside the enemy I'm targeting makes it easier for me to hit them? No. Unless they're cut off from dodging from 2 ways, at least. Wall to the left, ally behind them or to the right, maybe. Surrounded fully, yes. Other than that, no.
Rules as written are definitely important, but in this case, I believe they're wrong or in some cases, not specific enough. Unless your wizard is weak to peer pressure (which I have had to DM with) they shouldn't have a problem, unlike Rangers, who should anyway, as they need space to pull back their bow. A caster, unless it's a ritual of some sort, doesn't need to worry about space, provided they can speak, concentrate if needed, and have the materials available, they should be clear to cast freely, UNLESS attacked. Not Rules as written, but kinda common sense (to me).