I don't think you understand it right... in the video that is... a lot of stuff removes the charm condition. including dispel magic which is used by pretty much all casters. conditions aren't just conditions, they come from spells which a few things removes. charm conditions often comes with other tagged in lines from the descriptions of the spell.
the condition is just barebone. again, its easy to deal with it. a simple level 3 wizard or cleric can deal with it. and once they reach level 5, charm effects never really last long.
there is a reason why nobody wanna take the arcane archer charm arrow. it last only a single round. while making the bbeg not able to hit the wizard or the fighter for a single round is good by itself... its all it really does... the charm condition is strong... it always was... but its not a combat thing. its much stronger for diplomatie then it is for combat.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
This spell is nasty. By targeting lower level NPCs, a caster with two 5th level spell slots has a strong chance of gaining at least one thrall per day, gaining a small army at least 30 strong over the first month. On each captive's 30th day the wizard only needs to say "hold still 1 minute" and recast, replacing any defectors that make their save. They're unlikely to resist as death is a likely result. As has been pointed out, even if the caster dies the spell likely remains in effect for the duration unless properly dispelled.
Strong option for a villain... or else one of those too-little-too-late, "are we the bad guys?" scenarios!
This spell is nasty. By targeting lower level NPCs, a caster with two 5th level spell slots has a strong chance of gaining at least one thrall per day, gaining a small army at least 30 strong over the first month. On each captive's 30th day the wizard only needs to say "hold still 1 minute" and recast, replacing any defectors that make their save. They're unlikely to resist as death is a likely result. As has been pointed out, even if the caster dies the spell likely remains in effect for the duration unless properly dispelled.
Strong option for a villain... or else one of those too-little-too-late, "are we the bad guys?" scenarios!
I am in a campaign where this is the plot, we are thralls of an arch lich that has cast Geas on. He has modified the spell a little so it isn't quite so easy to escape as we hit level 3 (and have enough hit poits to be very likely to survive 5d10 damage (and can heal if someone doesn't). But the first part of the campaign is us doing his bidding and trying to find opportunities to escape the Geas.
This spell is nasty. By targeting lower level NPCs, a caster with two 5th level spell slots has a strong chance of gaining at least one thrall per day, gaining a small army at least 30 strong over the first month. On each captive's 30th day the wizard only needs to say "hold still 1 minute" and recast, replacing any defectors that make their save. They're unlikely to resist as death is a likely result. As has been pointed out, even if the caster dies the spell likely remains in effect for the duration unless properly dispelled.
Strong option for a villain... or else one of those too-little-too-late, "are we the bad guys?" scenarios!
I am in a campaign where this is the plot, we are thralls of an arch lich that has cast Geas on. He has modified the spell a little so it isn't quite so easy to escape as we hit level 3 (and have enough hit poits to be very likely to survive 5d10 damage (and can heal if someone doesn't). But the first part of the campaign is us doing his bidding and trying to find opportunities to escape the Geas.
while it seems pretty overpowered... me and two other groups have realised how easy it it is to ignore or get out of it. but it does make for great stories though. took some of my players about 5 to 6 sessions to realise the NPC they were following was bringing them to a trap because he was geas'ed ! i wouldn't say its useless, it has a lot of uses... but i wouldn't say its ooverpowered. after all beyond level 5, anybody can simply survive it or deal with it. its a high level spell which just lie wind walk, has a very situationnal purpose.
in another group, my bard used it on a student of the school we were in. a rival of another player. forced the npc to follow the player around and help him whatever he says until the player releases him of his quest. of course i did this stealthily and never told the player. so the player had toprotect the npc and thought he just had gotten a squire. like just a change of heart from his rival. eventually i realised the trouble i'm putting the NPC in , so i remove curse on him and just release him.
overall great spell to have fun, but thats about all i can say when you do it on things that are more then level 5.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
Yes, I think the party simply needs to Dispel Magic and we're done. Now, this may give a big bad a head start, but a 30-day control spell isn't really going to happen.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I think a Twilight Domain Cleric could use Channel Divinity Twilight Sanctuary on a creature subject to Geas (doesn't have to be an ally) to remove the Geas' charmed condition as long as that creature is within 30' of the cleric. Am I wrong about this?
I think a Twilight Domain Cleric could use Channel Divinity Twilight Sanctuary on a creature subject to Geas (doesn't have to be an ally) to remove the Geas' charmed condition as long as that creature is within 30' of the cleric. Am I wrong about this?
