Hello, I am thinking of using Encode thoughts in a build, but want to know if anyone can think of spells that can work with this spell beside the ones given in the ruling.
What I mean is 'If you cast this spell while concentrating on a spell or an ability that allows you to read or manipulate the thoughts of others (such as detect thoughts or modify memory), you can transform the thoughts or memories you read, rather than your own, into a thought strand.'
So is there any more spells that can work with it or none that can be thought of?
Encode Thoughts is weird , because it doesn't quite let you do anything that you couldn't already do.
Right now, the best way for a wizard to quickly relay to the group what their familiar saw while scouting is to cast Minor Illusion, to create a holographic display. If Encode Thoughts were only worded in a way that let others interact with the thought strand without needing to cast the spell themselves (either anyone, or anyone you designate, or anyone with a pass code, etc.), it would have been able to accomplish something similar in a much more direct and thematic fashion.
As written... you're basically pulling a memory out of your own head, but then you can't store it for very long, and odds are you're the only one on hand with access to the spell to be able to read it so.... ? If you ARE interacting with another spellcaster who can cast the spell, then there's no real reason you couldn't just talk or relay that information in a different fashion, I'm having a hard time imagining the situation where two wizards would sit down to swap encoded thoughts in physical glowing orbs of energy, instead of speaking aloud or using Message.
The spell doesn't really change interrogation encounters at all, because it doesn't let you read any thoughts you weren't already reading otherwise with a different spell, and doesn't really let you pass along what you do read in a way that is significantly different than just reporting your findings out loud. Like yes, you could in theory pull out and modify a memory to fake some evidence... but considering that the court you need to turn that falsified encoded memory into needs to itself be able to cast Encode Thoughts, one wonders why such a magical authority wouldn't just elect to read the defendant's thoughts themselves and avoid the possibility of being hoodwinked by the interloping party? If they have Encode Thoughts themselves, then they fully know how falsifiable it is just as well as the player does, it just doesn't add up.
There's basically two cool situations that a spell like Encode Thoughts brings to mind... the first is that of an imprisoned NPC caster, who encodes a plea for help, hands it to his familiar or a conspirator or somebody, and then has them deliver it to the party starting a quest to come to their aid. But the possibility for this hook is undercut, because 8 hours isn't really long enough to frame that story in. If the duration were Concentration 1 Hour, and the thought strand becomes permanent if you concentrate for the full hour... then it gets much more interesting/versatile. The second cool situation needs the same rule change: my first though when hearing about the spell was "oh sweet, wizard library/diary that's just shelves of stored thoughts!".... but as written, the spell can't do that!
A change to Concentration 1 Hour does close off its ability to be used in conjunction with spells like Detect Thoughts and Modify Memory, but again... it was never really useful for that in the first place, so that doesn't seem like a big loss to me.
honestly i was kinda wondering combinations myself and i thought of something that might be interesting.
a wizard has to study and prepare a spell prior to using it since he sometimes needs to check on how to exactly cast a spell. cantrips however are always fresh in his mind. if you have encode thoughts wouldn`t you be able to switch out your spells within an action? you would just cast encode thought to place the memory of your prepared spell into your mind again therefore preparing the spell.
or am i missing some crucial thing about the spell? also sorry english is not my first language.
I think I would houserule that once your character is 5th level or higher, the duration of this cantrip will last an additional 8 hours. Then at 10th level, it could last another 8 hours on top of that.
As I understand the spell, it conveys information but doesn't replace the experience, it only shows you the idea or memory.
"Preparing a new list of wizard spells requires time spent studying your spellbook and memorizing the incantations and gestures you must make to cast the spell."
That would mean committing the procedure of casting the spell to memory, and the idea behind spell preparation is that you can only hold so many spells in your head at a time.
The way the rules work as written is that you can't circumvent a class limitation unless something explicitly states that you can, and Encode Thoughts does not.
"You pull a memory, an idea, or a message from your mind" indicates that the memory, idea, or message is no longer in your mind. You are not copying it. You are not reading it. You are pulling it FROM your mind. That information is no longer present. It has been transformed into a thought strand. Great way to get around deception checks. The wording does not speak as to what happens to the thought strands at the end of the 8 hours. Do they worm their way back into your head, or have you forgotten your locker combination forever AGAIN?
