Perhaps this is a post that has been seen before, bear with me.
For reference, I am currently a lvl 4 warlock/ lvl 1 sorcerer. I am rather new to D&D, but the group I game with is into their 13th session. We recently leveled to 5, and when we had leveled prior I had taken 1 level in sorcerer to begin multiclassing. Taking the one level in sorcerer, at least on this site, blocked my chance at that point to raise my ability score or take a feat.
I may be interpreting this wrong, and would appreciate some clarity, but from my understanding the ability scores and feats are tied directly to class level and not overall level? Basically, last night when we leveled, I made the comment I would finally be able to take a feat I wanted, but our DM said I shouldn't be taking the feat at 5th level. Yes, I am overall 5th level, but would I not still be level 4 warlock, level 1 sorcerer (4th level being one in which I have an improvement option)?
I read the article, at least here, as far as it pertains to multiclassing, but to me it wasn't terribly clear. It specifically says, "At certain levels, your class gives you the Ability Score Improvement feature." So, this implies it directed by class level and not overall level?
The only way "overall level" applies if when it comes to the amount of XP required for next level, and to calculate the character's proficiency bonus*. Every feature depends on class level.
So if you were Warlock 3/Sorcerer 1 when you were at character level 4, you indeed did not have an Ability Score Improvement, since those happen at Sorcerer level 4, or Warlock level 4.
When you leveled to Warlock 4/Sorcerer 1, you should have had the Ability Score Improvement that comes with being a 4th level Warlock though.
The customization options simply point out that you may take a feat INSTEAD of an Ability Score Improvement, and only if your DM uses those.
I would ask your DM why he said you shouldn't: maybe it was a recomandation (as in, you should improve your stats first), maybe he doesn't want to play with feats, or maybe he misunderstood something.
Hope this clears things up a bit.
*as has been pointed out, cantrips that scales with level also scales with character level, and not class level, see here
Thank you for your confirmation. As I read it, this was exactly as I interpreted it; implying if you were a masochist and took random levels in many different classes, you would cripple yourself by preventing use of certain class features and then having the inability to raise your stats.
We do use feats; none of our casters have yet taken them, but our fighter and (variant human) rogue have already dipped. I personally do not truly have to raise my stats, although I would likely do this above the feat first. My con is 18, my dex 16, and my cha 19, I'd like to cap cha and perhaps con, but I'm not too deficient in that department.
Even if he believes I should have taken the improvement or feat last level, I did not and should then be able to do so now. I will work on trying to make this clear to him, as maybe he was having difficulty in interpreting how this system essentially works.
ASI/Feats are defined explicitly by class levels in 5e on DDB.
There are tables out there which prefer to have the level 4/8/12/16/19 ASIs (i.e., the standard non-fighter/rogue bonus ASIs) earned by character level, but DDB does not currently support this option with their character sheets.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
As stated by those above, ASI's are based upon class level, which is visible if you look at the features chart for each class.
What I would recommend is first determine whether your DM gave you guidance about taking a feat, or denied it. If it is the latter, find out if they houserule the ASI's to be tied to character level instead of class level. If it isnt a houserule, either direct your DM to the class listings on this site (if playing online), or open the Player's Handbook to those listings and show your DM the charts, to help them understand their error.
If, after you do the above, they still do not allow you to take a feat, then you may want to start considering looking for a different DM.
Or just say "Hey, if you houserule ASIs by total character level instead of class level as written, then I'm taking my feat that I should have taken last level."
Then I'd also be that guy and ask "So if you houserule ASIs, how do you account for classes like Fighter that get more ASIs than other classes?"
I think cantrips scale with total character level. So now you’re level 5, they should get a boost.
Wrong topic. This thread is about ASIs, not cantrips.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I think cantrips scale with total character level. So now you’re level , they should get a boost.
Wrong topic. This thread is about ASIs, not cantrips.
Not really, it is about confusion of what happens at class level and what happens at character level. ClementP's first response said that the only things that character level impacted were the amount of XP required to get to the next level and proficiency bonus, Xalthu is correct in that cantrip strength is also related to character level.
As the DM doesn't think a Level 4 warlock, Level 1 sorcerer gets an ASI it is also worth making sure the character gets 2 dice for cantrip damage rolls (or 2 rolls for eldritch blast)
Fair point. I edited my message to add the bit about cantrip, with a source.
I'm starting to wonder though, what are the things that scales with character level, and not specifically class level ? XP to next level, proficiency bonus, cantrip scaling, anything else ? I'm not counting spell slots, because there are really just about a specific multiclassing rule, but I guess you could include them in the list.
Fair point. I edited my message to add the bit about cantrip, with a source.
I'm starting to wonder though, what are the things that scales with character level, and not specifically class level ? XP to next level, proficiency bonus, cantrip scaling, anything else ? I'm not counting spell slots, because there are really just about a specific multiclassing rule, but I guess you could include them in the list.
Nope, just experience points, proficiency bonus, and cantrips.
