I wanted to start this thread for people to share theories on weapon improvements to spice up your arsenals, while adhering to normal rules in D&D. Most will probably need the proficiency in Smith's Tools, or tools related to the work being done.
So, as a starting theory, If I use Smith's Tools to take the ball off a flail, then the chain off the handle, then replace that chain with the 10ft chain you're able to purchase, and reattach the ball, would the range of the flail be extended?
Might not be practical, due to the weight involved, to do that with a Flail, unless you were playing a size Large creature. Would probably have a minimum strength requirement in order to use it. Would probably gain the Heavy property, as well.
On the subject, I was toying with the notion of combining a Warhammer and a War Pick. Before making the attack, you'd have to declare which head you'd use in the swing -- the flat one, or the pointy one. Flat head would deal Bludgeoning, the pointy one Piercing. Ideally it would keep the Versatile property, as well.
You could maybe find a grindstone to shape one end to a reasonable wedge, or use Smith's Tools in town to heat treat and hammer it out to your liking.
And yes, the Heavy property would most likely be added. And you'd probably have to use two hands indoors while in a confined space, with one hand taking up slack on the chain.
And yes, the Heavy property would most likely be added. And you'd probably have to use two hands indoors while in a confined space, with one hand taking up slack on the chain.
This reminds me of Link using that ball and chain in Twilight Princess. Slowed you horribly, so 5' move maximum allowed, but make it a reach weapon.
And yes, the Heavy property would most likely be added. And you'd probably have to use two hands indoors while in a confined space, with one hand taking up slack on the chain.
This reminds me of Link using that ball and chain in Twilight Princess. Slowed you horribly, so 5' move maximum allowed, but make it a reach weapon.
I don't think limiting movement is the right way to go. Especially when there are characters that can easily lift and swing the weight of the weapon.
My favorite thing to do to help diversify my weapons is make them have alternate mechanics. I like the minor quirk table of the DMG for magic weapons. Some are kind of random, but others are quite useful, such as gaining a +2 to initiative checks. I make weapons out of mithril to give them the light property. Theming weapons is essential if you want to diversify your epic dragonslayer from another +2 longsword. Maybe a pickaxe that was forged by dwarven hands is drawn to stone and metal. Perhaps it gives advantage on attacks against creatures in metal armor. Or maybe a rogues dart can be magically coated in poison once a day (A replica of the Dagger of Poison magic item) and doubles as a lock pick.
Also, I've been trying to find a build that works well when fighting with a grappling hook. I was thinking either rogue or monk, but fighter might work as well. Maybe they carry a crossbow and use it like a gun, or perhaps they whirl it around them before throwing it into an enemy 30 feet away.
Vulnerabilities to certain damage types aren't very common in 5e, so carrying around a pickaxe, war hammer and longsword isn't very necessary. I hope 6e includes more weaknesses for monsters (and easier ways to identify them as well).
I don't think I would allow a flail to have the effective range increased 7' as you describe. There would be effective methods of countering the flail in combat for one.
I would allow a weapon, flail or some other, to be "optimized" for a PCs physical characteristics and abilities, that might yield a weapon that was 1 point better in damage than the standard type (so a modified d6 weapon would become a d8 weapon ignoring 8s and rerolling). However I would also raise the cost of such a weapon very much.
Given your flail example, I might have a weapons expert conclude that adding a link to the chain, and increasing the ball and spike size 10% while rebalancing the handle might improve the energy the flail would deliver while not becoming unwieldy for your height, strength and body mass. And I'd charge you an arm and a leg for the advice and construction expertise.
So like most things, I guess it is up to your DM.
I always wondered if a mildly serrated blade would make a better sword. That also would depend on the sword type because fighting with a short sword is a much different process than a claymore. I believe the reason you never heard about a sword of this type is because the manufacture and sharpening maintenance would be too much trouble. But, I believe it would cut through flesh and armor better.
Flails were never very practical weapons to begin with, but there's a reason historical examples have a chain shorter than the handle. A longer chain increases the chances that you'll accidentally strike yourself or a nearby ally, or that the chain will get tangled or caught on something. It also makes the weapon even more of a pain to carry or transport than it already is. If you wanted to bludgeon someone over a longer distance than a mace or flail you'd just use a polearm.
