For example, Gift of Gab says it affects anyone you chose within 5ft of you when you cast the spell.
Which to me is not a very good distance for an out of combat spell. However, when I brought this up in another post, someone pointed out that the range would actually be something like 78 feet because that would be the square footage of the spell (π × 5²). But I don't actually recall reading anything like that in either the Dungeon masters guide or the player's handbook.
Is this actually a thing, or do spells Gift of Gab really have a very limited range of anyone within 5 feet of you?
If it says 5ft then it's 5ft. It's a social encounter, you're talking to someone, or some people, do you really want to shout out a spell across a room?
No, but if it's really only 5 ft in a social counter it is pretty pointless unless you are whispering... I don't know about you but most people can hear me having a conversation without me yelling at them and they are clearly more than 5ft away.
For example, if you were talking to a king or priest on a road or someone who matters who you would want to use this particular spell on you might not be within 5 feet of them. Shoot, this spell wouldn't work if you were talking to someone on the other side of a dirt road unless it was a very narrow road.
Honestly, I would be more forgiving of the very short range, but its a second level spell slot and requires 2 gold every time you use it... 5ft just seems kinda pointless. I could simply cast Suggestion and suggest that they forgive my rudeness. Which uses the same spell level, has zero gold requirement and will essentially have the same result. I guess Gift of Gab has the advantage that it doesn't require a save, but it also isn't nearly as powerful as Suggestion
The casting time (reaction during conversation), range, and description of this spell makes it clear what it should be used for. 5ft means someone occupying the space (or square on a grid) next to you. Or, in more narrative terms, someone you're directly having a conversation with, face to face - not across a room, not from a stage or pulpit, not across a dirt road.
Remember the spell only reaches out for 5ft - and it's not "anyone" — you choose the targets. That doesn't mean your conversation only reaches 5ft. Someone on the otherside of the room would still hear you, if you were speaking loudly enough. Just as someone would see you stabbing someone with a sword - which also has a 5ft reach.
Absolutely not pointless. It's a powerful spell - no save, and able to completely avoid the ramifications of a failed persuasion check or intimidate? How about getting information out of someone, and then replacing the memory of the conversation to something completely different. Or how about replacing the offer the merchant made, with one much lower? "...Yes... I did say you could have the potion for free... didn't I?
Absolutely not pointless. It's a powerful spell - no save, and able to completely avoid the ramifications of a failed persuasion check or intimidate? How about getting information out of someone, and then replacing the memory of the conversation to something completely different. Or how about replacing the offer the merchant made, with one much lower? "...Yes... I did say you could have the potion for free... didn't I?
I would like to clarify something the spell doesn't replace a conversation you had... it causes the targets to forgets everything you said not everything they said, which wouldn't allow you to convince a merchant that he told you you could have it for a cheaper price, he would still remember the price he said, you may have just said, "Go screw yourself" and be able to cast the spell and change your words to, "Now come on we can work something out". As for the other example, if I got information out of someone they would still remember the things they told me.
basically, all this spell does is let you avoid a failed check, which I can basically do with the feat Lucky and that would actually affect everyone who heard me. Now don't get me wrong I could still fail my check after Lucky but I have a good chance of not doing so.
In short, all of your examples of why this spell is powerful are basically a misunderstanding of the spell and not something you can do, the only thing this spell lets you really do is avoid a bad skill check when in a conversation with someone right near you. Which still makes it an okay spell, but not a good spell. Because if I am honest, most of my important conversations where I would want to use this spell would be with people who I most likely wouldn't be able to be 5 feet from. Such as kings/queens, priest, and even the big bads.
Here let me put it this way to explain why this spell's range is bad in my opinion. You can't use it on a person sitting on a horse unless you are within 1 foot of that horse. Given that the average horse stands 4.7 – 6 ft tall. Basically meaning you have be mounting the horse to be able to use this spell on someone riding a horse... How does that not seem ridiculous to anyone else?
Here let me put it this way to explain why this spell's range is bad in my opinion. You can't use it on a person sitting on a horse unless you are within 1 foot of that horse. Given that the average horse stands 4.7 – 6 ft tall. Basically meaning you have be mounting the horse to be able to use this spell on someone riding a horse... How does that not seem ridiculous to anyone else?