And spellcasting is the only class feature that stacks/combines (technically channel divinity gains options, but not number of uses).
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Perhaps this is a post that has been seen before, bear with me.
For reference, I am currently a lvl 4 warlock/ lvl 1 sorcerer. I am rather new to D&D, but the group I game with is into their 13th session. We recently leveled to 5, and when we had leveled prior I had taken 1 level in sorcerer to begin multiclassing. Taking the one level in sorcerer, at least on this site, blocked my chance at that point to raise my ability score or take a feat.
I may be interpreting this wrong, and would appreciate some clarity, but from my understanding the ability scores and feats are tied directly to class level and not overall level? Basically, last night when we leveled, I made the comment I would finally be able to take a feat I wanted, but our DM said I shouldn't be taking the feat at 5th level. Yes, I am overall 5th level, but would I not still be level 4 warlock, level 1 sorcerer (4th level being one in which I have an improvement option)?
I read the article, at least here, as far as it pertains to multiclassing, but to me it wasn't terribly clear. It specifically says, "At certain levels, your class gives you the Ability Score Improvement feature." So, this implies it directed by class level and not overall level?
I used this (https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/customization-options), if there's a better resource, please let me know.
The only way "overall level" applies if when it comes to the amount of XP required for next level, and to calculate the character's proficiency bonus*. Every feature depends on class level.
So if you were Warlock 3/Sorcerer 1 when you were at character level 4, you indeed did not have an Ability Score Improvement, since those happen at Sorcerer level 4, or Warlock level 4.
When you leveled to Warlock 4/Sorcerer 1, you should have had the Ability Score Improvement that comes with being a 4th level Warlock though.
The customization options simply point out that you may take a feat INSTEAD of an Ability Score Improvement, and only if your DM uses those.
I would ask your DM why he said you shouldn't: maybe it was a recomandation (as in, you should improve your stats first), maybe he doesn't want to play with feats, or maybe he misunderstood something.
Hope this clears things up a bit.
*as has been pointed out, cantrips that scales with level also scales with character level, and not class level, see here
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Thank you for your confirmation. As I read it, this was exactly as I interpreted it; implying if you were a masochist and took random levels in many different classes, you would cripple yourself by preventing use of certain class features and then having the inability to raise your stats.
We do use feats; none of our casters have yet taken them, but our fighter and (variant human) rogue have already dipped. I personally do not truly have to raise my stats, although I would likely do this above the feat first. My con is 18, my dex 16, and my cha 19, I'd like to cap cha and perhaps con, but I'm not too deficient in that department.
Even if he believes I should have taken the improvement or feat last level, I did not and should then be able to do so now. I will work on trying to make this clear to him, as maybe he was having difficulty in interpreting how this system essentially works.
Feel free to point them to this discussion, but someone getting to level 4 in the Warlock class is definitely eligible for a feat.
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ASI/Feats are defined explicitly by class levels in 5e on DDB.
There are tables out there which prefer to have the level 4/8/12/16/19 ASIs (i.e., the standard non-fighter/rogue bonus ASIs) earned by character level, but DDB does not currently support this option with their character sheets.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
As stated by those above, ASI's are based upon class level, which is visible if you look at the features chart for each class.
What I would recommend is first determine whether your DM gave you guidance about taking a feat, or denied it. If it is the latter, find out if they houserule the ASI's to be tied to character level instead of class level. If it isnt a houserule, either direct your DM to the class listings on this site (if playing online), or open the Player's Handbook to those listings and show your DM the charts, to help them understand their error.
If, after you do the above, they still do not allow you to take a feat, then you may want to start considering looking for a different DM.
Or just say "Hey, if you houserule ASIs by total character level instead of class level as written, then I'm taking my feat that I should have taken last level."
Then I'd also be that guy and ask "So if you houserule ASIs, how do you account for classes like Fighter that get more ASIs than other classes?"
That's an easy fix though, everyone gets a feat at Character Level 4, 8, 12, 16, 19, and Fighters get extra feat at class level 6 and class level 14.
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I think cantrips scale with total character level. So now you’re level 5, they should get a boost.
Wrong topic. This thread is about ASIs, not cantrips.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Not really, it is about confusion of what happens at class level and what happens at character level. ClementP's first response said that the only things that character level impacted were the amount of XP required to get to the next level and proficiency bonus, Xalthu is correct in that cantrip strength is also related to character level.
As the DM doesn't think a Level 4 warlock, Level 1 sorcerer gets an ASI it is also worth making sure the character gets 2 dice for cantrip damage rolls (or 2 rolls for eldritch blast)
Fair point. I edited my message to add the bit about cantrip, with a source.
I'm starting to wonder though, what are the things that scales with character level, and not specifically class level ? XP to next level, proficiency bonus, cantrip scaling, anything else ? I'm not counting spell slots, because there are really just about a specific multiclassing rule, but I guess you could include them in the list.
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Nope, just experience points, proficiency bonus, and cantrips.
And spellcasting is the only class feature that stacks/combines (technically channel divinity gains options, but not number of uses).