Regarding the war pick and war hammer: Many martial weapons are capable of dealing a second type of damage. Longswords can both cut and thrust, and can be turned around to use as a makeshift hammer if really needed. War hammers and war picks are usually the same thing; if you're going to put a hammer head on a stick you might as well but a spike on the other side too. Spears can double as a quarterstaff, and spears with longer and wider heads trade some trade piercing power for cutting power. Other polearms typically have a cutting side and a spike.
The thing is 5e favors fast, simple, abstract combat rules. It's not trying to be a realistic medieval combat simulation. The differences between bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage rarely matter, so having rules for multiple ways to use weapons doesn't add much value and makes the game more complicated for newbies. D&D is also a game with a fairly complicated magic system, so putting a lot of complexity into weapons overloads spellcasters. That's why cool weapon tricks are typically locked behind class features or feats.
If there's ever a need to use a weapon in a non-standard way I just use the improvised weapon rules, and depending on what they're doing I might let the player keep their proficiency bonus.
The differences between bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage rarely matter, so having rules for multiple ways to use weapons doesn't add much value and makes the game more complicated for newbies.
I can certainly understand and respect that. However, it is apparently meme-able for Rogues encountering enemies that resist Piercing. So while it might not be a common case, it's not an edge case either.
Not really. It's just a meme left over from previous editions.
The Monster Manual has 492 stat blocks¹. Volo's Guide to Monsters added 139. Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes added another 145. Granted, there's some duplicates in there for our purposes due to the different age variations of dragons and NPC stat blocks which, but still. That's a lot of stat blocks.
Guess how many monsters resist piercing damage without resisting all 3 types? Eight. Out of 776 stat blocks. So roughly 1% of all monsters are somewhat harder to stab to death. 7 of them are plants and follow a pretty obvious pattern: if they're some form of tree, they're also resistant to bludgeoning. The trees and awakened shrub are vulnerable (!) to fire too, so while the unprepared Rogue might struggle, it's unlikely the party as a whole will. The leftover monster is the Flameskull, and frankly if you're fighting one of those you have much bigger problems. Like the fact that it can fly, has infinite ranged attacks and can cast Shield and Fireball.
If you're the really paranoid sort, then this is an easy problem to fix. Slings and sling bullets are dirt cheap and the bullets aren't much heavier than arrows. There's your bludgeoning Sneak Attack weapon. A scimitar will work on the 3 tree-type monsters if the DM doesn't let you cut with a knife.
¹This is easy to find out; DDB displays 20 results per page, and searching for all Basic Rules + Monster Manual monsters gives 25 pages, the last of which only has 12 entries. So 24 * 20 + 12 = 492.
A character I created found/was granted a Khopesh, and they are fairly funky. Blade part does slashing damage, blunt back edge at tip does bludgeoning damage. It can also do Piercing damage. That's fairly easy.
I'm trying to figure out how to mechanically add the bit about using the hooked parts of it to hook an opponent's blade and disarm them... Maybe on a 20 on the dice, it can either do double damage, or you can chose to do single damage, and auto disarm the opponent... Or, on a 19 and 20 on the dice, opponent has to do a DEX save or be disarmed. 20 still scores Crit, and double damage... Something like that. Just a super versatile weapon.
A khopesh is kind of an in-between of a sickle and a hand axe. It's really nothing special when it comes to disarming opponents: it's short, top-heavy, and barely protects your hands. Compare that to something like a parrying dagger. Also, if the tip if thick enough to bludgeon someone, it's going to do a poor job of stabbing (and the fact that it's curved doesn't help either.)
DMG chapter 9 does have an optional rule for disarming enemies that works with any weapon if the DM wants to allow that though.
I'm a fan of 3.5 editions mastercraft system...basically mastercraft weapons provide +1 to hit, but not to damage, and any weapon that you plan to enchant needs to be mastercraft quality.
What you are describing I would classify more as tinkering, since you are taking basic weapons and tweaking them in ways as to serve a different purpose. In short I could see the same person trying to design an arrow that breaks a vial full of an airborne pathogen that induces vomiting being the one to increase the reach of a flail.
As to your thought, I'd probably go oldschool again and say that it is an exotic weapon at that point needing a specialized proficiency feat, so anyone using it is no longer proficient and doesn't get to add their proficiency bonus to the roll until they spend a lot of time training in its use.
So, what would the rules be for a weapon with multiple ends be concerning actions in a turn? Do you just implement them as a bonus action, and apply normal damage? Or do you use the offhand weapon rules?
So, what would the rules be for a weapon with multiple ends be concerning actions in a turn? Do you just implement them as a bonus action, and apply normal damage? Or do you use the offhand weapon rules?