Nope, that's correct.
Edit: Well, they actually kill the spell completely.
Forgive the Necro, but I have three words for you:
Aberrant Mind Sorcerer
An aberrant Mind gets 2 extra spells per spell level up to level five for free that are Psionic spells. Each level up they can change a psionic spell for another spell of the same level but it must be a Divination or Enchantment spell from the warlock, sorcerer or *wizard* spell list.
Geas is wizard and Enchantment, so can absolutely become a psionic selection, and by 6th level, before you get to even add it, you can use sorcerery points equal to a psionic spell's level to cast it without expending a spell slot AND without verbal and somatic components, so strictly speaking you don't even have to take the subtle spell metamagic to make this build work. Couple that with a sorcerer that takes the telepathic feat to issue the verbal command silently to the target, and take the other 5th level as modify memory and you have a truly silent, almost vampiric ability to manipulate those in power and become the shadow puppeteer of entire empires.
Geas is wizard and Enchantment, so can absolutely become a psionic selection, and by 6th level, before you get to even add it, you can use sorcerery points equal to a psionic spell's level to cast it without expending a spell slot AND without verbal and somatic components, so strictly speaking you don't even have to take the subtle spell metamagic to make this build work. Couple that with a sorcerer that takes the telepathic feat to issue the verbal command silently to the target, and take the other 5th level as modify memory and you have a truly silent, almost vampiric ability to manipulate those in power and become the shadow puppeteer of entire empires.
I'd say there's something of a question mark around this, because if you don't say anything to the target, then how do you issue them with their command(s)?
Really when it comes down to it all you need to do for the spell is talk to someone for a minute, and include some kind of command within what you say, so I don't think it's that hard a spell to cast really, as if it doesn't work then it can just come off as harmless conversation (depends how you phrase the command, as if you suddenly say "You will serve me and do whatever I say" it might come off as strange in polite company). Usually I assume when a character uses geas that they phrase the command within an argument, for example "I have a plan for how you can deal with your enemies, but you will need to do as I tell you".
If the spell doesn't work, no matter, they'll think you're just being a bit pushy and ask for your plan, and if it works they have to do as you tell them (within whatever limits your DM decides, since geas is a very freeform spell).
If you plan to use geas, definitely pick up the Heightened Spell metamagic to force disadvantage. If your DM is allowing the hideously OP silvery barbs spell then you can make it basically impossible for a target to succeed against geas, though we've banned the spell in my groups and so should everyone else, instead we use a toned down version that's still versatile but a lot less broken.
Geas is wizard and Enchantment, so can absolutely become a psionic selection, and by 6th level, before you get to even add it, you can use sorcerery points equal to a psionic spell's level to cast it without expending a spell slot AND without verbal and somatic components, so strictly speaking you don't even have to take the subtle spell metamagic to make this build work. Couple that with a sorcerer that takes the telepathic feat to issue the verbal command silently to the target, and take the other 5th level as modify memory and you have a truly silent, almost vampiric ability to manipulate those in power and become the shadow puppeteer of entire empires.
I'd say there's something of a question mark around this, because if you don't say anything to the target, then how do you issue them with their command(s)?
Really when it comes down to it all you need to do for the spell is talk to someone for a minute, and include some kind of command within what you say, so I don't think it's that hard a spell to cast really, as if it doesn't work then it can just come off as harmless conversation (depends how you phrase the command, as if you suddenly say "You will serve me and do whatever I say" it might come off as strange in polite company). Usually I assume when a character uses geas that they phrase the command within an argument, for example "I have a plan for how you can deal with your enemies, but you will need to do as I tell you".
If the spell doesn't work, no matter, they'll think you're just being a bit pushy and ask for your plan, and if it works they have to do as you tell them (within whatever limits your DM decides, since geas is a very freeform spell).
If you plan to use geas, definitely pick up the Heightened Spell metamagic to force disadvantage. If your DM is allowing the hideously OP silvery barbs spell then you can make it basically impossible for a target to succeed against geas, though we've banned the spell in my groups and so should everyone else, instead we use a toned down version that's still versatile but a lot less broken.
The verbal spell component is a combination of mystic words according to RAW, so I have a hard time imagining someone not freaking out if you stare them straight in the eye and start talking gibberish for a minute. Likewise, seeing as spell components are generally perceptible, creatures generally know when a spell is being cast, unless they do not hear or see it for whatever reason.