If you are standing in the square just next to someone who is on a horse, then both the rider and the horse are within 5ft. Someone on a horse might only be out of reach if the horse is rearing up and the rider is balancing on one foot perched on the horse's head. Generally, I would not advise trying to engage in conversation with someone performing such Acrobatics.
The range of this spell covers any creature where you could imagine both of you reaching out and being able to shake hands. Normal personal conversation distance. That includes riders on a horse next to you, but maybe not people yelling down to you from atop their elephant.
Apologies on misunderstanding the spell - I do not have Acquisitons Incorporated. Regardless, the point of this thread was to discuss how 5ft is a pointless range - which it isn't. Just as a range of 'touch' isn't a pointless range. It denotes the context of how the spell should be used - Gift of Gab is a spell for when you're directly next to somebody. Normally, this would be a 'touch' spell, but this spell makes an exception, due to the flavour of it being your words as the verbal component.
Whether you think that is worth having a touch spell that allows you to 'do-over' your last 6 seconds of conversation is for you to decide - as with many spells, it's situational.
Your example regarding a horse is missing the point: the spell is designed to be used in a conversation with somebody that you're next to. Would you rule that you can't attack somebody on horseback with a sword, because your reach is only 5ft? You need to view spell ranges from a more mechanical standpoint. It specifies 5ft, to avoid the grey area of saying 'next to' - and for when using a grid map, in which each square is 5ft. As I mentioned, if you think that makes the spell pointless, then don't use it - but it would have been created that way with mechanics and balance in mind.
Except if you yell it as the "!" point implies more than just the emperor would here you. Also, as I have stated before unless you have a really good relationship with the emperor you are more than likely not going to be having a conversation with him where you are within 5 feet of him. In most cases, you will probably have him 10-15 feet away from where there are at least two guards to his side, slightly positioned in front of him.
So this spell might make the guards forget what you said to the Emporer but not that actual Emporer.
However to clarify, this is the exact scenario that I want to be able to use this spell, but given its limited range, it makes it significantly more situational. To be honest, I am not asking for the world, I just think the spell should work at the very least a 15-foot and at the most a 30-foot radius range... but apparently, that is to OP. But I think these ranges would allow you to use this spell in situations like the one you are referencing.
For example, Gift of Gab says it affects anyone you chose within 5ft of you when you cast the spell.
Which to me is not a very good distance for an out of combat spell. However, when I brought this up in another post, someone pointed out that the range would actually be something like 78 feet because that would be the square footage of the spell (π × 5²). But I don't actually recall reading anything like that in either the Dungeon masters guide or the player's handbook.
Is this actually a thing, or do spells Gift of Gab really have a very limited range of anyone within 5 feet of you?
If it says 5ft then it's 5ft. It's a social encounter, you're talking to someone, or some people, do you really want to shout out a spell across a room?
No, but if it's really only 5 ft in a social counter it is pretty pointless unless you are whispering... I don't know about you but most people can hear me having a conversation without me yelling at them and they are clearly more than 5ft away.
For example, if you were talking to a king or priest on a road or someone who matters who you would want to use this particular spell on you might not be within 5 feet of them. Shoot, this spell wouldn't work if you were talking to someone on the other side of a dirt road unless it was a very narrow road.
Honestly, I would be more forgiving of the very short range, but its a second level spell slot and requires 2 gold every time you use it... 5ft just seems kinda pointless. I could simply cast Suggestion and suggest that they forgive my rudeness. Which uses the same spell level, has zero gold requirement and will essentially have the same result. I guess Gift of Gab has the advantage that it doesn't require a save, but it also isn't nearly as powerful as Suggestion
The casting time (reaction during conversation), range, and description of this spell makes it clear what it should be used for. 5ft means someone occupying the space (or square on a grid) next to you. Or, in more narrative terms, someone you're directly having a conversation with, face to face - not across a room, not from a stage or pulpit, not across a dirt road.