I think that would depend logically on the nature of the weapon. The Double Bladed Scimitar has explicit rules -- 1 end uses the Action for 2d4 slashing, the other uses bonus for 1d4 slashing. In the case of my hybrid Warhammer/War Pick, you'd have to declare which head you'd be using when the attack is declared, before rolling to hit.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hello everyone.
I wanted to start this thread for people to share theories on weapon improvements to spice up your arsenals, while adhering to normal rules in D&D.
Most will probably need the proficiency in Smith's Tools, or tools related to the work being done.
So, as a starting theory, If I use Smith's Tools to take the ball off a flail, then the chain off the handle, then replace that chain with the 10ft chain you're able to purchase, and reattach the ball, would the range of the flail be extended?
Might not be practical, due to the weight involved, to do that with a Flail, unless you were playing a size Large creature. Would probably have a minimum strength requirement in order to use it. Would probably gain the Heavy property, as well.
On the subject, I was toying with the notion of combining a Warhammer and a War Pick. Before making the attack, you'd have to declare which head you'd use in the swing -- the flat one, or the pointy one. Flat head would deal Bludgeoning, the pointy one Piercing. Ideally it would keep the Versatile property, as well.
You could maybe find a grindstone to shape one end to a reasonable wedge, or use Smith's Tools in town to heat treat and hammer it out to your liking.
And yes, the Heavy property would most likely be added. And you'd probably have to use two hands indoors while in a confined space, with one hand taking up slack on the chain.
This reminds me of Link using that ball and chain in Twilight Princess. Slowed you horribly, so 5' move maximum allowed, but make it a reach weapon.
I don't think limiting movement is the right way to go. Especially when there are characters that can easily lift and swing the weight of the weapon.
The reach goes without saying.
My favorite thing to do to help diversify my weapons is make them have alternate mechanics. I like the minor quirk table of the DMG for magic weapons. Some are kind of random, but others are quite useful, such as gaining a +2 to initiative checks. I make weapons out of mithril to give them the light property. Theming weapons is essential if you want to diversify your epic dragonslayer from another +2 longsword. Maybe a pickaxe that was forged by dwarven hands is drawn to stone and metal. Perhaps it gives advantage on attacks against creatures in metal armor. Or maybe a rogues dart can be magically coated in poison once a day (A replica of the Dagger of Poison magic item) and doubles as a lock pick.
Also, I've been trying to find a build that works well when fighting with a grappling hook. I was thinking either rogue or monk, but fighter might work as well. Maybe they carry a crossbow and use it like a gun, or perhaps they whirl it around them before throwing it into an enemy 30 feet away.
Vulnerabilities to certain damage types aren't very common in 5e, so carrying around a pickaxe, war hammer and longsword isn't very necessary. I hope 6e includes more weaknesses for monsters (and easier ways to identify them as well).
I don't think I would allow a flail to have the effective range increased 7' as you describe. There would be effective methods of countering the flail in combat for one.
I would allow a weapon, flail or some other, to be "optimized" for a PCs physical characteristics and abilities, that might yield a weapon that was 1 point better in damage than the standard type (so a modified d6 weapon would become a d8 weapon ignoring 8s and rerolling). However I would also raise the cost of such a weapon very much.
Given your flail example, I might have a weapons expert conclude that adding a link to the chain, and increasing the ball and spike size 10% while rebalancing the handle might improve the energy the flail would deliver while not becoming unwieldy for your height, strength and body mass. And I'd charge you an arm and a leg for the advice and construction expertise.
So like most things, I guess it is up to your DM.
I always wondered if a mildly serrated blade would make a better sword. That also would depend on the sword type because fighting with a short sword is a much different process than a claymore. I believe the reason you never heard about a sword of this type is because the manufacture and sharpening maintenance would be too much trouble. But, I believe it would cut through flesh and armor better.
Flails were never very practical weapons to begin with, but there's a reason historical examples have a chain shorter than the handle. A longer chain increases the chances that you'll accidentally strike yourself or a nearby ally, or that the chain will get tangled or caught on something. It also makes the weapon even more of a pain to carry or transport than it already is. If you wanted to bludgeon someone over a longer distance than a mace or flail you'd just use a polearm.
Regarding the war pick and war hammer: Many martial weapons are capable of dealing a second type of damage. Longswords can both cut and thrust, and can be turned around to use as a makeshift hammer if really needed. War hammers and war picks are usually the same thing; if you're going to put a hammer head on a stick you might as well but a spike on the other side too. Spears can double as a quarterstaff, and spears with longer and wider heads trade some trade piercing power for cutting power. Other polearms typically have a cutting side and a spike.