Technically, as written, the creature doesn't even need to be able to hear the caster to be affected by the spell. It only needs to be able to understand the caster. This is of course up to interpretation and might just be an oversight, as the wording in the similar Suggestion spell requires the target to both understand and hear the caster.
The verbal spell component is a combination of mystic words according to RAW, so I have a hard time imagining someone not freaking out if you stare them straight in the eye and start talking gibberish for a minute.
I'm not sure I agree on this being RAW.
The usual rule is specific beats general and while "you place a magical command on a creature" is a bit vague, but the fact that the target needs to be able to understand you seems to imply that you have to do this by speaking to it in some form it understands, which would overrule the need for "chanting mystic words" as in the components rules.
Like a lot of charm spells though it's a bit weird, as you could just as easily argue it doesn't say it must hear you, so just seeing the creature could be enough, and somehow the command is communicated telepathically or whatever. Geas in general is one of the least clearly worded spells in the game, but then a lot of charm spells are a little vague, it's part of what makes them fun if your DM is onboard with what you're trying to do with it.
Likewise, seeing as spell components are generally perceptible, creatures generally know when a spell is being cast, unless they do not hear or see it for whatever reason.
Perceptible doesn't have to mean identifiable, but that would depend on the above. Just because a creature can see you pointing a finger to use true strike, doesn't mean it knows that that's what's happening (you could just be pointing at them).
Technically, as written, the creature doesn't even need to be able to hear the caster to be affected by the spell. It only needs to be able to understand the caster. This is of course up to interpretation and might just be an oversight, as the wording in the similar Suggestion spell requires the target to both understand and hear the caster.
This is why I'm not sure about the mystic chanting; it definitely doesn't seem to be the case for suggestion, so I wouldn't expect it to be for geas either, as geas is basically just the levelled up, single target version of the spell. You can't be both chanting mystic words and suggesting a course of action (especially not in six seconds) so I'm pretty sure this is intended to override the general rule on what the vocal component is (it's giving you another one).
"You can't be both chanting mystic words and suggesting a course of action (especially not in six seconds) so I'm pretty sure this is intended to override the general rule on what the vocal component is (it's giving you another one)."
The rules have never been clear on this. For my part, I'll contribute that there's nothing describing how much you can say in a turn, so one could argue there's no limit. If that's accepted, then you can certainly chant and issue a command in the same turn. Even without that, there's nothing describing the length of the chanting. Furthermore, there's nothing to indicate that a spell's description is meant to supersede anything about the general rules of components. I do think it's a reasonable enough way to rule, but it isn't strictly speaking RAW.
Technically, as written, the creature doesn't even need to be able to hear the caster to be affected by the spell. It only needs to be able to understand the caster. This is of course up to interpretation and might just be an oversight, as the wording in the similar Suggestion spell requires the target to both understand and hear the caster.
This is why I'm not sure about the mystic chanting; it definitely doesn't seem to be the case for suggestion, so I wouldn't expect it to be for geas either, as geas is basically just the levelled up, single target version of the spell. You can't be both chanting mystic words and suggesting a course of action (especially not in six seconds) so I'm pretty sure this is intended to override the general rule on what the vocal component is (it's giving you another one).
Well I'd say it makes even less sense that the caster of Geas spends a full minute formulating a single command. Maybe the chanting turns into intelligible sentences when the magic takes effect?
Having said that, I did find a section in the SAC that might support the no-chant interpretation. I believe the below excerpt could suggest that a target that doesn't perceive the material component of a Suggestion spell, will only hear the verbal component, it being the intelligible suggestion in the example. However, as ChoirOfFire mentions, perhaps there is both chanting and intelligible speech.
Do you always know when you’re under the effect of a spell?
You’re aware that a spell is affecting you if it has a perceptible effect or if its text says you’re aware of it (see PHB , under “Targets”). Most spells are obvious. For example, fireball burns you, cure wounds heals you, and command forces you to suddenly do something you didn’t intend. Certain spells are more subtle, yet you become aware of the spell at a time specified in the spell’s description. Charm person and detect thoughts are examples of such spells.
Some spells are so subtle that you might not know you were ever under their effects. A prime example of that sort of spell is suggestion. Assuming you failed to notice the spellcaster casting the spell, you might simply remember the caster saying, “The treasure you’re looking for isn’t here. Go look for it in the room at the top of the next tower.” You failed your saving throw, and off you went to the other tower, thinking it was your idea to go there. You and your companions might deduce that you were beguiled if evidence of the spell is found. It’s ultimately up to the DM whether you discover the presence of inconspicuous spells. Discovery usually comes through the use of skills like Arcana, Investigation, Insight, and Perception or through spells like detect magic.
