So I have a question, say the caster has a tiny familiar like a spider that usually just hangs out inside a normal backpack or pouch or something like that. Would that then preclude another creature from coming along?
A creature is a creature, regardless of size. That's why e.g. if you cast Invisibility on yourself with a familiar in your pocket, the familiar is still visible.
So I have a question, say the caster has a tiny familiar like a spider that usually just hangs out inside a normal backpack or pouch or something like that. Would that then preclude another creature from coming along?
A creature is a creature, regardless of size. That's why e.g. if you cast Invisibility on yourself with a familiar in your pocket, the familiar is still visible.
Hmmm ... the invisibility spell says "Anything that the target is wearing or carrying is invisible as long as it is on the target's person."
That sentence does not limit what the target is wearing or carrying to objects and as far as I know there isn't such a limitation though I could be mistaken. So, personally, in a game I was running, I'd rule that for a wizard who casts invisibility on themselves with their familiar being carried in their pocket, the familiar would also be invisible until it was no longer being carried.
I'd probably even allow one character to carry another and have both be invisible as long as the one character continues to be carried by the other.
In addition, another aspect that may differ in interpretation is that "anything the target is wearing or carrying IS invisible" not "becomes invisible". I implicitly interpret this to mean that anything the target is wearing or carrying when the spell is cast becomes invisible but anything an invisible creature picks up later does not become invisible. I've seen DMs ruling both ways on this one too.
When game elements target you or one creature, it doesn't affect other creature, even if you happen to carry them on your person, or bag etc... The only way it would is if it's dead as it'd be an object rather than a creature.
Hmmm ... the invisibility spell says "Anything that the target is wearing or carrying is invisible as long as it is on the target's person."
That sentence does not limit what the target is wearing or carrying to objects and as far as I know there isn't such a limitation though I could be mistaken. So, personally, in a game I was running, I'd rule that for a wizard who casts invisibility on themselves with their familiar being carried in their pocket, the familiar would also be invisible until it was no longer being carried.
I'd probably even allow one character to carry another and have both be invisible as long as the one character continues to be carried by the other.
Well, kudoes for being consistent - either carried creatures are affected or they aren't, so the spell has to affect a carried creature whether it's a familiar in a pocket, a mount riding you, or a grappled creature hoisted into the air.
However, Plaguescarred is correct - the core issue is rendering these SAC rulings consistent:
So we need Misty Step to affect objects without saying so, but we need Fireball to not damage carried objects. That's quite tricky.
An additional issue in this particular case is that Invisibility's scaling is already to target additional creatures, so your interpretation amounts to scaling the spell up based mostly on the target's carrying capacity (you could cast the spell on an elephant and usually render the entire party invisible without upcasting, defeating the purpose of upcasting).
Any DM can rule however they want on anything, but the "consensus" we use as the default RAW is that because "anything" in Invisibility's text is ambiguous and it's more similar to Misty Step than Fireball, it means "any object".
Bags of holding and such. -- Whatever is inside moves with it be it coins or creatures. How long they live inside it not my problem. its theirs.
Teleporting in any form. -- What ever the caster has on them including, creatures in pockets and backpacks, up to their encumbrance limit. This could also include any carried unconscious character. Normal encumbrance for each.
As for unconscious beings. No they do not get the chance at not going. They do not get a chance to resist a physical attack so why do they automatically get the chance to resist going with the caster?
As for conscious beings. Yes they get the chance to resist being grappled picked up and teleported or DD away. Normally a strength check to escape just like in any other grapple move. Otherwise to keep the bad guy from taking the damsel away I just have to cast sleep on her and then she could never be moved.
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A creature is a creature, regardless of size. That's why e.g. if you cast Invisibility on yourself with a familiar in your pocket, the familiar is still visible.
Hmmm ... the invisibility spell says "Anything that the target is wearing or carrying is invisible as long as it is on the target's person."
That sentence does not limit what the target is wearing or carrying to objects and as far as I know there isn't such a limitation though I could be mistaken. So, personally, in a game I was running, I'd rule that for a wizard who casts invisibility on themselves with their familiar being carried in their pocket, the familiar would also be invisible until it was no longer being carried.
I'd probably even allow one character to carry another and have both be invisible as long as the one character continues to be carried by the other.
In addition, another aspect that may differ in interpretation is that "anything the target is wearing or carrying IS invisible" not "becomes invisible". I implicitly interpret this to mean that anything the target is wearing or carrying when the spell is cast becomes invisible but anything an invisible creature picks up later does not become invisible. I've seen DMs ruling both ways on this one too.
When game elements target you or one creature, it doesn't affect other creature, even if you happen to carry them on your person, or bag etc... The only way it would is if it's dead as it'd be an object rather than a creature.
Well, kudoes for being consistent - either carried creatures are affected or they aren't, so the spell has to affect a carried creature whether it's a familiar in a pocket, a mount riding you, or a grappled creature hoisted into the air.
However, Plaguescarred is correct - the core issue is rendering these SAC rulings consistent:
Misty Step doesn’t say the caster can bring worn or carried equipment with them. Are they intended to leave everything, including their clothes, behind? No, the caster’s worn and carried equipment are intended to go with them. (This is why when you use Dimension Door to carry along a second creature in addition to yourself, that creature's carried objects are assumed to teleport with you.)
Some spells target a creature. Some others target objects too. Does this mean that I can’t attack [an object] with eldritch blast? The target specifications (creature, object, or something else) in spells are intentional.
So we need Misty Step to affect objects without saying so, but we need Fireball to not damage carried objects. That's quite tricky.
An additional issue in this particular case is that Invisibility's scaling is already to target additional creatures, so your interpretation amounts to scaling the spell up based mostly on the target's carrying capacity (you could cast the spell on an elephant and usually render the entire party invisible without upcasting, defeating the purpose of upcasting).
Any DM can rule however they want on anything, but the "consensus" we use as the default RAW is that because "anything" in Invisibility's text is ambiguous and it's more similar to Misty Step than Fireball, it means "any object".
as I rule it....
Bags of holding and such. -- Whatever is inside moves with it be it coins or creatures. How long they live inside it not my problem. its theirs.
Teleporting in any form. -- What ever the caster has on them including, creatures in pockets and backpacks, up to their encumbrance limit. This could also include any carried unconscious character. Normal encumbrance for each.
As for unconscious beings. No they do not get the chance at not going. They do not get a chance to resist a physical attack so why do they automatically get the chance to resist going with the caster?
As for conscious beings. Yes they get the chance to resist being grappled picked up and teleported or DD away. Normally a strength check to escape just like in any other grapple move. Otherwise to keep the bad guy from taking the damsel away I just have to cast sleep on her and then she could never be moved.