One thing to note - Wish ISN'T actually a lawyer-spell where your character gets exactly what they wished for and they better have worded it right. The description of the wish says
You might be able to achieve something beyond the scope of the above examples. State your wish to the DM as precisely as possible. The DM has great latitude in ruling what occurs in such an instance, the greater the wish, the greater the likelihood that something goes wrong. This spell might simply fail, the effect you desire might only be partly achieved, or you might suffer some unforeseen consequence as a result of how you worded the wish.
First, while you need to state your wish to the DM as precisely as you can, that's an out-of-character thing so your DM understands. And second, that phrasing does NOT actually bind the wish spell to do exactly what you say! The wish could fail, or something else could happen, or it could go wrong, *regardless* of how you phrase it. "Some unforseen consequence as a result of how you worded it" is just one of the possible ways it can go wrong.
So a Wizard speaking very precise words doesn't really have any intrinsic reason why their Wish would work better than the Wish of a charismatic sorcerer. In either way it's whatever the DM wants.
It seems like you want to use charisma in lieu of intelligence, but it shouldn’t work like that. They’re different things, you can’t sub one for the other. Could a fighter granted a wish somehow use its strength or a rogue it’s dex? Having a strong personality isn’t the same as constructing an argument.
It seems like you want to use charisma in lieu of intelligence, but it shouldn’t work like that. They’re different things, you can’t sub one for the other. Could a fighter granted a wish somehow use its strength or a rogue it’s dex? Having a strong personality isn’t the same as constructing an argument.
There are sooo many people in this world who need to learn these words.
It seems like you want to use charisma in lieu of intelligence, but it shouldn’t work like that. They’re different things, you can’t sub one for the other. Could a fighter granted a wish somehow use its strength or a rogue it’s dex? Having a strong personality isn’t the same as constructing an argument.
Except that for sorcerer's casting having a high Charisma is absolutely paramount. And the argument wasn't that sorcerer while not as smart as a wizard can construct a legal argument as good as wizard's argument would be. The argument was that while casting wish both casting abilities should be equal. That somehow his innate magic would balance the deficiency he has over wizard's smarts.
After some other discussions on a different site, I have come to the conclusion that the whole argument I presented is based on the wrong premise.
If we look at the spell. We have to focus on these two sentences:
"By simply speaking aloud, you can alter the very foundations of reality in accord with your desires." and "State your wish to the DM as precisely as possible."
You as a character speak your wish and then you as a player tell DM what you want to happen. That means that stating the specifics of a Wish is done out of character. The wording of Wish, in this case, loses its meaning because now it entirely depends on your DM if he grants you the Wish or not. It does not matter if you are a smart wizard or charismatic sorcerer. You are stating specifics of the Wish as a player to DM hence talking about it with DM is even more important. So instead page long Wish you can just ca ask your DM: "Hey mate, my character would like to become full dragon." And he either lets it happend or not.
That’s exactly right - but while the mechanics are resolved out of game (just like rolling dice to determine the damage of magic missile), your DM might make their ruling based on various in game factors.
Its good that you’ve come to the conclusion that you can’t out smart the DM with an ironclad legal document - it’s a far more simple affair!
So this character started working on this since level three? Is the character mentally handicapped, because if not, he has more than enough time to go over this, over and over again to get it right. You don't need to be a genius if you have enough time to work on it and research exactly how to word it. Is not like you're doing this overnight. Does your character have any intelligent friends he trusts to bounce the wording off of? Heck, does he have the funds to hire an actual lawyer? I mean, your character may not be a genius, but he has a high charisma, and with that he can easily convince the right people to give him the help he needs. You have a high charisma, so I assume your character isn't an introvert.
One thing to note - Wish ISN'T actually a lawyer-spell where your character gets exactly what they wished for and they better have worded it right. The description of the wish says
First, while you need to state your wish to the DM as precisely as you can, that's an out-of-character thing so your DM understands. And second, that phrasing does NOT actually bind the wish spell to do exactly what you say! The wish could fail, or something else could happen, or it could go wrong, *regardless* of how you phrase it. "Some unforseen consequence as a result of how you worded it" is just one of the possible ways it can go wrong.
So a Wizard speaking very precise words doesn't really have any intrinsic reason why their Wish would work better than the Wish of a charismatic sorcerer. In either way it's whatever the DM wants.
It seems like you want to use charisma in lieu of intelligence, but it shouldn’t work like that. They’re different things, you can’t sub one for the other. Could a fighter granted a wish somehow use its strength or a rogue it’s dex? Having a strong personality isn’t the same as constructing an argument.
There are sooo many people in this world who need to learn these words.
Except that for sorcerer's casting having a high Charisma is absolutely paramount. And the argument wasn't that sorcerer while not as smart as a wizard can construct a legal argument as good as wizard's argument would be. The argument was that while casting wish both casting abilities should be equal. That somehow his innate magic would balance the deficiency he has over wizard's smarts.
After some other discussions on a different site, I have come to the conclusion that the whole argument I presented is based on the wrong premise.
If we look at the spell. We have to focus on these two sentences:
"By simply speaking aloud, you can alter the very foundations of reality in accord with your desires." and "State your wish to the DM as precisely as possible."
You as a character speak your wish and then you as a player tell DM what you want to happen. That means that stating the specifics of a Wish is done out of character. The wording of Wish, in this case, loses its meaning because now it entirely depends on your DM if he grants you the Wish or not. It does not matter if you are a smart wizard or charismatic sorcerer. You are stating specifics of the Wish as a player to DM hence talking about it with DM is even more important. So instead page long Wish you can just ca ask your DM: "Hey mate, my character would like to become full dragon." And he either lets it happend or not.
That’s exactly right - but while the mechanics are resolved out of game (just like rolling dice to determine the damage of magic missile), your DM might make their ruling based on various in game factors.
Its good that you’ve come to the conclusion that you can’t out smart the DM with an ironclad legal document - it’s a far more simple affair!
But remember - state it as precisely as possible!
So this character started working on this since level three? Is the character mentally handicapped, because if not, he has more than enough time to go over this, over and over again to get it right. You don't need to be a genius if you have enough time to work on it and research exactly how to word it. Is not like you're doing this overnight. Does your character have any intelligent friends he trusts to bounce the wording off of? Heck, does he have the funds to hire an actual lawyer? I mean, your character may not be a genius, but he has a high charisma, and with that he can easily convince the right people to give him the help he needs. You have a high charisma, so I assume your character isn't an introvert.