I always play that Geas is a mere Charm, not Dominated. There is no total control. You like the guy and want to follow his commands, but can decide to 'cheat'. Usually this requires some sophistry, as you must obey the literal command. But if you succeed in this sophistry, twisting the Geas, you still take the damage, which is the main reason why the damage is also listed.
Charmed:
A charmed creature can't attack the charmer or target the charmer with harmful abilities or magical effects.
The charmer has advantage on any ability check to interact socially with the creature.
Examples: You are geased to give all your money away to the poor. You reason that your wife does not have 'your money', so she is poor. Then you give all your money to her.
You immediately take damage, but are successful in giving the money to her.
Note, you risk her divorcing you at that point, but you have successfully defeated the intent of the Geas.
Examples: You are geased to give all your money away to the poor. You reason that your wife does not have 'your money', so she is poor. Then you give all your money to her.
You immediately take damage, but are successful in giving the money to her.
One of the interesting things about geas is that you only take the damage if it "acts in a manner directly counter to your instructions" which gives the target a lot of leeway if you're not specific enough. There's also some wiggle room in terms of the target simply failing to follow your instructions, i.e- it's trying to do as you ask (so not acting directly counter) it's just failing to achieve the result you wanted, e.g- if you ask it to eat all the cakes in a bakery, and it's physically incapable of doing so, but as long as it's trying it won't take the damage. Might take an enormous amount of indigestion damage though.
The other interesting thing with geas is the awareness; if a creature somehow acted counter to your instructions (e.g- if compelled by a different spell or effect) but wasn't aware that it was charmed, then it'd take a bunch of psychic damage, presumably excruciating, and not know why, it might even have to try to rationalise what happened ("probably stress"). Also, even if the creature knows it's charmed, unless it knows how the geas spell works it has no way of knowing that the psychic damage only happens once a day, so that initial pain should be enough to ensure compliance in most cases, unless the creature is really willing to risk more pain (because doing as instructed would be worse).
In general I tend to rule that the more specific the instruction is, the harder it is to become aware you are charmed (to potentially be able to do something about it); usually this is a side effect of being too busy doing as you were instructed. For example, if you are told "dig a moat around my house, taking minimal breaks to eat, drink and rest each day" then you'd be too busy moat digging, drinking/eating and sleeping (there's no real room for freedom), though I might allow a check each day if there's a possibility of the character doing something about it.
But if the instruction is "regard me as a friend and do whatever I tell you for 30 days" then as a DM I'd allow Insight checks against each individual request, with a DC based on the request (anything simple like "fetch me a drink" probably doesn't need a check, as it's a reasonable-ish request from a friend).
Now what you can actually do once aware of being charmed depends on the character; a lot of people treat a Monk's Stillness of Mind as something you can just use to immediately end charm, but I don't believe that's intended, I rule that it requires awareness first, so once you have that you can use it to end the geas, likewise for a Berserker's Mindless Rage (though they just need an excuse to get angry), or a caster using dispel magic on themselves and so-on. But usually it's down to others to figure out that something strange is going on and do something about it. This is why some of my favourite uses of geas are more subtle, such as "write me a nice letter each day that anything outside of the routine happens at court", as there's little reason for the target or people around them to find it strange unless the latter finds out who you're writing to.
people think a charmed creatur eis dominated and will obey every verbal commands... GEAS, Charm MONSTER type things aren't domination, you dont change the persons behavioir nor do you change the way it thinks. you only change so little... they are not domination spells. geas doesn't force your BBEG to become a good person, in the end the BBEG might just ignore you, take the damage once and then just kill you. and then find a way to get rid of the geas which is easy for most BBEG.
the way i am playing it, cause its not explained, is what happens to say a commoner who is unaware that you gave it GEAS. it surely feels compelled to do a task, but its not forced to do it. if it doesn't its mere 1 to 5 hit points are gone and its dieing or dead. so what i say is that a person knows it must perform a task, but also knows of the consequences if it doesn't. and that leads to interesting ways of using it as an evil person.
fun story, my players tryed it onto one of my enchanters who was a merchant... when the person tryed... it got reversed onto himself. because the enchanter was actually an enchanter high level wizard. so the geas was to give away all her precious magical items to this group... and so the player had the choice of taking the damage every day or give all of his magical items to the rest of the group. he thought, yes i will give it all to my friends and they will give it back. cool... that didn't happen, he gave away all his stuff, the others laughed and kept it all for themselves ! it was funny as hell !