Casting it while using detect thoughts would be a great low-level way to diffuse international conflict, but the wording is weak there, you are transforming the thoughts and memories you read. Does not pull them from the head.
This is how I would read and interpret the the cantrip. It's not a messaging tool in the broader world, it's a "don't give them the information, and don't get caught deceiving them" tool. Have to be with a party which either splits up a lot or is sneaky and skulk around each other.
I can see two possible interesting uses not mentioned, though one is perhaps a bit of a stretch.
1. Say the caster is a wizard and gets temporary access to another wizard's spellbook. They could examine a spell and use Encode Thought on that memory. Then, they could later scribe the spell from that memory. The use is extremely situational and might be a stretch of what you should be able to accomplish with a cantrip. You would certainly need DM adjudication.
2. The other use is just the more general version of the above. Some piece of information that needs to be remembered EXACTLY to be useful later. Something where a general idea won't cut it. Detailed battle plans, a schematic of some kind. Detailed information on how to bypass security/traps.
You all are missing the greatness of this can trip.
You pull a memory, an idea, or a message from your mind and transform it into a tangible string of glowing energy called a thought strand, which persists for the duration or until you cast this spell again. The thought strand appears in an unoccupied space within 5 feet of you as a Tiny, weightless, semisolid object that can be held and carried like a ribbon. It is otherwise stationary.
if you are not holding it you don't have access to that memory!
example let's say you stole something from the party or otherwise devious then used in code thoughts turning that into a thought strand or another object then placed it in your bag or in a bag of holding or somewhere else! you won't have access to the thought or memory that you stole or did the deed therefore no matter how much anyone tries to pry they get the answer I don't know and comes off truthful
You pull a memory, an idea, or a message from your mind and transform it into a tangible string of glowing energy called a thought strand, which persists for the duration or until you cast this spell again. The thought strand appears in an unoccupied space within 5 feet of you as a Tiny, weightless, semisolid object that can be held and carried like a ribbon. It is otherwise stationary.
If you cast this spell while concentrating on a spell or an ability that allows you to read or manipulate the thoughts of others (such as detect thoughtsor modify memory), you can transform the thoughts or memories you read, rather than your own, into a thought strand.
Casting this spell while holding a thought strand allows you to instantly receive whatever memory, idea, or message the thought strand contains. (Casting detect thoughts on the strand has the same effect.)
It's reading between the lines it says you pull the memory out which I take as its no longer there because you're pulling it out with the spell.
the last part of the spell talks about holding the strand meaning. My interpretationif you don't hold it the memory is not there. how I interpreted it.
It's reading between the lines it says you pull the memory out which I take as its no longer there because you're pulling it out with the spell.
the last part of the spell talks about holding the strand meaning. My interpretationif you don't hold it the memory is not there. how I interpreted it.
Yes, I understand your logic there. However, a general rule of thumb with D&D is that spells and abilities only do what they say they do, and it doesn't say it does that.
My concern with even allowing it as a house rule would be that using it this way is essentially allowing a cantrip to duplicate much of the effect of a 5th-level spell (Modify Memory) which would be a lot for a cantrip.
it also doesn't say that you still retain the memory after it's been transformed into the strand. if it doesn't specifically say that going by your rules then they don't have that thought or memory unless holding the strand!
it also doesn't say that you still retain the memory after it's been transformed into the strand. if it doesn't specifically say that going by your rules then they don't have that thought or memory unless holding the strand!
Well, it also doesn't say that the spell doesn't turn you into a boat until the start of your next turn, but I think we can both agree that it doesn't. Spells list the things they do, not the things they don't do.
it also doesn't say that you still retain the memory after it's been transformed into the strand. if it doesn't specifically say that going by your rules then they don't have that thought or memory unless holding the strand!
Well, it also doesn't say that the spell doesn't turn you into a boat until the start of your next turn, but I think we can both agree that it doesn't. Spells list the things they do, not the things they don't do.
You pull a memory, an idea, or a message from your mind and transform it into a tangible string of glowing energy called a thought strand
it's right there in the description you pull it from your mind and transform it into a single strand meaning the memory is no longer in your mind!