The thing is 5e favors fast, simple, abstract combat rules. It's not trying to be a realistic medieval combat simulation. The differences between bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage rarely matter, so having rules for multiple ways to use weapons doesn't add much value and makes the game more complicated for newbies. D&D is also a game with a fairly complicated magic system, so putting a lot of complexity into weapons overloads spellcasters. That's why cool weapon tricks are typically locked behind class features or feats.
If there's ever a need to use a weapon in a non-standard way I just use the improvised weapon rules, and depending on what they're doing I might let the player keep their proficiency bonus.
I can certainly understand and respect that. However, it is apparently meme-able for Rogues encountering enemies that resist Piercing. So while it might not be a common case, it's not an edge case either.
Not really. It's just a meme left over from previous editions.
The Monster Manual has 492 stat blocks¹. Volo's Guide to Monsters added 139. Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes added another 145. Granted, there's some duplicates in there for our purposes due to the different age variations of dragons and NPC stat blocks which, but still. That's a lot of stat blocks.
Guess how many monsters resist piercing damage without resisting all 3 types? Eight. Out of 776 stat blocks. So roughly 1% of all monsters are somewhat harder to stab to death. 7 of them are plants and follow a pretty obvious pattern: if they're some form of tree, they're also resistant to bludgeoning. The trees and awakened shrub are vulnerable (!) to fire too, so while the unprepared Rogue might struggle, it's unlikely the party as a whole will. The leftover monster is the Flameskull, and frankly if you're fighting one of those you have much bigger problems. Like the fact that it can fly, has infinite ranged attacks and can cast Shield and Fireball.
If you're the really paranoid sort, then this is an easy problem to fix. Slings and sling bullets are dirt cheap and the bullets aren't much heavier than arrows. There's your bludgeoning Sneak Attack weapon. A scimitar will work on the 3 tree-type monsters if the DM doesn't let you cut with a knife.
¹This is easy to find out; DDB displays 20 results per page, and searching for all Basic Rules + Monster Manual monsters gives 25 pages, the last of which only has 12 entries. So 24 * 20 + 12 = 492.
A character I created found/was granted a Khopesh, and they are fairly funky. Blade part does slashing damage, blunt back edge at tip does bludgeoning damage. It can also do Piercing damage. That's fairly easy.
I'm trying to figure out how to mechanically add the bit about using the hooked parts of it to hook an opponent's blade and disarm them... Maybe on a 20 on the dice, it can either do double damage, or you can chose to do single damage, and auto disarm the opponent...
Or, on a 19 and 20 on the dice, opponent has to do a DEX save or be disarmed. 20 still scores Crit, and double damage... Something like that. Just a super versatile weapon.
A khopesh is kind of an in-between of a sickle and a hand axe. It's really nothing special when it comes to disarming opponents: it's short, top-heavy, and barely protects your hands. Compare that to something like a parrying dagger. Also, if the tip if thick enough to bludgeon someone, it's going to do a poor job of stabbing (and the fact that it's curved doesn't help either.)
DMG chapter 9 does have an optional rule for disarming enemies that works with any weapon if the DM wants to allow that though.
I'm a fan of 3.5 editions mastercraft system...basically mastercraft weapons provide +1 to hit, but not to damage, and any weapon that you plan to enchant needs to be mastercraft quality.
What you are describing I would classify more as tinkering, since you are taking basic weapons and tweaking them in ways as to serve a different purpose. In short I could see the same person trying to design an arrow that breaks a vial full of an airborne pathogen that induces vomiting being the one to increase the reach of a flail.
As to your thought, I'd probably go oldschool again and say that it is an exotic weapon at that point needing a specialized proficiency feat, so anyone using it is no longer proficient and doesn't get to add their proficiency bonus to the roll until they spend a lot of time training in its use.
So, what would the rules be for a weapon with multiple ends be concerning actions in a turn? Do you just implement them as a bonus action, and apply normal damage? Or do you use the offhand weapon rules?
I think that would depend logically on the nature of the weapon. The Double Bladed Scimitar has explicit rules -- 1 end uses the Action for 2d4 slashing, the other uses bonus for 1d4 slashing. In the case of my hybrid Warhammer/War Pick, you'd have to declare which head you'd be using when the attack is declared, before rolling to hit.