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
Geas is traditionally a powerful spell. Though different mechanics in 5E, it still is extremely useful, both for PC's and NPC's alike.
As with every spell, it clearly states what it can do, and the rules clearly state what the conditions mean.
It good to remember (as above) that the Charmed condition isn't the same thing as Charm Person, or Dominate Person, or even Friends. It literally only does what the condition says. A DM might allow more than that, but again, maybe (probably) not.
So the main effect is you get to issue one command. Now that is pretty vague, and technically you can make it as complicate as possible. Any command likely to be certain death (or command of suicide) ends the spell. But like one old edition stated if you command them "to hold off that dragon just for a few moments..." that might just work. This still leaves a TON of things can do. Of course one of the simplest commands is to "Obey any command I give you for the next month/year". Cheesy, sure? But technically it works. As long as you don't break the death command rule. The sky is the limit.
The spell lasts for its listed duration, including the charm, according to RAW. The RAI is less clear, but previous versions had it last until the command was fulfilled. Really, we can all offer our own opinions on how this duration works, but its totally up to each GM alone to rule.
Like all effects that aren't 100% clear, and debate can be had on the forums, and its good to do so, but speaking in absolutes is almost always wrong... the rules are 100% clear, the GM gets the final say. Enjoy! (I geased you to enjoy... make a Will save)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Remember there are Rules as Written (RAW), Rules as Intended (RAI), and Rules as Fun (RAF). There's some great RAW, RAI, and RAF here... please check in with your DM to determine how they want to adjudicate the RAW/RAI/RAF for your game.
i guess the goal of this spell is just to give a desire like : "bring me the holy crown" "never go to the lone tower" etc ... If the target fail the save then the target WANT to do the thing. If the spell don't give the target the will to do a thing it's useless.
i guess the goal of this spell is just to give a desire like : "bring me the holy crown" "never go to the lone tower" etc ... If the target fail the save then the target WANT to do the thing. If the spell don't give the target the will to do a thing it's useless.
What do you mean? They don't need to want to do it, they've been ordered to do it. If the caster didn't have to give the order, then yes, it would just be a weird unknowable trap that would blast the target with psychic damage whenever they did something they couldn't have possibly known not to do, and thus they would need a special self-directed urge in order to make the spell work as intended. But that's not the case. Because the caster gives the orders as part of casting the spell.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I don't think you understand it right... in the video that is...
a lot of stuff removes the charm condition. including dispel magic which is used by pretty much all casters.
conditions aren't just conditions, they come from spells which a few things removes.
charm conditions often comes with other tagged in lines from the descriptions of the spell.
the condition is just barebone.
again, its easy to deal with it. a simple level 3 wizard or cleric can deal with it. and once they reach level 5, charm effects never really last long.
there is a reason why nobody wanna take the arcane archer charm arrow.
it last only a single round. while making the bbeg not able to hit the wizard or the fighter for a single round is good by itself... its all it really does...
the charm condition is strong... it always was... but its not a combat thing. its much stronger for diplomatie then it is for combat.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
This spell is nasty. By targeting lower level NPCs, a caster with two 5th level spell slots has a strong chance of gaining at least one thrall per day, gaining a small army at least 30 strong over the first month. On each captive's 30th day the wizard only needs to say "hold still 1 minute" and recast, replacing any defectors that make their save. They're unlikely to resist as death is a likely result. As has been pointed out, even if the caster dies the spell likely remains in effect for the duration unless properly dispelled.
Strong option for a villain... or else one of those too-little-too-late, "are we the bad guys?" scenarios!
I am in a campaign where this is the plot, we are thralls of an arch lich that has cast Geas on. He has modified the spell a little so it isn't quite so easy to escape as we hit level 3 (and have enough hit poits to be very likely to survive 5d10 damage (and can heal if someone doesn't). But the first part of the campaign is us doing his bidding and trying to find opportunities to escape the Geas.
while it seems pretty overpowered... me and two other groups have realised how easy it it is to ignore or get out of it.
but it does make for great stories though. took some of my players about 5 to 6 sessions to realise the NPC they were following was bringing them to a trap because he was geas'ed !
i wouldn't say its useless, it has a lot of uses... but i wouldn't say its ooverpowered. after all beyond level 5, anybody can simply survive it or deal with it. its a high level spell which just lie wind walk, has a very situationnal purpose.
