Sooo I have been looking at this and a situation came up in a game I ran. To set a simple scene. Rouge attacks Monk rouge has sneak attack on the monk due to allies nearby. However misses and the Monk redirects the attack to the ally. The monk also happens to have their own ally near by. Its a brawl of sorts.
Now the question I have is. The redirected attack does it benefit from the sneak attack damage or just the weapon damage by it'self?
I couldnt find anything in the forums about ti but may have also just over looked it.
The rogue's Sneak Attack has the following wording:
"Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack" (emphasis mine).
The Drunken Master's Redirect Attack makes an attack that misses you instead hit another creature within 5 feet from you (aside from the attacker).
Assuming the new target still qualifies for sneak attack (Advantage on attack, or ally of the rogue within 5 feet of the new target, etc), it is still the rogue's choice if he will apply sneak attack damage, which he has the option to do ("can"), when he confirms a hit.
It's perfectly acceptable for the rogue to still go ahead for sneak attack if the new target is another enemy, or withhold it if it's his ally.
Thanks it does. I just wanted to make sure before tossing them into an arena where this situation may come up. So most likely will just be regular damage without sneak. Thanks a ton.
Say instead of having at will ki, you want to max out your so few ki points left.
So, what's better?
Choice A:
Spend 1 ki to Flurry to make an extra attack yourself, for standard monk unarmed strike damage. Which usuallly is not that huge, per attack. it's the number of attacks which compensates. Plus you have to make a to hit roll. Nothing garanteed here.
Choice B:
Stick close to the big bad with super high AC, and wait until another strong enemy, tryintg to protct his boss, misses you, THEN decide to use your ki for a vrry strong auto-hit on the boss.
The excuse that the monster might or might not miss so "it tooo contains a to hit roll" is false and irrelevant: you decide to use the ki point AFTER you already know the monster missed.
So, on the one hand you have a every-round power for "maybe" not all that huge or great extra damage. One the other hand you have a power you can't exactly decide to use each round, but it WILL definitely happen in the fight say every two rounds, especialy in a big boss fight, and when it does you deal GREAT damage with CERTAINTY.
Well, *I* know where I'd spent my ki!
The places where it won't work are:
- Fights vs tons of weak enemies. Mostly irrelevant, just let the caster fireball all these weaklings in one felll swoop.
Don't waste your precious ki on such low challenge fights!
- Fights vs one SOLO boss. Any one of those in which there is a monk becomes super easy because of Stunning Strike spamming. Unless the DM takes that into account and give the boss a ridiculous number of HP and Legendary Resistances, but then, it ain't a "CR appropriate" monster anymore, ain't it? If the DM has to buff a critter SEVERAL levels worth of CR beyond what it should be for a fight vs the party level, just to compensate for ONE ability, that kinda screams "super badly designed power" to me. And if the DM *really* gives all the XP for the ADJUSTED CP or the critter, then you end up with ridiculous situations where the party levels up once or twice per game instead of every 3 or 4 sessions. and iif not, then he's not respecting the design of the CR / EXP system, ergo proof that the balance is bonkers in the first place.
- Fights vs tons of weak enemies with 1 bi boss. Have the caster fireball the weak ones, then it turns into a solo boss fight and Stunning Strike the Boss. Easy fight, same as a 2-stages combo of both of the above.
Then you have the kindd of situations where redirect REALLY shines big time:
- Fights vs one super high AC nearly untouchable boss surrounded by tougher monsters. Especially if the boss somehow always makes you attack him with Disadvantage, too, and his servants are don't hit all that good in the first place and are relatively easy to impose Disadvantage on, but when they do hit ooh boy it hurts a lot. Surprisingly those situations are not all that rare. In those siituatioins, you ki point is worth easily THREE TIMES as much as if you used it up on a flurry.
Then you have the obvious stupid "PC assit" high-level combo:
Rogue says he attacks the monk with a toothpick, ussing STR instead of DEX (lower hit chance) with a weaon he's not proficient in (even lower hit chance) and with his eyes closed (to make double sure to miss). If he hits the monk, her THEN chooses NOT to appply Sneak Attack damage on that attack, thus dealing ridiculously tiny ignorable damage to the monk. But very probably he will miss, thus hit the boss instead, THEN deciding to apply sneak, thus baasicallly entriely bypassing the high defense of the boss for mega damage nearly every round.
Meanwhile the monk is ALSO attacking normally.
Can you say "cheese"?
A class that can burn through its special power to be ungodly powerful for a couple rounds, then so-so-weaksauce the entire rest of the time, is not, to me, balanced in any way. Being able to just "nuke" encounters doesn't scream at all "Those are such brilliantly designed rules!" to me. But hey Wizards are even worse lol. Compared to the casters the Monk ain't OP at all.
Say instead of having at will ki, you want to max out your so few ki points left.
So, what's better?
Choice A:
Spend 1 ki to Flurry to make an extra attack yourself, for standard monk unarmed strike damage. Which usuallly is not that huge, per attack. it's the number of attacks which compensates. Plus you have to make a to hit roll. Nothing garanteed here.
