I play a lvl6 monk lvl1 barbarian, and was wondering if I was able to use shields now; Due to the difference in the definition of unarmored defence across the two classes? Do I inherit the second part of the defense offered by barbarian or do I resume use of the monks version?
Technically you get the first class’s AC calculation, not the better of the two, so you can’t use the barbarian’s unarmored defense. But every DM I’ve played with lets players pick which one to use, letting you use a shield.
According to the rules and several sage advice posts, you can actually choose which one to apply.
If you use a shield, then the Monk Unarmored Defence is not applicable, but the Barbarian one is, so you would use that one. In the no-shield situation you can freely choose which one to apply (this is also supported by DDB's AC calculation system).
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
According to the rules and several sage advice posts, you can actually choose which one to apply.
If you use a shield, then the Monk Unarmored Defence is not applicable, but the Barbarian one is, so you would use that one. In the no-shield situation you can freely choose which one to apply (this is also supported by DDB's AC calculation system).
This is the generic rule that applies to most multiple AC calculation sources. But the multiclassing rules specifically state that the unarmored defense of monk and barbarian can only be gotten once. So you can only use the first one you get.
DDB character sheet applying the better one is a bug that will eventually get patched out. DDB also applies the monk's unarmored defense and unarmored movement when a shield is equipped, but that is also a bug and not the rule.
According to the rules and several sage advice posts, you can actually choose which one to apply.
If you use a shield, then the Monk Unarmored Defence is not applicable, but the Barbarian one is, so you would use that one. In the no-shield situation you can freely choose which one to apply (this is also supported by DDB's AC calculation system).
This is the generic rule that applies to most multiple AC calculation sources. But the multiclassing rules specifically state that the unarmored defense of monk and barbarian can only be gotten once. So you can only use the first one you get.
DDB character sheet applying the better one is a bug that will eventually get patched out. DDB also applies the monk's unarmored defense and unarmored movement when a shield is equipped, but that is also a bug and not the rule.
Oh, seems I missed that bit!
Thank you DxJxC, happy to be corrected :)
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Hmm, I just assumed the rule was so you couldn't have both active simultaneously, I didn't realize RAW you could have the first one you got, although I'd be totally on board with house ruling and saying you can pick which one like with the other AC calculations.
If a monk to uses a shield they also lose all their Martial Arts benefits:
You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk weapons and you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a SHIELD: (unarmed finesse, unarmed damage, monk weapon damage, your unarmed strike as a bonus attack)
The concern is not just the shield, but also which ability score modifier you add to your AC. Monk gets to add Dex & Wis modifiers to AC, but no shield. Barbarians add Dex & Con modifiers to AC, and have the option to use the shield. You'll have to choose one or the other.
If you choose to use the shield, you'll be using the barbarian method of AC calculation.
However! You cannot gain any of the combat benefits of the monk's martial arts abilities while wearing a shield. PHB, pg 78, under the Martial Arts heading, "You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk weapons and you aren't wearing armor or wielding a shield..."
So the +2 AC for that shield negates your ability to use your Dex modifier for attack rolls instead of Str. It negates your special monk weapon damage scaling. It negates your ability to use a bonus action for an unarmed strike or for a Flurry of Blows. It negates your increased monk movement speed.
That's an awful lot to give up just for a measly +2 AC.
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Tayn of Darkwood. Lvl 10 human Life Cleric of Lathander. Retired.
Ikram Sahir ibn Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad, Second Son of the House of Ra'ad, Defender of the Burning Sands. Lvl 9 Brass Dragonborn Sorcerer + Greater Fire Elemental Devil.
Viktor Gavriil. Lvl 20 White Dragonborn Grave Cleric, of Kurgan the God of Death.
The concern is not just the shield, but also which ability score modifier you add to your AC. Monk gets to add Dex & Wis modifiers to AC, but no shield. Barbarians add Dex & Con modifiers to AC, and have the option to use the shield. You'll have to choose one or the other.
If you choose to use the shield, you'll be using the barbarian method of AC calculation.
However! You cannot gain any of the combat benefits of the monk's martial arts abilities while wearing a shield. PHB, pg 78, under the Martial Arts heading, "You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk weapons and you aren't wearing armor or wielding a shield..."