in another group, my bard used it on a student of the school we were in. a rival of another player. forced the npc to follow the player around and help him whatever he says until the player releases him of his quest. of course i did this stealthily and never told the player. so the player had toprotect the npc and thought he just had gotten a squire. like just a change of heart from his rival. eventually i realised the trouble i'm putting the NPC in , so i remove curse on him and just release him.
overall great spell to have fun, but thats about all i can say when you do it on things that are more then level 5.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
Yes, I think the party simply needs to Dispel Magic and we're done. Now, this may give a big bad a head start, but a 30-day control spell isn't really going to happen.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I think a Twilight Domain Cleric could use Channel Divinity Twilight Sanctuary on a creature subject to Geas (doesn't have to be an ally) to remove the Geas' charmed condition as long as that creature is within 30' of the cleric. Am I wrong about this?
Nope, that's correct.
Edit: Well, they actually kill the spell completely.
Forgive the Necro, but I have three words for you:
Aberrant Mind Sorcerer
An aberrant Mind gets 2 extra spells per spell level up to level five for free that are Psionic spells. Each level up they can change a psionic spell for another spell of the same level but it must be a Divination or Enchantment spell from the warlock, sorcerer or *wizard* spell list.
Geas is wizard and Enchantment, so can absolutely become a psionic selection, and by 6th level, before you get to even add it, you can use sorcerery points equal to a psionic spell's level to cast it without expending a spell slot AND without verbal and somatic components, so strictly speaking you don't even have to take the subtle spell metamagic to make this build work. Couple that with a sorcerer that takes the telepathic feat to issue the verbal command silently to the target, and take the other 5th level as modify memory and you have a truly silent, almost vampiric ability to manipulate those in power and become the shadow puppeteer of entire empires.
I'd say there's something of a question mark around this, because if you don't say anything to the target, then how do you issue them with their command(s)?
Really when it comes down to it all you need to do for the spell is talk to someone for a minute, and include some kind of command within what you say, so I don't think it's that hard a spell to cast really, as if it doesn't work then it can just come off as harmless conversation (depends how you phrase the command, as if you suddenly say "You will serve me and do whatever I say" it might come off as strange in polite company). Usually I assume when a character uses geas that they phrase the command within an argument, for example "I have a plan for how you can deal with your enemies, but you will need to do as I tell you".
If the spell doesn't work, no matter, they'll think you're just being a bit pushy and ask for your plan, and if it works they have to do as you tell them (within whatever limits your DM decides, since geas is a very freeform spell).
If you plan to use geas, definitely pick up the Heightened Spell metamagic to force disadvantage. If your DM is allowing the hideously OP silvery barbs spell then you can make it basically impossible for a target to succeed against geas, though we've banned the spell in my groups and so should everyone else, instead we use a toned down version that's still versatile but a lot less broken.
Characters: Bullette, Chortle, Dracarys Noir, Edward Merryspell, Habard Ashery, Legion, Peregrine
My Homebrew: Feats | Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Races
Guides: Creating Sub-Races Using Trait Options
WIP (feedback needed): Blood Mage, Chromatic Sorcerers, Summoner, Trickster Domain, Unlucky, Way of the Daoist (Drunken Master), Weapon Smith
Please don't reply to my posts unless you've read what they actually say.
The verbal spell component is a combination of mystic words according to RAW, so I have a hard time imagining someone not freaking out if you stare them straight in the eye and start talking gibberish for a minute. Likewise, seeing as spell components are generally perceptible, creatures generally know when a spell is being cast, unless they do not hear or see it for whatever reason.
Technically, as written, the creature doesn't even need to be able to hear the caster to be affected by the spell. It only needs to be able to understand the caster. This is of course up to interpretation and might just be an oversight, as the wording in the similar Suggestion spell requires the target to both understand and hear the caster.
I'm not sure I agree on this being RAW.
The usual rule is specific beats general and while "you place a magical command on a creature" is a bit vague, but the fact that the target needs to be able to understand you seems to imply that you have to do this by speaking to it in some form it understands, which would overrule the need for "chanting mystic words" as in the components rules.
Like a lot of charm spells though it's a bit weird, as you could just as easily argue it doesn't say it must hear you, so just seeing the creature could be enough, and somehow the command is communicated telepathically or whatever. Geas in general is one of the least clearly worded spells in the game, but then a lot of charm spells are a little vague, it's part of what makes them fun if your DM is onboard with what you're trying to do with it.