Choice B:
Stick close to the big bad with super high AC, and wait until another strong enemy, tryintg to protct his boss, misses you, THEN decide to use your ki for a vrry strong auto-hit on the boss.
The excuse that the monster might or might not miss so "it tooo contains a to hit roll" is false and irrelevant: you decide to use the ki point AFTER you already know the monster missed.
So, on the one hand you have a every-round power for "maybe" not all that huge or great extra damage. One the other hand you have a power you can't exactly decide to use each round, but it WILL definitely happen in the fight say every two rounds, especialy in a big boss fight, and when it does you deal GREAT damage with CERTAINTY.
Well, *I* know where I'd spent my ki!
The places where it won't work are:
- Fights vs tons of weak enemies. Mostly irrelevant, just let the caster fireball all these weaklings in one felll swoop.
Don't waste your precious ki on such low challenge fights!
- Fights vs one SOLO boss. Any one of those in which there is a monk becomes super easy because of Stunning Strike spamming. Unless the DM takes that into account and give the boss a ridiculous number of HP and Legendary Resistances, but then, it ain't a "CR appropriate" monster anymore, ain't it? If the DM has to buff a critter SEVERAL levels worth of CR beyond what it should be for a fight vs the party level, just to compensate for ONE ability, that kinda screams "super badly designed power" to me. And if the DM *really* gives all the XP for the ADJUSTED CP or the critter, then you end up with ridiculous situations where the party levels up once or twice per game instead of every 3 or 4 sessions. and iif not, then he's not respecting the design of the CR / EXP system, ergo proof that the balance is bonkers in the first place.
- Fights vs tons of weak enemies with 1 bi boss. Have the caster fireball the weak ones, then it turns into a solo boss fight and Stunning Strike the Boss. Easy fight, same as a 2-stages combo of both of the above.
Then you have the kindd of situations where redirect REALLY shines big time:
- Fights vs one super high AC nearly untouchable boss surrounded by tougher monsters. Especially if the boss somehow always makes you attack him with Disadvantage, too, and his servants are don't hit all that good in the first place and are relatively easy to impose Disadvantage on, but when they do hit ooh boy it hurts a lot. Surprisingly those situations are not all that rare. In those siituatioins, you ki point is worth easily THREE TIMES as much as if you used it up on a flurry.
Then you have the obvious stupid "PC assit" high-level combo:
Rogue says he attacks the monk with a toothpick, ussing STR instead of DEX (lower hit chance) with a weaon he's not proficient in (even lower hit chance) and with his eyes closed (to make double sure to miss). If he hits the monk, her THEN chooses NOT to appply Sneak Attack damage on that attack, thus dealing ridiculously tiny ignorable damage to the monk. But very probably he will miss, thus hit the boss instead, THEN deciding to apply sneak, thus baasicallly entriely bypassing the high defense of the boss for mega damage nearly every round.
Meanwhile the monk is ALSO attacking normally.
Can you say "cheese"?
A class that can burn through its special power to be ungodly powerful for a couple rounds, then so-so-weaksauce the entire rest of the time, is not, to me, balanced in any way. Being able to just "nuke" encounters doesn't scream at all "Those are such brilliantly designed rules!" to me. But hey Wizards are even worse lol. Compared to the casters the Monk ain't OP at all.
I think that situation you've described is so niche however that it doesn't make the ability "broken". And it's still limited by ki points (in most games you'll never have a lot more than 10), your Reaction (only once per turn), and the fact that the enemy actually has to miss you (whereas most enemies capable of dealing the crazy damage you describe also have significant to-hit bonuses, so monster B missing enough times to set off the redirect likely isn't happening often. Finally, there are very few big bad boss monsters in the game that have an AC so high that appropriately-leveled players cannot hit them, and most classes have a way of dealing damage to such enemies (whether it's just in rolling with good combat bonuses or getting half damage still on a successful spell save), I'm not totally positive that the one niche in which the redirect is "OP" is ever likely to actually happen.
If you find yourselves up against an un-hittable enemy, you either have a bad DM who thought a boring idea would be really cool, or you have DM that wants to run a non-traditional combat that you have to use creative thinking to get through. In either case, Redirect Attack isn't an exploit, it's working as intended.
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Sooo I have been looking at this and a situation came up in a game I ran. To set a simple scene. Rouge attacks Monk rouge has sneak attack on the monk due to allies nearby. However misses and the Monk redirects the attack to the ally. The monk also happens to have their own ally near by. Its a brawl of sorts.
Now the question I have is. The redirected attack does it benefit from the sneak attack damage or just the weapon damage by it'self?
I couldnt find anything in the forums about ti but may have also just over looked it.
The rogue's Sneak Attack has the following wording:
"Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack" (emphasis mine).
The Drunken Master's Redirect Attack makes an attack that misses you instead hit another creature within 5 feet from you (aside from the attacker).