So the +2 AC for that shield negates your ability to use your Dex modifier for attack rolls instead of Str. It negates your special monk weapon damage scaling. It negates your ability to use a bonus action for an unarmed strike or for a Flurry of Blows. It negates your increased monk movement speed.
That's an awful lot to give up just for a measly +2 AC.
While the analysis is correct, it is not how the rules intend this to work, since if you already have the Unarmored Defence feature you cannot obtain it again from another class, as correctly pointed out above by DxJxC:
According to the rules and several sage advice posts, you can actually choose which one to apply.
If you use a shield, then the Monk Unarmored Defence is not applicable, but the Barbarian one is, so you would use that one. In the no-shield situation you can freely choose which one to apply (this is also supported by DDB's AC calculation system).
This is the generic rule that applies to most multiple AC calculation sources. But the multiclassing rules specifically state that the unarmored defense of monk and barbarian can only be gotten once. So you can only use the first one you get.
DDB character sheet applying the better one is a bug that will eventually get patched out. DDB also applies the monk's unarmored defense and unarmored movement when a shield is equipped, but that is also a bug and not the rule.
I play a lvl6 monk lvl1 barbarian, and was wondering if I was able to use shields now; Due to the difference in the definition of unarmored defence across the two classes? Do I inherit the second part of the defense offered by barbarian or do I resume use of the monks version?
Technically you get the first class’s AC calculation, not the better of the two, so you can’t use the barbarian’s unarmored defense. But every DM I’ve played with lets players pick which one to use, letting you use a shield.
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Awesome thanks that's helpful I will discuss with my DM.
According to the rules and several sage advice posts, you can actually choose which one to apply.
If you use a shield, then the Monk Unarmored Defence is not applicable, but the Barbarian one is, so you would use that one. In the no-shield situation you can freely choose which one to apply (this is also supported by DDB's AC calculation system).
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
This is the generic rule that applies to most multiple AC calculation sources. But the multiclassing rules specifically state that the unarmored defense of monk and barbarian can only be gotten once. So you can only use the first one you get.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/customization-options#ClassFeatures
DDB character sheet applying the better one is a bug that will eventually get patched out. DDB also applies the monk's unarmored defense and unarmored movement when a shield is equipped, but that is also a bug and not the rule.
Oh, seems I missed that bit!
Thank you DxJxC, happy to be corrected :)
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Hmm, I just assumed the rule was so you couldn't have both active simultaneously, I didn't realize RAW you could have the first one you got, although I'd be totally on board with house ruling and saying you can pick which one like with the other AC calculations.
If a monk to uses a shield they also lose all their Martial Arts benefits:
You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk weapons and you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a SHIELD: (unarmed finesse, unarmed damage, monk weapon damage, your unarmed strike as a bonus attack)
As Jeremiah pointed out, a shield prevents many monk abilities from functioning, so you'd essentially be giving up your 6 levels of monk to use it.
The concern is not just the shield, but also which ability score modifier you add to your AC. Monk gets to add Dex & Wis modifiers to AC, but no shield. Barbarians add Dex & Con modifiers to AC, and have the option to use the shield. You'll have to choose one or the other.
If you choose to use the shield, you'll be using the barbarian method of AC calculation.
However! You cannot gain any of the combat benefits of the monk's martial arts abilities while wearing a shield. PHB, pg 78, under the Martial Arts heading, "You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk weapons and you aren't wearing armor or wielding a shield..."
So the +2 AC for that shield negates your ability to use your Dex modifier for attack rolls instead of Str. It negates your special monk weapon damage scaling. It negates your ability to use a bonus action for an unarmed strike or for a Flurry of Blows. It negates your increased monk movement speed.
That's an awful lot to give up just for a measly +2 AC.
Tayn of Darkwood. Lvl 10 human Life Cleric of Lathander. Retired.
Ikram Sahir ibn Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad, Second Son of the House of Ra'ad, Defender of the Burning Sands. Lvl 9 Brass Dragonborn Sorcerer + Greater Fire Elemental Devil.
Viktor Gavriil. Lvl 20 White Dragonborn Grave Cleric, of Kurgan the God of Death.
Anzio Faro. Lvl 5 Prot. Aasimar Light Cleric.
While the analysis is correct, it is not how the rules intend this to work, since if you already have the Unarmored Defence feature you cannot obtain it again from another class, as correctly pointed out above by DxJxC:
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games