Perceptible doesn't have to mean identifiable, but that would depend on the above. Just because a creature can see you pointing a finger to use true strike, doesn't mean it knows that that's what's happening (you could just be pointing at them).
This is why I'm not sure about the mystic chanting; it definitely doesn't seem to be the case for suggestion, so I wouldn't expect it to be for geas either, as geas is basically just the levelled up, single target version of the spell. You can't be both chanting mystic words and suggesting a course of action (especially not in six seconds) so I'm pretty sure this is intended to override the general rule on what the vocal component is (it's giving you another one).
Characters: Bullette, Chortle, Dracarys Noir, Edward Merryspell, Habard Ashery, Legion, Peregrine
My Homebrew: Feats | Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Races
Guides: Creating Sub-Races Using Trait Options
WIP (feedback needed): Blood Mage, Chromatic Sorcerers, Summoner, Trickster Domain, Unlucky, Way of the Daoist (Drunken Master), Weapon Smith
Please don't reply to my posts unless you've read what they actually say.
"You can't be both chanting mystic words and suggesting a course of action (especially not in six seconds) so I'm pretty sure this is intended to override the general rule on what the vocal component is (it's giving you another one)."
The rules have never been clear on this. For my part, I'll contribute that there's nothing describing how much you can say in a turn, so one could argue there's no limit. If that's accepted, then you can certainly chant and issue a command in the same turn. Even without that, there's nothing describing the length of the chanting. Furthermore, there's nothing to indicate that a spell's description is meant to supersede anything about the general rules of components. I do think it's a reasonable enough way to rule, but it isn't strictly speaking RAW.
Well I'd say it makes even less sense that the caster of Geas spends a full minute formulating a single command. Maybe the chanting turns into intelligible sentences when the magic takes effect?
Having said that, I did find a section in the SAC that might support the no-chant interpretation. I believe the below excerpt could suggest that a target that doesn't perceive the material component of a Suggestion spell, will only hear the verbal component, it being the intelligible suggestion in the example. However, as ChoirOfFire mentions, perhaps there is both chanting and intelligible speech.
I always play that Geas is a mere Charm, not Dominated. There is no total control. You like the guy and want to follow his commands, but can decide to 'cheat'. Usually this requires some sophistry, as you must obey the literal command. But if you succeed in this sophistry, twisting the Geas, you still take the damage, which is the main reason why the damage is also listed.
Charmed:
Examples: You are geased to give all your money away to the poor. You reason that your wife does not have 'your money', so she is poor. Then you give all your money to her.
You immediately take damage, but are successful in giving the money to her.
Note, you risk her divorcing you at that point, but you have successfully defeated the intent of the Geas.
One of the interesting things about geas is that you only take the damage if it "acts in a manner directly counter to your instructions" which gives the target a lot of leeway if you're not specific enough. There's also some wiggle room in terms of the target simply failing to follow your instructions, i.e- it's trying to do as you ask (so not acting directly counter) it's just failing to achieve the result you wanted, e.g- if you ask it to eat all the cakes in a bakery, and it's physically incapable of doing so, but as long as it's trying it won't take the damage. Might take an enormous amount of indigestion damage though.
The other interesting thing with geas is the awareness; if a creature somehow acted counter to your instructions (e.g- if compelled by a different spell or effect) but wasn't aware that it was charmed, then it'd take a bunch of psychic damage, presumably excruciating, and not know why, it might even have to try to rationalise what happened ("probably stress"). Also, even if the creature knows it's charmed, unless it knows how the geas spell works it has no way of knowing that the psychic damage only happens once a day, so that initial pain should be enough to ensure compliance in most cases, unless the creature is really willing to risk more pain (because doing as instructed would be worse).
In general I tend to rule that the more specific the instruction is, the harder it is to become aware you are charmed (to potentially be able to do something about it); usually this is a side effect of being too busy doing as you were instructed. For example, if you are told "dig a moat around my house, taking minimal breaks to eat, drink and rest each day" then you'd be too busy moat digging, drinking/eating and sleeping (there's no real room for freedom), though I might allow a check each day if there's a possibility of the character doing something about it.
But if the instruction is "regard me as a friend and do whatever I tell you for 30 days" then as a DM I'd allow Insight checks against each individual request, with a DC based on the request (anything simple like "fetch me a drink" probably doesn't need a check, as it's a reasonable-ish request from a friend).