Remember the spell only reaches out for 5ft - and it's not "anyone" — you choose the targets. That doesn't mean your conversation only reaches 5ft. Someone on the otherside of the room would still hear you, if you were speaking loudly enough. Just as someone would see you stabbing someone with a sword - which also has a 5ft reach.
Absolutely not pointless. It's a powerful spell - no save, and able to completely avoid the ramifications of a failed persuasion check or intimidate? How about getting information out of someone, and then replacing the memory of the conversation to something completely different. Or how about replacing the offer the merchant made, with one much lower? "...Yes... I did say you could have the potion for free... didn't I?
I would like to clarify something the spell doesn't replace a conversation you had... it causes the targets to forgets everything you said not everything they said, which wouldn't allow you to convince a merchant that he told you you could have it for a cheaper price, he would still remember the price he said, you may have just said, "Go screw yourself" and be able to cast the spell and change your words to, "Now come on we can work something out". As for the other example, if I got information out of someone they would still remember the things they told me.
basically, all this spell does is let you avoid a failed check, which I can basically do with the feat Lucky and that would actually affect everyone who heard me. Now don't get me wrong I could still fail my check after Lucky but I have a good chance of not doing so.
In short, all of your examples of why this spell is powerful are basically a misunderstanding of the spell and not something you can do, the only thing this spell lets you really do is avoid a bad skill check when in a conversation with someone right near you. Which still makes it an okay spell, but not a good spell. Because if I am honest, most of my important conversations where I would want to use this spell would be with people who I most likely wouldn't be able to be 5 feet from. Such as kings/queens, priest, and even the big bads.
Here let me put it this way to explain why this spell's range is bad in my opinion. You can't use it on a person sitting on a horse unless you are within 1 foot of that horse. Given that the average horse stands 4.7 – 6 ft tall. Basically meaning you have be mounting the horse to be able to use this spell on someone riding a horse... How does that not seem ridiculous to anyone else?
If you are standing in the square just next to someone who is on a horse, then both the rider and the horse are within 5ft. Someone on a horse might only be out of reach if the horse is rearing up and the rider is balancing on one foot perched on the horse's head. Generally, I would not advise trying to engage in conversation with someone performing such Acrobatics.
The range of this spell covers any creature where you could imagine both of you reaching out and being able to shake hands. Normal personal conversation distance. That includes riders on a horse next to you, but maybe not people yelling down to you from atop their elephant.
Apologies on misunderstanding the spell - I do not have Acquisitons Incorporated. Regardless, the point of this thread was to discuss how 5ft is a pointless range - which it isn't. Just as a range of 'touch' isn't a pointless range. It denotes the context of how the spell should be used - Gift of Gab is a spell for when you're directly next to somebody. Normally, this would be a 'touch' spell, but this spell makes an exception, due to the flavour of it being your words as the verbal component.
Whether you think that is worth having a touch spell that allows you to 'do-over' your last 6 seconds of conversation is for you to decide - as with many spells, it's situational.
Your example regarding a horse is missing the point: the spell is designed to be used in a conversation with somebody that you're next to. Would you rule that you can't attack somebody on horseback with a sword, because your reach is only 5ft? You need to view spell ranges from a more mechanical standpoint. It specifies 5ft, to avoid the grey area of saying 'next to' - and for when using a grid map, in which each square is 5ft. As I mentioned, if you think that makes the spell pointless, then don't use it - but it would have been created that way with mechanics and balance in mind.
I see this spell as a "good lord, the Emperor's naked! I mean..." *poof* "What a unique ensemble you're wearing today, my lord!"
Except if you yell it as the "!" point implies more than just the emperor would here you. Also, as I have stated before unless you have a really good relationship with the emperor you are more than likely not going to be having a conversation with him where you are within 5 feet of him. In most cases, you will probably have him 10-15 feet away from where there are at least two guards to his side, slightly positioned in front of him.
So this spell might make the guards forget what you said to the Emporer but not that actual Emporer.
However to clarify, this is the exact scenario that I want to be able to use this spell, but given its limited range, it makes it significantly more situational. To be honest, I am not asking for the world, I just think the spell should work at the very least a 15-foot and at the most a 30-foot radius range... but apparently, that is to OP. But I think these ranges would allow you to use this spell in situations like the one you are referencing.