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Hello, I am thinking of using Encode thoughts in a build, but want to know if anyone can think of spells that can work with this spell beside the ones given in the ruling.
What I mean is 'If you cast this spell while concentrating on a spell or an ability that allows you to read or manipulate the thoughts of others (such as detect thoughts or modify memory), you can transform the thoughts or memories you read, rather than your own, into a thought strand.'
So is there any more spells that can work with it or none that can be thought of?
I was thinking Dream but I think that depends on the DM
Encode Thoughts is weird , because it doesn't quite let you do anything that you couldn't already do.
Right now, the best way for a wizard to quickly relay to the group what their familiar saw while scouting is to cast Minor Illusion, to create a holographic display. If Encode Thoughts were only worded in a way that let others interact with the thought strand without needing to cast the spell themselves (either anyone, or anyone you designate, or anyone with a pass code, etc.), it would have been able to accomplish something similar in a much more direct and thematic fashion.
As written... you're basically pulling a memory out of your own head, but then you can't store it for very long, and odds are you're the only one on hand with access to the spell to be able to read it so.... ? If you ARE interacting with another spellcaster who can cast the spell, then there's no real reason you couldn't just talk or relay that information in a different fashion, I'm having a hard time imagining the situation where two wizards would sit down to swap encoded thoughts in physical glowing orbs of energy, instead of speaking aloud or using Message.
The spell doesn't really change interrogation encounters at all, because it doesn't let you read any thoughts you weren't already reading otherwise with a different spell, and doesn't really let you pass along what you do read in a way that is significantly different than just reporting your findings out loud. Like yes, you could in theory pull out and modify a memory to fake some evidence... but considering that the court you need to turn that falsified encoded memory into needs to itself be able to cast Encode Thoughts, one wonders why such a magical authority wouldn't just elect to read the defendant's thoughts themselves and avoid the possibility of being hoodwinked by the interloping party? If they have Encode Thoughts themselves, then they fully know how falsifiable it is just as well as the player does, it just doesn't add up.
There's basically two cool situations that a spell like Encode Thoughts brings to mind... the first is that of an imprisoned NPC caster, who encodes a plea for help, hands it to his familiar or a conspirator or somebody, and then has them deliver it to the party starting a quest to come to their aid. But the possibility for this hook is undercut, because 8 hours isn't really long enough to frame that story in. If the duration were Concentration 1 Hour, and the thought strand becomes permanent if you concentrate for the full hour... then it gets much more interesting/versatile. The second cool situation needs the same rule change: my first though when hearing about the spell was "oh sweet, wizard library/diary that's just shelves of stored thoughts!".... but as written, the spell can't do that!
A change to Concentration 1 Hour does close off its ability to be used in conjunction with spells like Detect Thoughts and Modify Memory, but again... it was never really useful for that in the first place, so that doesn't seem like a big loss to me.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
honestly i was kinda wondering combinations myself and i thought of something that might be interesting.
a wizard has to study and prepare a spell prior to using it since he sometimes needs to check on how to exactly cast a spell. cantrips however are always fresh in his mind. if you have encode thoughts wouldn`t you be able to switch out your spells within an action? you would just cast encode thought to place the memory of your prepared spell into your mind again therefore preparing the spell.
or am i missing some crucial thing about the spell? also sorry english is not my first language.
I think I would houserule that once your character is 5th level or higher, the duration of this cantrip will last an additional 8 hours. Then at 10th level, it could last another 8 hours on top of that.
Honestly, I would give it a duration of "until dispelled"
Makes it a little bit of a liability to have them floating around.
As I understand the spell, it conveys information but doesn't replace the experience, it only shows you the idea or memory.
"Preparing a new list of wizard spells requires time spent studying your spellbook and memorizing the incantations and gestures you must make to cast the spell."
That would mean committing the procedure of casting the spell to memory, and the idea behind spell preparation is that you can only hold so many spells in your head at a time.
The way the rules work as written is that you can't circumvent a class limitation unless something explicitly states that you can, and Encode Thoughts does not.