Now what you can actually do once aware of being charmed depends on the character; a lot of people treat a Monk's Stillness of Mind as something you can just use to immediately end charm, but I don't believe that's intended, I rule that it requires awareness first, so once you have that you can use it to end the geas, likewise for a Berserker's Mindless Rage (though they just need an excuse to get angry), or a caster using dispel magic on themselves and so-on. But usually it's down to others to figure out that something strange is going on and do something about it. This is why some of my favourite uses of geas are more subtle, such as "write me a nice letter each day that anything outside of the routine happens at court", as there's little reason for the target or people around them to find it strange unless the latter finds out who you're writing to.
Characters: Bullette, Chortle, Dracarys Noir, Edward Merryspell, Habard Ashery, Legion, Peregrine
My Homebrew: Feats | Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Races
Guides: Creating Sub-Races Using Trait Options
WIP (feedback needed): Blood Mage, Chromatic Sorcerers, Summoner, Trickster Domain, Unlucky, Way of the Daoist (Drunken Master), Weapon Smith
Please don't reply to my posts unless you've read what they actually say.
people think a charmed creatur eis dominated and will obey every verbal commands... GEAS, Charm MONSTER type things aren't domination, you dont change the persons behavioir nor do you change the way it thinks. you only change so little... they are not domination spells. geas doesn't force your BBEG to become a good person, in the end the BBEG might just ignore you, take the damage once and then just kill you. and then find a way to get rid of the geas which is easy for most BBEG.
the way i am playing it, cause its not explained, is what happens to say a commoner who is unaware that you gave it GEAS. it surely feels compelled to do a task, but its not forced to do it. if it doesn't its mere 1 to 5 hit points are gone and its dieing or dead. so what i say is that a person knows it must perform a task, but also knows of the consequences if it doesn't. and that leads to interesting ways of using it as an evil person.
fun story, my players tryed it onto one of my enchanters who was a merchant... when the person tryed... it got reversed onto himself. because the enchanter was actually an enchanter high level wizard. so the geas was to give away all her precious magical items to this group... and so the player had the choice of taking the damage every day or give all of his magical items to the rest of the group. he thought, yes i will give it all to my friends and they will give it back. cool... that didn't happen, he gave away all his stuff, the others laughed and kept it all for themselves ! it was funny as hell !
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
if cast at ninth level it last until dispelled
Some good points here and interest thoughts.
Geas is traditionally a powerful spell. Though different mechanics in 5E, it still is extremely useful, both for PC's and NPC's alike.
As with every spell, it clearly states what it can do, and the rules clearly state what the conditions mean.
It good to remember (as above) that the Charmed condition isn't the same thing as Charm Person, or Dominate Person, or even Friends. It literally only does what the condition says. A DM might allow more than that, but again, maybe (probably) not.
So the main effect is you get to issue one command. Now that is pretty vague, and technically you can make it as complicate as possible. Any command likely to be certain death (or command of suicide) ends the spell. But like one old edition stated if you command them "to hold off that dragon just for a few moments..." that might just work. This still leaves a TON of things can do. Of course one of the simplest commands is to "Obey any command I give you for the next month/year". Cheesy, sure? But technically it works. As long as you don't break the death command rule. The sky is the limit.
The spell lasts for its listed duration, including the charm, according to RAW. The RAI is less clear, but previous versions had it last until the command was fulfilled. Really, we can all offer our own opinions on how this duration works, but its totally up to each GM alone to rule.
Like all effects that aren't 100% clear, and debate can be had on the forums, and its good to do so, but speaking in absolutes is almost always wrong... the rules are 100% clear, the GM gets the final say. Enjoy! (I geased you to enjoy... make a Will save)
Remember there are Rules as Written (RAW), Rules as Intended (RAI), and Rules as Fun (RAF). There's some great RAW, RAI, and RAF here... please check in with your DM to determine how they want to adjudicate the RAW/RAI/RAF for your game.
i guess the goal of this spell is just to give a desire like : "bring me the holy crown" "never go to the lone tower" etc ... If the target fail the save then the target WANT to do the thing. If the spell don't give the target the will to do a thing it's useless.
What do you mean? They don't need to want to do it, they've been ordered to do it. If the caster didn't have to give the order, then yes, it would just be a weird unknowable trap that would blast the target with psychic damage whenever they did something they couldn't have possibly known not to do, and thus they would need a special self-directed urge in order to make the spell work as intended. But that's not the case. Because the caster gives the orders as part of casting the spell.