Assuming the new target still qualifies for sneak attack (Advantage on attack, or ally of the rogue within 5 feet of the new target, etc), it is still the rogue's choice if he will apply sneak attack damage, which he has the option to do ("can"), when he confirms a hit.
It's perfectly acceptable for the rogue to still go ahead for sneak attack if the new target is another enemy, or withhold it if it's his ally.
I hope that helps.
Thanks it does. I just wanted to make sure before tossing them into an arena where this situation may come up. So most likely will just be regular damage without sneak. Thanks a ton.
Redirect Attack is way OP.
Say instead of having at will ki, you want to max out your so few ki points left.
So, what's better?
Choice A:
Spend 1 ki to Flurry to make an extra attack yourself, for standard monk unarmed strike damage. Which usuallly is not that huge, per attack. it's the number of attacks which compensates. Plus you have to make a to hit roll. Nothing garanteed here.
Choice B:
Stick close to the big bad with super high AC, and wait until another strong enemy, tryintg to protct his boss, misses you, THEN decide to use your ki for a vrry strong auto-hit on the boss.
The excuse that the monster might or might not miss so "it tooo contains a to hit roll" is false and irrelevant: you decide to use the ki point AFTER you already know the monster missed.
So, on the one hand you have a every-round power for "maybe" not all that huge or great extra damage. One the other hand you have a power you can't exactly decide to use each round, but it WILL definitely happen in the fight say every two rounds, especialy in a big boss fight, and when it does you deal GREAT damage with CERTAINTY.
Well, *I* know where I'd spent my ki!
The places where it won't work are:
- Fights vs tons of weak enemies. Mostly irrelevant, just let the caster fireball all these weaklings in one felll swoop.
Don't waste your precious ki on such low challenge fights!
- Fights vs one SOLO boss. Any one of those in which there is a monk becomes super easy because of Stunning Strike spamming. Unless the DM takes that into account and give the boss a ridiculous number of HP and Legendary Resistances, but then, it ain't a "CR appropriate" monster anymore, ain't it? If the DM has to buff a critter SEVERAL levels worth of CR beyond what it should be for a fight vs the party level, just to compensate for ONE ability, that kinda screams "super badly designed power" to me. And if the DM *really* gives all the XP for the ADJUSTED CP or the critter, then you end up with ridiculous situations where the party levels up once or twice per game instead of every 3 or 4 sessions. and iif not, then he's not respecting the design of the CR / EXP system, ergo proof that the balance is bonkers in the first place.
- Fights vs tons of weak enemies with 1 bi boss. Have the caster fireball the weak ones, then it turns into a solo boss fight and Stunning Strike the Boss. Easy fight, same as a 2-stages combo of both of the above.
Then you have the kindd of situations where redirect REALLY shines big time:
- Fights vs one super high AC nearly untouchable boss surrounded by tougher monsters. Especially if the boss somehow always makes you attack him with Disadvantage, too, and his servants are don't hit all that good in the first place and are relatively easy to impose Disadvantage on, but when they do hit ooh boy it hurts a lot. Surprisingly those situations are not all that rare. In those siituatioins, you ki point is worth easily THREE TIMES as much as if you used it up on a flurry.
Then you have the obvious stupid "PC assit" high-level combo:
Rogue says he attacks the monk with a toothpick, ussing STR instead of DEX (lower hit chance) with a weaon he's not proficient in (even lower hit chance) and with his eyes closed (to make double sure to miss). If he hits the monk, her THEN chooses NOT to appply Sneak Attack damage on that attack, thus dealing ridiculously tiny ignorable damage to the monk. But very probably he will miss, thus hit the boss instead, THEN deciding to apply sneak, thus baasicallly entriely bypassing the high defense of the boss for mega damage nearly every round.
Meanwhile the monk is ALSO attacking normally.
Can you say "cheese"?
A class that can burn through its special power to be ungodly powerful for a couple rounds, then so-so-weaksauce the entire rest of the time, is not, to me, balanced in any way. Being able to just "nuke" encounters doesn't scream at all "Those are such brilliantly designed rules!" to me. But hey Wizards are even worse lol. Compared to the casters the Monk ain't OP at all.
I think that situation you've described is so niche however that it doesn't make the ability "broken". And it's still limited by ki points (in most games you'll never have a lot more than 10), your Reaction (only once per turn), and the fact that the enemy actually has to miss you (whereas most enemies capable of dealing the crazy damage you describe also have significant to-hit bonuses, so monster B missing enough times to set off the redirect likely isn't happening often. Finally, there are very few big bad boss monsters in the game that have an AC so high that appropriately-leveled players cannot hit them, and most classes have a way of dealing damage to such enemies (whether it's just in rolling with good combat bonuses or getting half damage still on a successful spell save), I'm not totally positive that the one niche in which the redirect is "OP" is ever likely to actually happen.
If you find yourselves up against an un-hittable enemy, you either have a bad DM who thought a boring idea would be really cool, or you have DM that wants to run a non-traditional combat that you have to use creative thinking to get through. In either case, Redirect Attack isn't an exploit, it's working as intended.