"You pull a memory, an idea, or a message from your mind" indicates that the memory, idea, or message is no longer in your mind. You are not copying it. You are not reading it. You are pulling it FROM your mind. That information is no longer present. It has been transformed into a thought strand. Great way to get around deception checks. The wording does not speak as to what happens to the thought strands at the end of the 8 hours. Do they worm their way back into your head, or have you forgotten your locker combination forever AGAIN?
Casting it while using detect thoughts would be a great low-level way to diffuse international conflict, but the wording is weak there, you are transforming the thoughts and memories you read. Does not pull them from the head.
This is how I would read and interpret the the cantrip. It's not a messaging tool in the broader world, it's a "don't give them the information, and don't get caught deceiving them" tool. Have to be with a party which either splits up a lot or is sneaky and skulk around each other.
Encode Thoughts + Galder's Speedy Courier, can make this cantrip much more useful.
I can't think of anything that encode thoughts does that writing on a piece of paper doesn't also do...
I can see two possible interesting uses not mentioned, though one is perhaps a bit of a stretch.
1. Say the caster is a wizard and gets temporary access to another wizard's spellbook. They could examine a spell and use Encode Thought on that memory. Then, they could later scribe the spell from that memory. The use is extremely situational and might be a stretch of what you should be able to accomplish with a cantrip. You would certainly need DM adjudication.
2. The other use is just the more general version of the above. Some piece of information that needs to be remembered EXACTLY to be useful later. Something where a general idea won't cut it. Detailed battle plans, a schematic of some kind. Detailed information on how to bypass security/traps.
You all are missing the greatness of this can trip.
You pull a memory, an idea, or a message from your mind and transform it into a tangible string of glowing energy called a thought strand, which persists for the duration or until you cast this spell again. The thought strand appears in an unoccupied space within 5 feet of you as a Tiny, weightless, semisolid object that can be held and carried like a ribbon. It is otherwise stationary.
if you are not holding it you don't have access to that memory!
example let's say you stole something from the party or otherwise devious then used in code thoughts turning that into a thought strand or another object then placed it in your bag or in a bag of holding or somewhere else! you won't have access to the thought or memory that you stole or did the deed therefore no matter how much anyone tries to pry they get the answer I don't know and comes off truthful
The spell does not actually say anything like that.
pronouns: he/she/they
Encode Thoughts
0-level (Cantrip) Enchantment
You pull a memory, an idea, or a message from your mind and transform it into a tangible string of glowing energy called a thought strand, which persists for the duration or until you cast this spell again. The thought strand appears in an unoccupied space within 5 feet of you as a Tiny, weightless, semisolid object that can be held and carried like a ribbon. It is otherwise stationary.
If you cast this spell while concentrating on a spell or an ability that allows you to read or manipulate the thoughts of others (such as detect thoughtsor modify memory), you can transform the thoughts or memories you read, rather than your own, into a thought strand.
Casting this spell while holding a thought strand allows you to instantly receive whatever memory, idea, or message the thought strand contains. (Casting detect thoughts on the strand has the same effect.)
It's reading between the lines it says you pull the memory out which I take as its no longer there because you're pulling it out with the spell.
the last part of the spell talks about holding the strand meaning. My interpretationif you don't hold it the memory is not there. how I interpreted it.
Yes, I understand your logic there. However, a general rule of thumb with D&D is that spells and abilities only do what they say they do, and it doesn't say it does that.
My concern with even allowing it as a house rule would be that using it this way is essentially allowing a cantrip to duplicate much of the effect of a 5th-level spell (Modify Memory) which would be a lot for a cantrip.
pronouns: he/she/they
it also doesn't say that you still retain the memory after it's been transformed into the strand. if it doesn't specifically say that going by your rules then they don't have that thought or memory unless holding the strand!
Well, it also doesn't say that the spell doesn't turn you into a boat until the start of your next turn, but I think we can both agree that it doesn't. Spells list the things they do, not the things they don't do.
pronouns: he/she/they
You pull a memory, an idea, or a message from your mind and transform it into a tangible string of glowing energy called a thought strand
it's right there in the description you pull it from your mind and transform it into a single strand meaning the memory is no longer in your mind!